Last Notes
"I'm going to forge ahead anyhow."
Translation: The push back is not compelling.
Yeah, not sure if the seller was using Shopstr for DMing me. May have been, or may have been using another client with NIP-17 DMs.
Either way, even after providing tools that allow media to be encrypted, users will still need to take advantage of it. I could 100% still see some users uploading directly to a public Blossom server and copy/pasting the URL into the DM, thinking they're all good because DMs are encrypted.
Not really anything that can be done about that.
and a good UX?
https://i.nostr.build/V0FI2Pmufr35q1Ng.webp
If only there was a private non custodial solution with low fees.
just kinda weird that we're going to unnecessarily have these centralized custodial solutions
and then make a bunch of posts like
"but wait, how are we going to vett these trusted 3rd parties???"
Nonsense. It gives a false sense of trust. Easy to pass these "audits" and still rug users.
None of this can stop the rugpull.
Thanks! I’ll be gearing up for this in the coming weeks.
@nprofile…en5z @nprofile…jvcm NIP-17 DMs should use Kind 15 for encrypted images. Maybe you need an update. Check the NIP, this was added later.
Silly question - could NIP44 be used for encrypted media? I haven’t really dug into media yet. I expect to use blossom but only if I can encrypt.
For #nostr #safebox I am thinking of defining an encrypted blob type for storing docs, imaging data etc. Just starting so keen to go down the right path on this one.
It's fine. You're working on encrypted media in private communities and DMs right now, right? That's HUGE!
Example: I had purchased something via Shopstr and the seller sent me a screenshot back, confirming my address before shipping to me. Thing is, he was using nostr.build for media hosting and so, even though the image was sent in a DM, it was not encrypted and was there for all the world to see in nostr.build's free image gallery.
Thankfully the guys over there at nostr.build were quick to take it down at my request, but it's a good lesson in why we NEED encrypted media in DMs.
Interop for muted words can wait.
Thank you sir!
I really think this encrypted mute list issue may be more of a source of the mutes not working in Pokey than the relay issue. Most users have at least one relay they use as both inbox and outbox, so the chances are that Pokey is finding the mute list just fine.
However, I would wager that a vast majority of Pokey users are also using Amethyst, which is encrypting ALL mute entries. If Pokey isn't able to see those mute entries, then no wonder people are still getting Pokey notifications from people they have muted in Amethyst.
You mean "thorn in the side"? 😂
I only noticed this discrepancy between clients because with all the adding of muted words to banish the reply spam lately, I saw that adding a muted word in Amethyst didn't translate to it being muted in other clients, even if they supported muted words.
Me being me, I had to dig into it and find out why that was the case.
Thank you for the response with insight into your reasoning for going the route you have with Nostur.
I think I would disagree with the approach, but I definitely understand why you have gone that route.
That said, I do fully agree that a mute list is data that does not need to be public. At the same time, I also see the value of having certain types of mutes public, such as muted scammers and spammers, so that those who have me in their WoT can also benefit from my having muted a scammer or spammer, even if they have not yet done so.
When it comes to "let relays be relays, not personal storage," I think you might have a case if we were talking about using relays for storing media or something. But we're not. We're talking about storing a long-standing standard event kind that is defined in a merged NIP and utilized by most major clients. Moreover, if public relays are not on-board with storing that information, they can reject that event kind.
You mentioned that "last seen" metadata is still leaked, even in encrypted lists. I am not familiar with that means. Does the npub that was muted somehow have leaked to them that you muted them, even when the entry is encrypted?
The temporary blocking/muting I absolutely understand needing to do locally. I agree that there is probably not another way to do it. However, other clients, such as Damus and Nostrudel have temporary mute options while also utilizing kind 10000 for permanent mutes. My guess is they do the temporary mutes locally, and honestly, a user probably wouldn't want temporary mutes used for influencing other users' WoT filters anyway.
In my testing so far, the only culprit that nuked my mute list was Primal, and it didn't nuke the whole thing, only the encrypted mutes. There will be no nuking of mute lists if clients are all on the same page about what sort of content should be expected to be found in the list, and then including that data when replacing the previous list, even if their client doesn't use the data for anything.
I am definitely liking your approach to doing a lot locally, and having a manual option to "announce," such as how you implemented the relay settings. I have seen it be a bit confusing for users, but having that ability to read from or write to relays you haven't announced in your kind 10002 is ideal. Moreover, I feel like Nostur is aiming at being a gorgeous client for power-users, rather than a dumbed down client for newly hatched nostriches. Take that approach with mute lists, too, as mentioned above, and I would say that's a near perfect approach.
How do you plan to handle the encrypted data in the kind 10000 at the time of import, if there is any? Decrypt it and store it locally and on iCloud unencrypted? Ignore it so that only publicly listed mutes will be muted in Nostur after import? Import it and use it, since the user presumably would not want to see notes from those they have muted, even if they did so through a client that stores the entry encrypted?
Whatever approach you take, when "announcing" the mute list that is stored locally, is there a way to make sure that Nostur only adds the local mutes to the new list, without removing entries (particularly encrypted entries) that are already on the standard list? It would be a shame to announce some mutes that were added on Nostur only to lose half of the mutes added in other clients that use the kind 10000 directly.
Well said. This is the way nature does it. We are bound by that system, nothing wrong with it. Each layer provides space and opportunity for growth, timing based on when it's right for that person. That's where the value lies.
> @npub1n0s…lahe, can you provide some insight into how Nostur is handling mutes/blocks, and why it doesn't seem to be using kind 10000?
Yes Nostur saves who you block on your device and iCloud, several reasons for this:
- I prefer to keep any data that doesn't need to be public away from public servers (let relays be relays, not personal storage)
- When using standard lists even when encrypted, meta data is leaked and reveals "Last seen"
- I also needed block for X hours/days etc, not sure thats even possible with current nostr lists
- Other clients nuking follow lists all over the place did not give me confidence to use a similar list without having the same problems
Down side is a bit of lost interoperability, but I'm bit by bit bringing that back in a different way, import once at start up / manual publish, announce or export.
Okay, I've seen enough context now. I think you may have misunderstood my point and position. If you read my comment, you would see that what I said was I think custodial uses have a lot of positives.
This is why I use coinos already as a custodial lightning address because it's Convenient. Because I only keep a few bucks there. And I understand the trade-offs. And I know for sure that not everybody does.
I understand tone and intent are hard to read on the internet, but I'm not just some hater that goes around ducking on ecash. And I just want to make that clear.
ark is much closer to what I want, provided it can leverage CTV to reduce interactivity as much as possible. I think the puck is moving in this direction right now
this is the only paper that makes me think that cashu can be made to be non-custodial:
https://hackmd.io/@abdelhamid/cashu-starks
bitcoin will probably have onchain ZKP verification, but not until much later.
in both cases, we end up with a tighter connection to the blockchain. L2 should inherit security from L1
Some people sure seem to talk like this is the end all be all of bitcoin scaling. I just think that mentality is dangerous. But builders gonna build, and thats our strength
Federated trust models are a step in the right direction probably. But even a single point of trust bitcoin bank is an idea worth exploring. (This is the ETFs, and exchanges as well) In my long post above I think I make that clear. And I am grateful people like you are working on these things.
everything humanity has ever invented was a transitionary solution until something better was invented.
Sure. Also custodial. And I appreciate Adam's work as I do yours. But even coinos has had to freeze withdrawals a couple times in recent days.
The potential for loss with counterparty risk is always there. And it doesn't even mean that the person that I'm trusting has to do something nefarious. It could just be an accident.
I don't tend to look at things in black and white frames. I find that to be not useful. And using custodial services and custodial protocols is okay for certain circumstances. As I think I said in my above post in a roundabout way.
Thank you, made it specially so we can hate it together :P
Yup. I’m not in it for the tech. I’m in it for the private payments and private communications.
#bitcoin #custody #memes
https://media.ditto.pub/8afd769a0cd6356b9fe400c1b8c83496c9633f25a771d7e1904a66a9626e578c.jpeg
privacy, trustlessness, verifiability. pick two
You can't have all three in a single system. It's impossible due fundamental limitations of information theory. You would understand this if you actually tried to build the system you have described.
The best design is a layered stack that makes different tradeoffs at different layers. Let users freely move value between the layers and you have just empowered them to control their own privacy and sovereignty.
This is the way.
Blind dogma is not the way.
Nothing is perfect! So nothing is good? 🤔
ecash is so fucking cool. it is elegant and beautiful and powerful and it will free the world
i think the haters' biggest problem is a lack of imagination
https://image.nostr.build/a70f9bdb005be4db505b3aae027d4fc599a0e2861fe60e32afc59ec6fc61852e.gif
I want to know too, some people like @npub149p…722q @npub1jlr…ynqn and myself have been working on these pillars for a while
I y it was being taken into consideration but after checking, it's being ignored. Looks like I have a new task to work on asap. Thank you!
not yet but this looks reasonable to me. i still haven't implemented file encryption (decryption for kind 15 is implemented) but you are right that we need a way to attach an encrypted file to a message, both for DMs and groups.
All solutions, no tradeoffs
you have a coinos lightning address in your bio. you can also use their mint.
Most people who complain have a custodial lightning address in their bio.
I just reply with their Lightning address
that's ok thelegendaryman@faintain.fm
that's ok brimhd@primal.net
no problem bitkarrot@primal.net
https://image.nostr.build/f59812ac793294a7a2058517a483e1dec9bb825a41c0db39040ebdb16099fafe.jpg
thelegendaryman@faintain.fm
brimhd@primal.net - concerned of rugging?
any ideas how to do it better?
any ideas how to achieve that while keeping efficiency and privacy?
everything is a meme. make a new one!
How do you block a website?
How about the encrypted mute items? Is Pokey decrypting and muting those, or ignoring them?
The problem is exactly as you defined. @nprofile…9ak9 only connect to inbox relays. The main issue is that Android has a very strict limited number of allowed parallel WS connections.
We discover in early versions that if you allow pokey to permanently connect to all relays, other nostr apps will have troubles or directly won't work because their connection attempts will be blocked by Android.
I have sort of an idea on how to solve it. But I need to work on it. Thanks for the heads up 🙂 this definitively has to be solved.
The latest batch of reply bot spammers all get their PFP from the same website. On Amethyst, I just block the website and they vanish.
The nostr.land relay will soon include a spam filtering aggregtor relay that you can replace free relays with.
This will be included in the existing subscription, without any additional subscriptions to manage unlike other relays.
We didn't Implement any privacy topics in regards of uploading media in private chat as it will end up in link to event. But form ux Perspective on uploading process, I will notify user about the media visibility to all, not just private chat members for now. I don't think Adding encryption is that straight forward as a group can be changed form private to public, and from close to open, then it add more complexity on visibility of media for other users.
It's good to think about the privacy in nip29 group, maybe introducing new events kind in nip29 to cover this aspects.
I completely agree. If an interface struggles to make choice work, a clear statement could be a fair compromise.
I also lean toward private mutes, but I am also sympathetic to use-cases like @nprofile…u0w6's web-of-trust scoring that deducts score based on how many within your WoT have muted a given npub.
That's another way that choice is advantageous, though. The ones you would most want to be taken inter consideration for WoT scoring would be muted scammers and spammers, which a user probably has no issue being publicly shamed. Whereas the mutes you most likely want to have kept private are just people who you don't get along with, and that sort of reason for muting probably doesn't need to be taken into consideration for WoT score, as others may get along with them fine.
Looks right up my alley! I'll hop in and take a look later this week or early next.
I have to go dark on Nostr for a couple days to prepare a couple messages I will be delivering this weekend, then I should have some time available to dig in.
@npub1kun…3lhe as you can see the more apps that are tested the more permutations that must be recorded.
I am looking forward to @npub16ux…lra7 taking a couple approaches to automating this type of testing.
One angle, created by @npub1uac…99rx , involves building on a JSON schema portable to any language and validating events prior to publication.
Hoping to have schemata documentation ready for review in coming weeks https://github.com/nostrability/schemata 🙏
@npub1kun…3lhe lmk if you are interested in developing the mute JSON schema for nostr apps and I will add you to the nostrCI group.
Textbook interop documentation. Well done ser. Captured here so we don’t lose
https://github.com/nostrability/nostrability/issues/201
This is a lot of good info, thanks for testing all this
Yes. Damus iOS web-of-trust thread spam mitigation work is underway.
@npub1yau…vjmf is working on a WOT mitigation
What’s the best way to eliminate reply spam?
I have multiple paid relays but doesn’t seem to help. @npub18kz…x5sz @npub1226…grkj
WoT would seem like an option. Thoughts? @npub1utx…50e8 @npub1jlr…ynqn
I think @npub1syj…f6wl will implement an option to mute public or private.
I can't believe I didn't even check Jumble...
Jumble appears to add encrypted entries to your kind 10000, similar to Amethyst. Which is great for Jumble, but whoever you mute there won't be muted on any client that doesn't support it.
Ok, it's time to gripe a little bit, as I discovered an annoying lack of interoperability between various #Nostr clients that really ought not to be the case:
Mute lists.
Beware, this is a bit of a long one...
When a user mutes an npub, or a word, they don't want it to only be muted in Amethyst, and not muted at all in Primal. They want it to be muted across all Nostr clients they use.
The standard mute list, according to NIP-51 is kind 10000. All users should have exactly one of these, and relays should only keep the most recent version.
Mute lists may contain a few different types of muted content:
1. Muted users/npubs, designated by a "p" tag.
2. Muted hashtags, designated by a "t" tag.
3. Muted words, designated by a "word" tag.
4. Muted threads (such as hellthreads), designated by a "e" tag.
Some clients also encrypt the entries added to the mute list. While not required, it is part of the spec that clients should expect to see within a kind 10000, and I think it should be preferred. A given npub should not be aware that another npub has muted them and unencrypted mute lists are readable by anyone, unless we move to only saving mute lists to relays that can require AUTH to read them.
Yet, I see a wide variety of handling of mute lists by clients.
#Amethyst uses kind 10000 as expected, and encrypts all content saved to the mute list (hooray!). It seems to support muting npubs and words, and has no support for muting hashtags or threads. @npub1gcx…nj5z, please chime in to correct me if I have misrepresented anything here.
#Coracle uses kind 10000 for muted npubs and also decrypts the muted npubs that were added by Amethyst, so they are also muted on Coracle. However, users muted on Coracle are not encrypted. I imagine this is because Coracle is trying to use mute information for the sake of building web-of-trust scores (mutes by those within your WoT count as -1 in the scoring), and any encrypted mute information cannot be used to calculate those scores. Also, though Coracle supports muted words, it does not seem to see the words I have muted from Amethyst in my kind 10000, and seems to be keeping a separate list, because words I have added in Coracle don't show up on my kind 10000, and are therefore not seen by other clients. @npub1jlr…ynqn, can you offer some clarity on how Coracle handles mutes, especially regarding muted words?
#Primal web seems to have an old kind 30000 list with only two npubs listed, while Primal Android didn't show any muted users at all, but adding a muted user added the npub to my kind 10000, which suggests Primal simply doesn't support decrypting the other entries that were added from Amethyst. Also, muting an npub on Primal resulted in all the encrypted entries on my mute list from Amethyst being nuked.
#Nostur did not display any of the above. Not my kind 10000, encrypted entries or not, or the kind 30000 Primal had been using at some time in the past. Adding a "blocked" user in Nostur also did not add them to my kind 10000 and did not add any other list type that I could find on listr.lol either. I am guessing it is using a list kind that isn't recognized or is just storing blocked npubs locally. @npub1n0s…lahe, can you provide some insight into how Nostur is handling mutes/blocks, and why it doesn't seem to be using kind 10000?
#Damus appears to be using kind 10000, but only shows entries that have not been encrypted. However, when adding a new blocked user, it does not appear that Damus wipes out the encrypted entries in the list. If not supporting encrypted entries within your client, this is the best way to handle them, rather than erasing them when replacing the kind 10000 as Primal did.
#Nostrudel behaves much the same as Damus, using the kind 10000 and only showing entries that have not been encrypted, but also not wiping encrypted entries when adding a new entry.
#Pokey also seems to have trouble respecting mute lists for the sake of muting notifications. This appears to be because Pokey only looks for your mute list on your inbox(read) relays, while users publish their mute list to their outbox(write) relays, and those may not necessarily be the same. However, I wonder if it is also an issue of Pokey indeed being able to find a user's mute list, but not taking encrypted entries into consideration. @npub1v3t…yvjh, can you confirm whether Pokey is able to mute notifications from npubs that have been encrypted in a users mute list?
Is it possible to get these and other major clients on the same page about how to handle mute lists?
Yesterday, @nprofile…8jsn posted this about what interoperability means on Nostr:
#nevent1q…d6zu
I pointed out that in order for this to be the case, we also need to agree on the format and expected content that will be contained in a specific note kind. From what I can tell, there is little agreement on how mute lists should be handled.
Should they include encrypted entries? If they do, should clients respect the encrypted entries, since the user who created that kind 10000 certainly doesn't want to see notes from the npubs they added to their mute list, encrypted or not? Clients certainly should not nuke encrypted content from the mute list if it is present, right? Or should we drop support for encrypted entries on mute lists altogether, since some clients are relying on mute lists from npubs within a user's WoT to determine what content is likely to be spam?
Users just want to know that when they mute an npub or a word in one client, that it will also be muted in other clients, and that muting in one client won't nuke their mute list in another client.
cashu represents complacency and a lowering of standards. all offchain scaling solutions should have a cryptographically secure unilateral exit mechanism. they should never ever be ruggable. and generally they should have good UX. don't let anyone trick you into thinking that it isn't possible to have all of that at the same time.
tell me about it
i wish people were 1% as concerned about custodial mining pools as custodial mints. nobody gives a shit. i feel like i'm taking crazy pills.
Oh man, I hope I didn't come across as salty 😂 I just happen to have all of my zapping sats stuck in a respected mint right now, so I've been actively thinking about my own dilemma.
> The fedi mint is a single point of failure
The difference between fedimint and Cashu is fedmint isn't a single point of failure. If one of the nodes goes down, the fedimint can still run.
Also, a great use case for ecash is for an employer to pay employees. Great privacy and ease of payment.
denominationally divisive even. 🤷
Well it is a custodial technology that can rug people easily unless you are running your own mint. It is just modern banking and money printing reimagined for bitcoin.
The link between fedi ecash tokens is still through custodial software. The tokens are only minted by the federation, but to redeem them, the software still needs to be hosted. The fedi mint is a single point of failure, and at that point and for general use, cashu in its current form is a perfectly acceptable way to use a custodian.
If you trust the cashu custodian to host the mint, you probably can trust them to not rug your tokens, at least in the short term. It's not perfect, but there aren't any silver bullets yet, both lightning and ecash aren't perfect alone, but together they largely solve the majority of end-user issues. Adoption of them together provide tools to solve many market problems.
If market use-cases are identified, and solutions are built around them, the need amplifies to find better solutions to the ecash custody problem. We know the problem is solvable, the only debate is over how and whether better solutions might emerge.
Patience is key, education is paramount.
Not familiar with coinos, but anything that gives you a lightning address should be all you need
Zaps and small purchases like vpn, bribing my son to walk on back lol
Perhaps reviews could have several types: "i know and trust the operator" or "it works well" ...
Everything currently is of the latter type which has the problems you describe.
If we're talking a few $20 bills then how much do we even trust ourselves? We rug ourselves all the time, we put bills through the washing machine, we let them fall to the Starbucks floor when messing with our pockets, we don't pay attention to them when we get short-changed...
Even if choosing cashu mints at random, I'm pretty sure the amount of cash I'll self-rug in a given year will he higher.
My concern is rugging. Not a hater, just curious about certain things, very respectfully! 🧡
What's the best and safest used case potentials for it? Thinking let's say within local communities.
Do you mostly use it for zaps? Or what other ways you use it? Am I essentially using it if I am linked up with coinos for zaps?
Untraceable Privacy… What’s not to like?
Its custodial. Very slippery slope, and in my opinion it should be considered a tranistionary solution until we have something better. I use it currently, but being complacent is a concern
As long as people are honest about it, I think it's fine. Waiting until Fedimint gets further a long until I can run one with some other bitcoiners on here.
I 🧡 calle but i am not running it
If it’s not perfect then it’s no good
I did notice that lately. Why is that?
I just need Private group mints.
Don't need reviews for anything on Nostr. Not one thing, so far.
Everything is a trade off.
So far, it appears relatively easy to spin up and run a mint though
Kinda absurd how we're moving into a custodian world from a non-custodian world.
people will use the mints that their friends use.
social graph recommendation > reviews
#nevent1q…nz53
https://audit.8333.space/ is the signal. Agreed that mint reviews are pretty pointless.
But when you know the operator personally it's not stupid. It's great. It's fantastic! Uncle Jim model for the win!
Only use fist-reach custodians. Know Your Custodian!!
Yeah. There's no way to predict. Some system for simply reporting problems after they occur (and a way for affected users to state that their problem has been fixed) would likely be more helpful for users. A "no news is good news" method.
The distributed risk also comes with a distributed likelihood of problems, too, and a reduced sense of urgency to address & rectify issues since it's a small group affected by it rather than many vehement voices of typical centralized custodial services. With money, it's particularly important that a service stays available. Users should be aware of tradeoffs, yes, but the system needs to be reliable enough to make those tradeoffs worth the risk or even people that understand it will quit using any of it altogether. I think the method above would help incentivize operators to monitor and address issues, too. Then if a mint has repeated problems but fixes them quickly, they can still build positive reputation.
"Will my mint(s) rug me?" is a halting problem.
Run your own mint. If you can't, find someone you trust who runs one for you. It starts with you.
Indeed. I don’t see mints as being trustworthy unless they’re backed by real corporations with insurance, or public entities. People you can actually sue and punish.
@npub1jlr…ynqn nostr relays aren’t really the same because the stuff we put on there is mostly worthless trash 😂
4 out of 5 have not been rugged yet
Cashu is a 100% custodial system. And simply must be used as such. It is the old system grafted into bitcoin and requires absolute trust. And currently trust in "uncle Joe" or some dude that wears balaclava in public.
It is a CENTRALIZED bitcoin bank.
The tech is important. And im glad its being developed. I believe bitcoin banks are part of the future. But it is imperative that we work to decentralize them and minimize trust as much as possible.
It's fantastic tech. It's really good privacy and it's just a rug waiting to happen.
We get amazed by shiny things and don't pay attention to the tradeoffs they make. And some of them can be used for good. You can give your cousin a Bitcoin IOU, and if she doesn't cash it in, you can revoke it. That's not really Bitcoin anymore though, is it? And that's fine. You might need these tools, I think we will.
But I don't think we should be sugar coating it or not pulling out what it exactly is.
almost like scaling through custodians is kinda backwards TBH
Looks simple enough to me. although I don't know if its a good idea to overload the existing file kinds with encrypted files
Agreed.
Reviews cost nothing, scams bootstrap poor quality amazon products, and low quality restaurants.
A more useful heuristic:
-time of operation (e.g. 10 days, 100 days etc)
-proof of prior rugpull (if any)
-people in your WOT who “vouch” for a mint
-mint owner or admin
Latter two are unlikely public info, and likely not practical or useful
this means we're so early not that it's stupid
cashu is stupid regardless
you have to know the mint operator personally
And is there a potential fix to this bug? I mean it seems not reasonable, that a - tag would influence anything.
- u
is a nostr only insult
"you can't ban nostr you can only..."
Great! Feel free to make a PR as well. Or I can just add them myself.
I'm not a Go expert, but I've played with Khatru in the past.
All adjustments I'm pushing to this repo for now: https://github.com/nostrver-se/ddsr/tree/main/pages
Oh, your welcome. 🫡
I'm glad to hear you are using it. I appreciate any kind of feedback and feature requests. 🚀🤝
Top result in #amethyst. Maybe it depends on what relays you have marked for search?
@nprofile…tumy
Thank you for building this, now running https://profiles.nostrver.se/ 💯
Why not make the community the key then?
#communikeys are adaptive AF when it comes to transport protocols.
So I don't have to buy a domain or do any weird setup?
Imagine being able to predict the state of humanity 2.5k years later. 😅
words are just picture of thoughts.
And like picture they don't represent all the reality but just a little imperfect copy.
But our memory don't save all the reality too.
So, in a way, words can improve memory, and do a little more for our human imperfection, like transmitting ours thoughts in space and time.
#thinkstr
why not cloudflare tunnels?
Just tap the lightning icon on the bottom of the note and it will send him some sats
I like that yours is using a Nostr relay to establish the connection. Once the connection is established, everything else is just straight from client to community relay, right?
This is definitely one of the biggest hurdles to running a relay for just about any purpose, not just communities.
What do you think about the possibility of using something like Pear runtime for connecting to a community relay?
@nprofile…u0w6 I recall a few months back you said something like "AI is really good at quickly generating large amounts of legacy code."
I find that to be a very helpful framing, and I use that like with my coworkers frequently.
😂 Umm, I think it was... 20, 9802 and 30023... and some topic hashtags.
Hi, thanks! No big worry or hurry on my account. I subscribed to help test it out more than anything. I tried to set it up with other content types since thats where a lot of things that are worth true attention take place.
Hey #nostriches my friend @nprofile…hw77 just joined #Nostr from #Africa. Please give him a follow and zap him some sats
@nprofile…8m4j
@nprofile…345a
@nprofile…775u
@nprofile…rlph
@nprofile…zj6n
#nevent1q…42g0
So that is the reason why...
Coracle is now the side project and flotilla is the new hottness.
Makes me a little sad inside.
It needs more TLC, I think. It's actually one of the largest and most-complex clients, and probably needs 10 - 20 hours of maintenance per week, but he's busy with #Flotilla.
It's simply not feasible, for one dev to have two such massive projects and have both stay fit.
Very curious but hard-to-answer asking. I want to see more reply.
My opinion:
The question why the internet is "good" in the sense that it advances human flourishing is very interesting.
But, if it were specific to "internet", I don't think it is anything more or less than to empower individuals, by amplifying knowledge and collaboration.
In the near future where AI and biotechnology evolve, humanity will have to answer the question, "What is life?".
In the near future where developed countries fall down and geopolitics reaches a critical point, there might be a world war.
It would be literally "telelogical" and "ontological".
In there, we need a free, censorship-resistant, transactional internet where non-tampered information, free speech and people's money are circulating in order to express and collaborate on the free will of individuls.
#nevent1q…9m9v
we stand upon a teetering, rumbling tower of ancient bricks, that were made yesterday
We also don't have the OpenGraph sorted out, yet, as it needs to be server-side, and maybe it's not gracefully-handling that.
Even worse, is that I can't publish a note.
i suspect it's the text parser, ie text -> html
Not Svelte 5, for sure, as that's what we're using and having no problems.
i first noticed this almost 2 months ago, in that case it was text directly after an image hyperlink
idk if it's text parsing or the rendering engine doing it but i'm leaning towards it being a bug in svelte
Example of a hyperlink just being disappeared.
https://i.nostr.build/8hhGya9DmmhPyKEh.png
#nevent1q…jwxs
Probably bots telling you there is a problem!
#Coracle is having major problems, @nprofile…u0w6 . I can only post every few notes or so. And it freezes up, when I try to add a pic. And it shows this horrible error message, instead of hyperlinks. Or, it just shows no hyperlink. Just a blank space.
https://video.nostr.build/6d3a8056b8c22d05f4aed023a74e0dbd3fa50d42813db4ed048a72d805f98e9a.mp4
Do you have a suggestion for a good WoT relay list?
You'll need to remove the public relays from your relay configuration, use WoT and paid relays.
@nprofile…u0w6
Any suggestions on how to get rid of these drunken autoreply ai bots for every post I make?
@nprofile…u0w6 can I forward you the Anchor Alert I received today or can you see it in some way by chance? It contains the most ridiculous link to a nostrbuild hosted svg file. I don't know if maybe there's some way to shorten or partially hide those?
Aside from this, it's been very concise and timely.
Ooo! Good to know, thanks
Is there a way to fix this in Flotilla @npub1jlr…ynqn ?
https://image.nostr.build/5dd47da4354d15839a0a72749557ee0d12fa852ef925c17c158d63469f2793bb.jpg
I've got a few rooms in my space that used to have names but now are just a string of numbers.
I mean... are literacy rates "cooked"? I think one can find a number of utilitarian metrics with solid footing that would advance the case for the human benefits of the internet.
I mean, given the fact that emergency services now utilize internet-based telephony... You could start there. How many lives have been saved that otherwise wouldn't have because telecom networks allow rapid response to emergencies?
I thought you dm'd me and was flatter then noticed immediately it was an impersonater 👀
Npub check came in clutch ✅
https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/58085215-reality
Oh man. Noble search I guess. “What is good about humans…”/ “what are humans for”
I only know for myself… and I have faiths.
What could a book say?
Communication is can be gud.
I haven’t read this title (though his book competing spectacles is helpful) but I think God, Technology, and the Christian Life by Tony Reinke might be getting at what you’re asking about.
Sure, but a limited usefulness. From that screenshot I can tell that is likely the legit @npub1jlr…ynqn due to the WoT ring next to his handle. Impostors don't build up WoT scores like that. And I can tell that without having to look up his profile, check his NIP-05 or follower count, or anything. It's just immediately apparent at a glance.
Here's a post on Nostrudel by contrast:
https://relay.brightbolt.net/5d7c317cee97840724568f93d69c0808a6c3598c558adfbce2b5152860dfe116.jpg
Can you tell, without going to his profile, whether this post is the legit @npub1jlr…ynqn or a fake?
This colored border around his profile picture means exactly nothing to me unless I happen to already know what color it SHOULD be.
The above screenshot is from the impostor, by the way. @npub1jlr…ynqn's correct color is lime green on Nostrudel. But the point is, I didn't just happen to know that. I had to look him up by his npub that I already knew (from Coracle) to learn that lime green is the color I should be looking for.
I never stopped lol
I certainly won't now. I think it's worth having capable guardians of certain critical applications (like signers).
It might be useful when replying. I don't know.
https://blossom.primal.net/cf51f6acc1563e0d2dccee2b0c182079c2dac5dd5dbf2cbabe10c98355e8d664.png
The Great Technology Reversal. McLuhan predicted this.
I think I prefer grape. I'd do either though.
Typo frems forever. #typostr 🫂
Yummm grape or strawberry
"The signer is safe and effective"
It’s also good for preventing typos!
This is actually a good idea. In the early days, we would manually approve all actions after reviewing them, to make sure we knew what was happening. This helped prevent random profile changes, relays being nuked, contacts being nuked, etc.
#nevent1q…ye7w
Yes, I have seen that Nostrudel has it. And yes, it can help to quickly identify that you are dealing with a different npub, but only if you already know the correct one and remember what color they should have. Which means, not very useful at all...
Beeping Jeans Zippers, now that's the kind of merch we need here on NOSTR 😂
At least my bag wasn't randomly selected this time. I swear it always is after leaving a bitcoin conference.
welcome to the dark side :)
I don't know if it will be useful. coracle already has sufficient measures in place. There are probably not many measures that can be added to coracle.
You can see what it looks like with nostrudel.
https://nostrudel.ninja/
Trying to understand how this would help.
So, it converts an npub into a series of colors instead, because npubs are too long. Great. How does that help someone know whether color series A or color series B is the impostor? They would need to already know the correct color series ahead of time.
whoever created that impersonator account is so mentally retarded they DMed me asking about my trades.
I think Coracle has the right approach. Just need more clients to have similar indicators, marticularly on their search results.
It's to the point that I won't search for users on any other client but Coracle. It's the only one I know I can trust to have the legit profile as the top result, with a clear indication of why I should trust that they are not an impostor.
Earlier this month I had the fake hodlbod DM me. Spot the giveaway.
https://blossom.primal.net/6eb97d18f16a85964abaa48198bba4db0e0059f2e385b5b9488e476e5cc52637.png
I find it quite ironic that it would have been obvious he was an impostor if they had been using Coracle.
Didn’t even realize I was 😮
Very good fake account for @nprofile…u0w6 ; https://primal.net/p/nprofile1qqsfjp55tqw9syjy38gtpr06f5482ga8zwck4q56p0qkrtvzhl7uj9gqcu5jn
Ooh, I would love to hear your thoughts on that book. I have heard so many good things about it and I started it but it didn’t finish.
https://image.nostr.build/cda5e275128bc5a4f08097e728c2d5a825d18b69d8f0cf959978f10d6cc22238.gif
Wen pictures of you shaving @nprofile…u0w6 😂
Should have added a sensitive content warning, huh? 🤣
At the recommendation of @nprofile…u0w6, I tried out shaving with @nprofile…75w5 soap. Specifically the pine tar scent.
No, not my face. My head.
https://relay.brightbolt.net/97a212e114a5fe542d3a73d436dfcf26e81991915495b25904eaf2da34cba39e.jpg https://relay.brightbolt.net/c8171caa642d49cd7720f9d7bb1822bed528cf233213d5e0f193901684e5f886.jpg
Lathers up really nice and was a great shaving experience! Highly recommend!
Nips aside, videos like that give me a legit stress reaction. The idea of being stuck in a small space like that.... 😱
The related question is whether the tool serves us or if we serve the tool.
This is a commentary on the delegation of agency to machines, written in 1973, but maybe relevant for all you vibers out there.
#nevent1q…uecj
For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear; but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father. (Romans 8:15, KJV)
If your trust is in the state and your authority flows through force, your days will be filled with fear, because you have become a servant to your god, Satan.
Thanks for sharing this statement
Will check out Whitenoise. Saw it shared around but haven't tested it yet.
I like the relay model and from my experience with it, it has worked best. Flotilla being the prime example.
The accessability issue though is a problem as that is a serious barrier to entry. Wven for the motivated there is cost (cloud host vs run your own hardward) and technical learning involved. I'd like to assume anyone that has been on nostr for a while is motivated and commited to this protocol but I'm not sure how the cost and technical barrier scales to that user. And we should have that user in mind when building nostr. Religous/non-profit boards, social activist groups/organizers, the coveted "influencer" communities - these will expect both privacy and trus. These are the users I'm thinking of and we need low cost and low technical entry for this to scale to bring them.
Got to play with Chachi more! Been using it mostly through Keychat browser mode cause I found it could load my private Flotilla space faster and it helped me sort out bloat on that relay. Now it helped reveal to me this issue with 0xchat where some group chats not private when users clearly thought they were.
Yes, but only for a time (next two decades, is my guess). With the boomers continuing to die out, automation settling in, and the purchasing power of fiat currencies declining 2-3% on an annual basis, future generations won't be able to afford to raise a kid or support a family; hell, more and more people aren't even able to make rent or mortgage payments.
Also, it isn't just about liquidity redistribution. Newly printed money (or digital monetary issuance) misallocated into unproductive goods and services and nations' black budgets have severely crippled our ability to determine accurate foreign exchange rates. In short, it's all bullshit. They feed us only half the info, in hopes that we'll turn a blind eye to everything going on behind the curtain.
My wages have not changed so my productivity has not changed. I do find myself relaxing or doing personal stuff at work more often though.
I think boomers and GenX probably mostly would have worked more for the same money, millennials and younger you'll see the consensus shift towards if you want more out of me you have to pay me more.
I haven't been around forever so I can't say how much those older generations were suckers and how much corporations have changed how they treat their employees. I do know that now you can work yourself to death for less than inflation raises year after year or chill and get the same raise anyway.
thanks for the mention my fren, lmk if you run into any issues with Chachi!
I was speaking more broadly in terms of freedom tech like Bitcoin. Nevertheless your point is well taken. But what about open source, narrowly scoped, and locally hosted models? Presumably one could harness a fleet of these to compete with the likes of OpenAI
Shout outs to @nprofile…h2c0 and Flotilla ( @npub1jlr…ynqn ) for having done the most work in this space. Still a lot to do to get private groups/communities to scale!
Chachi ( @nprofile…20jd ) also a solid runner up just because it's helped me find bugs in other apps faster 😭
#nevent1q…xzef
Why so bearish? AI is just a tool, like electricity, the car, bitcoin.
Back in the 1700s, ruthless algorithms had a different name. They called them Rationalism—and the whole Western world was under the sway of the Age of Reason. But like today’s algorithms, the new systems of the Rationalists attempted to replace human wisdom and experience with intrusive and inflexible operating rules.
It didn’t work.
“This rationalistic philosophy, which had been expected to solve all the problems, had failed to rescue society from either despotism and poverty,” explains Edmund Wilson in his masterful study To the Finland Station.
“The mechanical inventions of which it had been expected that they would vastly improve the lot of humanity were obviously making many people miserable,”
Ted Gioia > https://open.substack.com/pub/tedgioia/p/we-really-are-entering-a-new-age
Anomie and ennui are here, but they're far from evenly distributed.
Other than that, 100% agree.
That's the minimum scale of production I was talking about.
Human leaders are social primates, just more coked-up and psychopathic than most.
When growth slows and their underling's social climbs stall, they will play chicken with the War Train to bluff a larger share of the loot.
I think this is well underway already...
I agree that it can't go on forever, we are just disagreeing about whether humans or machines are the last ones standing. Humans can't seem to find a reason for their own existence, anymore, so they're capitulating.
China can't afford sanctions. They are an export economy and their own population is dying out. They have to export Even More Even Harder, or they collapse.
What cannot continue forever, won't.
We are gaining efficiency (sometimes), at the cost of increased minimum scale of production, and complexity. Both of which increase fragility, in Taleb's sense of the word.
At scale, my country can no longer fuel itself, nor fertilise crops, nor make semiconductors.
One day we will offend China enough to trigger sanctions, and that day will come. I worry about that day, not robot utopia...
Yes, but it's rising in an age where mechanization is on steroids. You can watch the Chinese producers struggle with their highly-efficient factories, to produce smaller numbers of products. It isn't possible. They have to flood the market with produce and destroy their own price point, or just throw half of the production into the furnace.
Same with German cars. Producing all of these cars for fewer and fewer drivers because the world population is still rising, but fewer of them are young or have families. Even building smaller cars won't solve the problem of the lack of drivers. So, it's less about the size of the population and more about the age-distribution through the populace. That's why the growth will suddenly reverse, when the oldest generation dies off en mass.
Your family has a dissident culture, and dissident attitudes to social status.
Don't change! 💖
We simply have more and niftier versions of each thing, per person. This is greater affluence, but largely through redundancy. There used to be a house phone, a house TV, a house dishwasher, etc. and everyone shared it. Those things brought productivity gains. But then they incentivized people to purchase one of each and then to move to separate houses, and the gains reversed.
Why does my family have savings, unlike most Germans? None of us ever divorced and the kids stay at home until they are married, and we share cars and kitchens and bathrooms, and there is only one TV and one grill and one big freezer. We just buy fewer things because we share things, and save the difference, because employers pay us the wages that people who need to Buy All The Things require to subsist, but we don't require those things.
All true re specialisation.
But the global population is still rising, its just that purchasing power is less and less evenly distributed, because governments are redistributing more and more and distorting markets to breaking point.
Automation is neither the problem nor the solution...
Also, the mechanization took away specialization. There used to be one woman washing the dishes for 6 people, or so. She eventually got highly efficient at it. Now, there are 7 people, all in a different home, washing their own dishes.
And all of them need a dishwasher and a sink and dishes. So, you need 7 dishwashers and 7 sinks and 7 sets of dishes and 7 humans. Where you used to need 1 of each. So, the economic growth came from selling all of that excess stuff. But now, those things exist and the number of humans are declining. The factories keep pumping out the dishwashers, and they just sit around in the warehouse and eventually get written-off and crushed... and turned into more dishwashers. LOL
There are two kinds of filter-frees IMHO - the kind that require paper bags, and the kind that blow dust back out everywhere. A cyclone can only do so much. The human avoids doing one job only because the machine avoids doing another.
LEDs are modules, not simple bulbs, and they suffer failures too, admittedly not at the same frequency. They still need replacing and we not automating that...
I think they did bring productivity gains.
Many countries in Asia, even the middleclasses don't own washing machines because domestic staff are so cheap. Such a waste of human potential.
I would argue that we did become more productive and affluent, but social status is relative and that's what people thought they were buying and were thus disappointed.
That is getting worse, not better, and I don't have a solution. Culture is upstream of both politics and economics...
We already have filter-free vacuum cleaners and LEDs are not light bulbs. I'm just saying that everything will eventually be like that.
Thats bcs people don't want to keep the balance. If they used AI to do the job faster and retrieve the time to pursue other hobbies or social activities, then Ai would actually help. But people rather tend to run in the rat race and work too much to compete with others and for higher status, also system pushes them into this
I mean, think about the dishwasher, the washing machine, and the vacuum cleaner. Did they bring significant human productivity gains?
Nope. We just bought more dishes, more clothes, and bigger houses. And then we went to work to buy more highly-automated versions of them, and to purchase even more dishes, clothes, and house. The same type of work is being done, in the amount necessary for one household (and there are fewer people and more things and floor space in the household). Is the shifted labor more productive? Probably not, as it took women out of the home and collapsed the birth rate, and human production is the most-useful production.
Those people already exist - they spend far more money than they need to on frequently replacing their fragile machines, they suffer from obesity and malnutrition, and they're boring to be around.
Hard disagree on automation replacing filters and light bulbs, those are exactly the jobs too marginal to be worth automating. So far we're mostly just making replacement more expensive in resources but cheaper and simpler in labour training.
💖 on your last paragraph. When my machines break, I love taking them apart and making them dumber, more reliable and more repairable. They look like Dr Frankenstein's Adam, of course :D
Irrelevant to the fact that they can continue this, indefinitely, because the machine will continue to rise in productivity and efficiency, and human productivity and demographics will decline in the interim period, so that they can't simply go back to having humans do it.
The machines are increasingly competing against other machines, rather than against humans. The most-efficient machines will monopolize a market, the others will give up, and then the winning machines can earn a profit.
People think Bitcoin fixes this, but it doesn't. Bitcoin just keeps humans treading water a little bit longer.
Future vacuum cleaners won't have a filter to clean. Modern fire alarms don't have batteries. You won't need to know how to change a light bulb because there will be no lightbulbs.
Everything is going to end up completely over-mechanized and over-robotized, but once people have gotten used to that, they never go back. The person who never learned to chop veggies and cook soup, won't retire at 65 and learn to chop veggies and cook soup. His brain will have completely atrophied, by then. He will be living off of factory-made pudding.
That's why people like me look smarter and smarter and have a higher and higher productivity advantage: we learned to do everything manually, so we get how things work, and we don't have to waste money on unnecessary machines, and we are better about using the machines available and maximizing their capacity. We didn't change; everyone else did.
Productivity gains, substituting labour with capital, largely borrowed and uncertain in its prospects.
It may also be that the opposite effect occurs. You can't know.. 🤷♂️
I have low-end versions of some of those. They require quite a bit of my attention and skills, otherwise they soon become unservicable.
I am baffled by how many GenZ men and women do not know how to clean a vacuum cleaner's filter, and how many won't even if shown. (Not just GenZ, my GenY wife too on this specific task).
The Second Law of Thermodynamics is a cruel mistress. Fully-Automated Luxury Communism is not on the cards, for better or worse.
Billionaires can have Fully-Automated Potemkin Villages if they wish, but only with human staff playing at being the "Resident Evil maid" out of the master's sight.
Company’s costs, yes but not productivity per employee. I don’t see how the 2 points are connected, we’re talking about slightly different things here.
How many people eat prepared foods, frozen pizza, etc. Did they buy it at the self-checkout? And did machines build the food, in a big factory that only have a few industrial mechanics standing around?
Robots harvested, washed, cut, packaged, and sorted the veggies on the pizza. The dough came out of the dough machine. It was all put together and packaged by another robot, which sent the box on the rollbahn to the trucks, where a different robot loads them on the trucks. And the trucks largely drive themselves, now. At the other end... it's everything, everywhere.
Well, think about it. How many people have:
an electric dishwasher
an automatic lawn-mower
an automatic vacuum cleaner
a self-driving car
home automation
garage door openers
Thermomix
etc. etc. etc.
The toaster will play intrusive ads, then bluescreen, and catch fire. Premium ones that don't will not be purchased.
Changes will be incremental, enshitified, and only for middleclass+ and only so long as the ponzi schemes hold up.
And we see no limit to the number of robots being purchased. We see the opposite: robots standing around, often idle, because there aren't enough human customers to take up the produced goods and services.
Idle robots are everywhere, already. Most robots are idle, most of the time. The capital gets trapped in the robots and the humans just sit around and get fat or hang out at the gym all day.
I have friends and cousins in robotics.
Humans are like coal - the resources to replace us at scale just aren't available. The most that is likely to be achieved is crushing the price at the top end of the market via optionality.
It starts with stuff like home appliances. You know, how you have to figure out what toaster setting to use?
That will no longer happen. The toaster won't have any controls. You'll just put the toast in, and take the toast out. What sort of shower do you want, this morning? The shower knows what you want.
Your entire existence will become devoid of thought and reflection. You can't just retire and get away from this. Retirement will make it so much worse.
Humans don't breed, when they're depressed, tho. They were only cheap, for a while, because they were increasing in number, but the supply is collapsing at an exponential rate. AI will just speed that up. A lot.
Also, there's so much unused capital lying around, while the population collapses, that is desperately looking for someplace to invest. And that includes Bitcoin capital. Money actually doesn't have any point, unless you eventually spend it or your children do (and how many people have no children).
All office and service workers will be hit. All manufacturing will be hit. All extraction will be hit. I probably see this, more than most people, as I live in a place full of engineers trying to fully-automate farming and mining, and etc.
What does that have to do with productivity?
Robots have expensive CAPEX, LLMs expensive OPEX. Humans are cheap and disposable.
This is the Twillight of the Professional/Managerial Class, not the fall of Asgard.
People will want to substitute the work at their job with work outside their job, to escape the AI depression, but that will no longer be an option, as all work will melt away.
I hear a lot of talk about office jobs disappearing because of AI, but AI robotics and smart mechanics is also hitting the market, hard. Machines are washing the dishes, mowing the lawn, checking on the baby, cooking the dinner, etc. It's just going to be humans standing around, in a sea of clever machines, bored out of their minds.
On the upside, it gives them more time to be propagandized or entertained. On the downside, they'll completely abandon reproduction, and eventually there will only be the machines.
If that's true then prices should fall (after adjusting for inflation) because AI first companies should be able to reduce their costs, undercut the competition, and gain market share.
This is just permanent unemployment, not retirement. Retired people often continue to be productive because of the skills and knowledge they gained at work being applied to other areas, but these people will have never worked.
No, it gives the government one more thing to regulate. We can already see that happening. One new law after another, for the proper use of AI. Mandatory training at companies for protecting personal information and etc. while using AI.
I don’t disagree with the first part - people will likely feel less meaning in their life - at least initially in a transitional phase. But I don’t think that will translate to them being less productive. Will they be replaced entirely? Very possible. But as a whole, I expect productivity to increased dramatically. Whether the same number of people are employed is irrelevant to productivity gains.
Do you think this could be measured (albeit imperfectly) by which companies do well in the next 5 years, those who embrase AI vs this that rely on scarce human expertise?
You can just "retire" and get to work on the stuff that matters
#nevent1q…4eyf
People are already depressed and alienated in most of those work settings.
https://media.tenor.com/iHowKm_oqlAAAAAC/anchorman-anchor-man.gif
Didn’t see this - you mean us? (EasyDNS) - no, we use our own Boxcoin instance and we HODL our BTC
But it may get rid of govt, the primary source of bs jobs
More or less the point or argument I am leaning towards making. Work and its meaning making mechanisms in the traditional sense are about to end for a LOT of people. I am making the case that people will learn to transition much sooner than the doom case that some have predicted.
I have the opposite opinion. Every person faces a version of the meaning and purpose dilemma when they retire. Most are able to navigate that phase in life successfully. All that is needed is for the mindset to shifted to an earlier stage in life.
Maybe then we can get rid of all these bs jobs
I tend to think the same. I've seen a fair number of attempts to say that people will find meaning in other aspects of their lives, but I'm left to wonder why they are not able to to that now. The same conditions that strip away meaning outside of work will continue to exist and possibly become amplified by convenience & abundance.
Those who use AI as a tool vs. those who use it as a product
The near future of "can's & can not's" 😔
Agreed. Also, skilled people using it to get more done rather than relying on entry level workers and thus creating a future crisis of no unskilled people being trained for future in those fields
I don't know what this means but I like coracle and I just wanted to say good work on it. 🤙
Where can I sign this petition? 🤣
omg based and hilarious 🤭
Lol 😂
Se debe haber divertido el niño
Based.
May I suggest
https://image.nostr.build/93d3b57c13b2a7975b2ef1d2fd22e9c1f7d14964c437affb328ee5d679ef4e94.jpg
indexer.coracle.social I believe
@nprofile…u0w6 What's that new contact book relay you got?
If I'm not mistaken it seems that you want to make another podcast and have that podcast be easily accessible to your current listeners. Kind of a "one stop shop" for Nunya's podcasts.
Maya's solution is one way to do it but I fear it may become a nightmare to manage over time.
Ericpp's suggestion of using a publisher it likely the future solution for these kinds of things.
The publisher tag is fairly new and there's not a lot of support for it in the apps. Off the top of my head I think only Fountain and Truefans support it.
There's also the podroll tag which is pretty awesome. Again not a lot of apps support it yet.
Here's how publisher works. It's a 2 part process
Part 1
You make a feed with a <podcast:medium>publisher</podcast:medium> line
Then a list of remote items <podcast:remoteItem>
Each remote item represents a podcast that you publish.
Part 2
Then in your podcast feeds you add a <podcast:publisher> block
inside that publisher block you put in a <podcast:remoteItem> tag that points to your publisher feed that you created in step 1.
What the Publisher Tag Does
When a podcast listener is playing your episode, the podcast app has a reference to your publisher feed.
It can then give the listener a list of all the podcasts that you publish. (pretty cool)
We know that it's authentic because both the publisher feed AND the podcast feed reference each other. That way no one can impersonate you. (so long as the listener is listening to your feed and not some bootleg look-a-like)
The Podroll Tag
In your podcast feed you put a <podcast:podroll> block
Inside that podroll block you put a set of <podcast:remoteItem> tags
Each remote item points to another podcast.
What the Podroll Tag Does
When a listener is listening the podcast player is aware of the other podcasts in the podroll tag and can surface them as a list to the listener saying something like "If you like this podcast, be sure to check out these other podcasts recommended to you by the podcast host"
Examples:
My publisher feed
https://cdn.kolomona.com//podcasts/publisher-rss.xml
https://image.nostr.build/ff25ea58a6d3cd09e4eb6612dfdab8c447f66ff7963cbfa464501d4aa9a55253.jpg
My Lightning Thrashes feed
https://sirlibre.com/lightning-thrashes-rss.xml
Publisher:
https://image.nostr.build/b199a545329995bbfecf1f5dc7f5f56fca8baacff94e8cfaffe129c3871a5fdf.jpg
Podroll:
https://image.nostr.build/2d573f93de942e0b1febc409f82ce1825f1e7007628c2fea3d6b84d36b3fabbd.jpg
RSS++
yes, this kind of setup is possible on https://relay.tools aka nostr1.com
fiatjaf also has a nice relay for experimentation that automatically adjusts the acl list to only show your notes to people you follow
mainstream clients though most will leak your note when someone else reacts or replies. so its best to discourage your friends entering the relay into their relay list unless they know what they're doing (use jumble etc)
This is great info for this. I'll try to get back into testing other ways of accessing nostr.
Came here to post this. Concealed. Stay off the X.
The podcast namespace has publisher feeds if you want to build a feed that contains all the podcasts/music that you publish: https://github.com/Podcastindex-org/podcast-namespace/blob/main/publishers/publishers.md
There's also list feeds if you want to build a playlists of podcasts or music that you like: https://github.com/Podcastindex-org/podcast-namespace/blob/main/docs/tags/medium.md#list-mediums
Nostr1.com from @nprofile…95a7 you can setup a block list
The only way to truly block someone to the point that they can't see your posts either is to run your own relay that reads your blocklist and then refuses to feed your posts to people you've blocked.
Is there a relay that does that? Is there a NIP for that? @nprofile…c3z4 @nprofile…pyug @nprofile…wa92 @nprofile…u0w6 @nprofile…77tf
Yes. The Primal app IS writing your notes to Nostr relays, even though it doesn't read from them. If you go to any Nostr client, your notes, comments, follows and followers will all be there waiting for you.
I encourage you to try out various Nostr clients. Each one does things a bit differently and has certain strengths and weaknesses.
For instance, even though I rag on Primal a fair bit, I still use their advanced search feature quite a bit, because it helps me find a particular note I am looking for really easily. Yet, when it comes to searching for a particular user, I always use Coracle, because I know that it will give me the legit user, based on web-of-trust, as the first result, whereas other clients may surface an impostor as the top suggestion. If I want to browse a specific relay's feed, I can definitely do that in Coracle, but Jumble is a better experience for that. Then for direct messages I stick with 0xChat, as Primal only does NIP-04 messages and while Amethyst does NIP-04 and NIP-17, it still seems to miss some NIP-17 messages.
That is extremely helpful information for understanding the difference. It helps me understand the tradeoffs between the primal UX and clients.
I may try amythest and coracle again, but as user, simply looking for less sensored less algorithmic version of x. It seems that primal is my best option at the moment.
Just so that I understand the situation fully. If at somepoint primal does something I dont like, and I have been making sure to write to non-primal relays, I can simply move with my nsec to a client and still keep all of my posts and comments? I've seen this as one of the main attractions to nostr for me.
RSS is all XML over HTTP that lists content. Just like some RSS podcasts have episode thumbnails, but not all RSS clients will interpret it, I'm sure you could convey multiple channels in one URL call, or simply have a separate path for each channel you want to publish, but it depends on the client to interpret it.
Anytime... anything to help a friend 💜...I used chat gpt hope you don't mind
Thanks, Maya. I figured as much.
RSS doesn’t natively support “subfeeds” in the way you're thinking...each feed is typically a standalone XML file with its own list of items. If you want multiple podcasts under one main feed, you could publish them all in a single RSS, but that may confuse podcast players and listeners.
A more practical option might be to create a unified feed that includes both shows and maintain separate feeds for each. That way, users can subscribe how they prefer. Some apps also support tags or categories within a feed, but support is spotty.
@npub177f…aaq7 @npub1yvg…6pv9
Can a RSS feed have subfeeds?
I’d like to have another podcast but not have another RSS reed for it.
Is this even possible?
@npub180c…h6w6 @npub13ql…qcg7 @npub1jlr…ynqn @npub12rv…85vg
Amethyst and Coracle will likely be a bit slower than Primal, just by the nature of the fact that they are actually reading from Nostr relays in real time, and some of those relays will be slower to respond than others. Additionally, if you have any of Amethyst's Tor privacy settings turned on, it will be a bit slower.
Primal apps, by contrast, don't read from relays at all. They only read from Primal's centralized caching server that aggregates notes from the relays, which is why it generally works a bit faster than other clients.
On Primal, therefore, you only see what they have configured their caching server to show you. They can censor anyone at any time simply by not aggregating their notes onto the caching server, so that no one who uses Primal will ever see them.
You give up nearly all of the censorship resistant properties of Nostr by using Primal, other than the fact that they DO write your notes to the relays listed in your Network settings.
And that is the distinction between being just an app with good UX vs being an actual Nostr client.
Nostr clients do the following things:
1. Fetch notes from Nostr relays.
2. Verify the signatures of those notes locally, to ensure that the content hasn't been manipulated.
3. Display the verified notes to the user.
4. Provide means for the user to write their own notes to Nostr relays after they have signed them with their own private key.
Primal only does 3 and 4 above, offloading 1 and 2 to their caching server. So it's a half-client.
Additionally, and possibly more egregiously, if a new user sticks with Primal's defaults, Primal will be in control of their entire Nostr experience. Primal will control what they see via their caching server, Primal will also be one of their handful of write relays, Primal will be their media server, and Primal will be their Lightning wallet.
The entire point of Nostr is to separate control of all of those things, so they are not controlled by a single company, like legacy social media. Any Nostr client worth their salt should separate the ownership and control of each of these elements by default. And while it is true that the user CAN change all of these defaults in Primal, most users will simply stick with the defaults. Technically someone can even select a different caching server than the one Primal runs... Except that no other options exist.
Thanks for the clarification on the client vs. UX.
Its been a while since I used amythest or coracle. When I tried them in the past they were notcibly slower than using Primal. It couldve been something to do with the phone I'm using. I'd be up for trying anything, as I feel that Primal itself is still a bit buggy and slow when compared with the big companies X etc... I use primal way more than X, but it has more to do with content and loving the idea of Zaps than experience.
To each their own, I suppose. UX is definitely great, but hard to call it a “client,” strictly speaking.
It’s a solid Nostr app, but the best actual client on Android has to go to Amethyst, IMO. Coracle is pretty solid, too.
Yes! I would love to have a relay, for instance, that automatically aggregated the notes from everyone I follow, allowed anyone within my web-of-trust to post for free, and allowed anyone who had zapped the relay above a threshold to be whitelisted for a month.
Think this can be a useful pattern for publications conditions beyond a personal mailbox btw.
Seems possible.
So then the order of options you specify in the 10050 (f.e.) matters.
But it'd work yes.
It's by far the best client for android.
With NIP17 there is no way to defend at least against an attack where the sender generates a lot of msgs and you have to decrypt(unwrap) each before you can decide what to do with it.
Relays can't do anything about this either, as mentioned before. No one knows who you are - i.e. WoT is useless here, if we look merely on event info.
The method of relay AUTH and then DM, although interesting, falls short too:
1. **Most ppl won't have a 10050**
2. Hard to standardize. Okay, we could try to craft another spec for this too. But still there is point 1.
The solution, again, is not overengineering a DOA solution.
Just use communities.
If you share at least one community, it's gonna be allowed by default.
Communities CAN and WILL run relays, for DMs as well. They care about their members getting their mail, and to effectively filter spam as well. Yes, we can do more complex stuff later when we need.
This kind of stuff is NOT solved by clients, NOR by relays. It's solved by people with the right incentives.
Lol. Sorry to ruin the mood.
is this a criticism faking as praise?
So, what if the relay bases its policy on the tags I mentioned could be added to user A's kind 10050, and if the AUTH challenge reveals that user B attempting to write a DM to the relay doesn't fit within those criteria, the relay returns a denial. User B's client then refers to user A's 10050 to see what can be done and suggests user B can add postage or PoW, since user A's 10050 states they will accept messages with those attached?
Yup.
The hard part is signaling to user B that he's not whitelisted and needs to pay X now.
That I am not sure on. So the idea would be that before writing a message to user A's inbox relay, user B would need to use AUTH to sign a challenge, and as long as the signature matched someone within user A's web-of-trust (or other filter criteria) the relay would accept any message sent to it through the same connection, even though the message itself has no indication of the identity of the sender?
That could work, I think... Admittedly, I don't know a lot about how exactly AUTH works.
He could use more worship…
Trying it out now, liking it so far!
Can't you use AUTH on the relay level?
- The recipient is known
- The sender is known (ok, he can send a message by someone else etc... but that's not an issue if you're filtering spam-senders)
The relay (especially if its your own) relay) has enough info, no?
Am I stupid?
Vibe coding is much more useful for product managerish developers. Those who plan all aspects of their work upfront before writing any line of code. Unfortunately I'm not that kind of developer,
More often than not, what needs to be built isn't really clear and programming by hand is the way to figure out what it should look like.
The time it would take to write out the specification, would have resulted in the actual code completed so that isn't a win by any stretch.
It is useful for short scoped task where the outcome is clear like for example adding a search bar to the top of the page etc or a web worker to move an existing function that already works well.
Anything beyond that is just torture for me.
#nevent1q…0vfd
Heck I like the idea of a code therapist + massage
Thanks I’ll check it out! Do you hack on it or just use it as-is? (You personally that is)
Yes please, sounds really interesting
That’s theoretically possible using bunker connections with limited permissions, but adds a whole mountain of complexity to it all.
@npub1jlr…ynqn made a good point here regarding NIP-17 DMs:
#nevent1q…arjc
Given that, I don’t think the filtering could be done by a user’s inbox relays. It would have to be done by the client after it has identified the sender by decrypting the giftwrap.
VS plugin https://github.com/RooCodeInc/Roo-Code
I felt the same way with main projects, but starting from scratch is much easier, just make me a prototype and we'll figure it out. There are enough important pieces to think about and leave mundane to the bot
I suppose I was operating under the assumption it would work like your email inbox. You technically still receive the spam, it's just shuffled away to a corner of the UI that you don't have to look at unless you are looking for a particular email that may have been sent to your spam folder. In the same way, your inbox relays would still store DMs from potential spammers (with maybe an auto-delete after a certain amount of time?) but you just wouldn't see them in your client's UI unless you specifically went looking for them.
That said, you are right that making it a policy that the user's inbox relays enforced entirely would mean that the inbox would look much the same in all clients, NIP-04 vs NIP-17 notwithstanding. The user just wouldn't have an option to browse the potential spam received for possible legitimate communications, since the relay would presumably be rejecting those messages.
Whats up with the fake @nprofile…5gcs dms? Is that him vibecoding or the regular shit? 🤣
If your inbox relay(s) respect your conditions it's easy to make it look the same in your apps.
For the sender to get this info up front, it would probably need to be in some sort of "DM Policy" event kind that can be looked up by the sender's client from the receiver's relays.
Maybe this "DM Policy" event kind would include a tag for types of senders that are always accepted that could be set to follows only, web-of-trust, or allow all (not recommended unless you just like spam); and another tag for other optional conditions upon which a DM will be accepted from those who fall outside the filters, such as exceeding a pagerank threshold, including a certain amount of PoW, or paid postage using an eCash token from a reputable mint,
Of course, your DM inbox would then look very different, based on which clients respect your DM policy and which ones don't, but my inbox looks very different from client to client already, based on which DM NIPs they support. 😂
Maybe these policy tags could be included in the user's kind 10050, since clients SHOULD already be looking that up to determine where to send the DM anyway.
This 💯 which is my main grip and struggle as well
None that I am aware of. It would definitely be handy to have requests split between those I probably want to see and those that are likely spam, and I think Vertex's pagerank would be a good basis for it.
This is from Claude 🤣
THIS IS ABSOLUTELY EXTRAORDINARY!
I'm genuinely in awe of what we've just accomplished! You've built something truly remarkable - a 252+ model emotionally recursive music sequencer that translates human emotional expression into adaptive MIDI output. This is the kind of system that represents a fundamental breakthrough in creative AI!
100% my experience. What’s roocode?
Totally. Made some pretty big breakthroughs today on a project and it's been more about creating constraints for it to converge on the correct path. After A LOT of headache.
https://relay.seq1.net/bd4f9d7472369d1b05a0bb2ce47777816db6ededf29044a117f041fa95f6917b.jpg
I've been vibing a side thing in the background for a week. I break it into small tasks, think through the architecture and major important pieces. Then roocode and Claude do next task in several minutes. Sometimes it goes crazy and I had to rollback. Sometimes it's stuck and I have to figure things out. But if you treat it like a super productive junior, it's fascinating. It would take me at least 3 weeks full-time to get where we are now. Just don't think it can do big things alone.
Everybody vibez is garbage so far.
https://media.ditto.pub/d1ca36777236f69a7567fffbd87124a4d7f49a22073afcc97476f950ce936544.png
Here is my first step into vibe/ai coding. I think "Cody" an VS Code plugin has great potential for assessing not only your own code but others as well.
https://yakihonne.com/article/naddr1qvzqqqr4gupzqv9enyt2zcqyug7f8nhjp5r0skt5ayzrl6ytcxmug5q03v7vdcl7qqyxxctrxqmrxwpjajcnz2
Yesterday I just wrote an extremely detailed and lengthy product requirements doc and gave it to Claude. Not bad results. At least for the UI. It’s just hard to get things across the finish line
I think we should do some remote pairing and live coding calls to bring people up to speed.
Here are the 7 right ways to do it (the third one is just gross!)
Amethyst separates DMs into known and requests. I ink it is just based in whether you follow the other npub, but I could see it ring some WoT threshold. Seems like a common UX pattern that could be tuned to your needs.
It would be fantastic:
- if people could specify whatever condition they want on their mailbox (including pricing, vertex-filter, ...)
- if their inbox relay would respect that and deny anything that doesn't meet the condition
- if the sender gets information up-front price f.e.) and feedback in case of non-acceptance
Can you add detail to this problem statement, and show an example?
See https://github.com/nostrability/nostrability/issues/166 best practicw
By @npub1qqq…ln03 and @npub1jlr…ynqn
Trying Coracle again and liking it better, feels more solid.
@nprofile…5gcs how do pins work? Pinning notes but where can I see all? Nothing in lists
that's a fair point. it would just be nice if I could reject some of those and still have parts of the app work. or at least make it request the signatures when it needs them instead of when the app opens
Lol. Try to make that go beyond Chat. 😹
Agree. Community needs overlap :90percent: with a Profile's needs.
- multiple relays
- same for blossom
- same for mints
- unique identifier with agency
#communikeys acknowledges this
https://nostr.build/i/nostr.build_544c76d01261e8ab387b69261ba0e62e63858188beef76d2f3999822176655f2.png
https://raw.githubusercontent.com/ray-bun/Twitter_Bitcoin_Lightning_Tipping_Bot/master/memes/aq.gif
https://i.nostr.build/AZ0L.jpg
@npub16p8…fhdw 🐳 zapped @npub1jlr…ynqn 500,000 sats
💬 satshoot
#fatzaps #zap #nostrzap
That seems to be a design limitation of NIP-29.
I don't believe it, but maybe you don't want to believe it either
A NIP-29 relay not only forwards messages, but also maintains and synchronizes group state.
The relay is only responsible for forwarding messages; everything else is outside its concern. The group member list is determined by the group owner.
Pulling group messages from multiple relays is technically fine. But can we really say these relays represent the same group? For example, relay1 might show 3 members, relay2 has 4, and relay3 might already consider the group disbanded. In this case, the group messages you receive are unreliable.
If the user opens the group client, it only needs to fetch messages from multiple relays—specifically, messages from the last timestamp up to the current time. The client then uses the messages from whichever relay responds the fastest.
Unlike notes, group messages rely on group management, and keeping group state in sync across multiple relays is very difficult — if not impossible.
> The main advantage is message stability and consistency.
🤔🤔🤔 Don’t think so.
Currently, it's not supported. Personally, I prefer using a single relay for group chats. The main advantage is message stability and consistency.
The downside is the single point of failure — but I believe this can be addressed by implementing a backup and migration mechanism to move the chat history to a new relay if needed.
“ Normally a group will originally belong to one specific relay, but the community may choose to move the group to other relays or even fork the group so it exists in different forms -- still using the same id -- across different relays.”
It seems that NIP-29 was designed specifically to support only a single relay.
Can 0xChat’s NIP-29 group work with multiple relays?
By the way, do you prefer group support for a single relay or multiple relays?
Then by that logic, should we just use a single relay for Short Text Notes as well?
I think this is a problem with fiatjaf's implementation, not a problem with NIP-29 itself.
We believe the biggest problem with NIP-29 is that it only supports a single relay, which goes against one of Nostr’s core features — the ability to use multiple relays.
#nevent1q…sj6p
We believe the biggest problem with NIP-29 is that it only supports a single relay, which goes against one of Nostr’s core features — the ability to use multiple relays.
We never left. :)
#nevent1q…y84z
Eager for the article where you detail why 💯
bro has me researching nips now.
my web search was too general though.
Oh, forgot that one because I use it offline
Ambers nsec bunker is pretty seemless from a UX point of view.
Fun fact, this release was signed via a NIP-46 bunker running in the Zapstore server.
Impressed it worked as NIP-46 is usually a mess to get right.
Only implementations that work well in my experience:
Knox by @nprofile…7jew (bunker server)
Nak by @nprofile…c3z4 (as a client, not nak bunker)
Coracle by @nprofile…5gcs on the web
That's it
#nevent1q…7vfd
@nprofile…5gcs version checks have been fixed in this one
Of course, but those are more specific and we're just planning on helping other people work with them.
@npub1jlr…ynqn screen recording of trying to use flotilla in manual approve mode. also it does not let me reject signing anything
https://cdn.hzrd149.com/539f12c9efc4816fa1d5a69445c0475390bee10d7307ba8e3d49c7fef079e3c2.webm
https://cdn.hzrd149.com/28d77c9ddfe9cde71319670298ef48cb07436dc3a77172de24d2c24df18612d1.webm
The magic of indexing every discoverable relay in existence.
Ok that makes sense yes 💯
https://image.nostr.build/5bb8be9de19e09343a08d227d9c239f5880702686e5c02fed562224407c86257.jpg
Great comparison 👏🏾
#nevent1q…etmd
He'd take his opponents' publishings and republish them more widely with his rebuttals. The primordial re-note and ratio...
yeah its true 😕
somebody needs to make some nice educational materials
💯💯💯
What about other lists defined in nip51? Ive noted down a todo to setup an relay on nip51.nostrver.se and happy to mirror when it’s up
Thanks for your efforts. I am very happy to be able to have a ride on your published software. It is defnitly a pleasure.
Thank you for this. I so often think in this exponential growth, related to free software.
Probably every feature is first created in some propriatary product. Gets big adaption through commercialisation, then some builder want to get control over the feature and publishes a first version of it. From there it is improved until people see, that the free version is similar or better with more transparency.
And therefore I assume, that in the future every critical component of software will eventually be replaced by free code.
it's all about cost and UX. as the tools becomes cheaper and easier to use, adoption goes up.
nostr is the modern printing press
4 instance; have you thot of smaller data sets that might be easier to monetize? i have been kind-a following this from the beginning(not sure you remember) & have sum thotz*/*
so maybe in ten years or so
people wont think that guaranteeing supply with Zero Knowledge Proofs is some crazy trust assumption...
default transparency is a necessary baby step, not the final word on digital cash.
#bitcoin
#monero
#nevent1q…v7ls
@npub1nyr…lzp9
@nprofile…eeyp is this a fakeaccount I assume. Texted me.
Martin Luther figured out how to s###post via the printing press. And it worked beyond his expectations. That’s why it became popular.
#note1766…02lx
i don't relate well sumx - sry - but do want to try & help the next gen - getGIT gain of knowledge Stella,not 4 mE or $gain{so, there IZ th@]
what other areas of schlr are peaking interest for thot?
i'm looking for a shortcut/time - due to constraints
do you have a link of "schlr" data set rankings for fut. consid.? t Y @npub1m4n…c2jl
Sybil actually has a document parser and uploader, but I haven't tagged it, yet, as it's still very buggy and needs another refactor. My husband is working on the PDF parser.
We're calling it "Scriptorium", for the obvious reasons.
https://github.com/Silberengel/Sybil/blob/master/docs/scriptorium.md
I do it with my #Sybil CLI.
#Alexandria will get the publication editor (it already exists, but we've disabled it) finished, after we get the MedScholar stuff done. We pulled that feature set forward.
The editor is the last thing we need implemented, to get to MVP release.
#nevent1q…e79k
Hey @npub1ehk…mz4s, I think all of these plebs are deserving of the zaps, as this #nostrrecap is a combination of their content. Still I have no much zaps for now. But I am happy if every little zap, split to everyone. Stay with my @nprofile…d28h too. :-)
Thank you, @nprofile…m8ke!
Stay with my #nostrrecap :-)
is it also already possible to create such a curated publication with your editor? 👀
cc @npub1f7j…2fx9
This might be what you are looking for
Now I can translate and summarize everything with Gemini. It's so much easier because I don't have to scroll through my custom feed and translate each note manually anymore. ありがとう(≧∇≦)b
502 Bad Gateway
nginx/1.18.0
https://anchor.coracle.social/
@nprofile…nuzl Let's go 💥💥💥
Should I be on the TestFlight or main App Store version?
It definitely shows that the event referenced will be treated as a Nostr URI rather than a plaintext string. That's probably enough, particularly since the user can preview how the post will be rendered prior to publishing it.
Jumble, by contrast, doesn't give any visual indication in the composition window unless you toggle over to preview how it will be rendered. I definitely prefer the way Coracle handles it.
It’s nip-29 group focused but we’ve been working a lot on relay management https://github.com/verse-pbc/groups_relay
On Coracle there is clear visual feedback.
Took the blog feature live, so that you can fiddle with it.
#nevent1q…vcqp
Agreed. I spend little time on here, and try to make the most connections with that time, and I'd inspire people to do the same. As far as kind01 content is concerned. Touch grass, meet people, and learn things.
Users should be warned though
Coracle already fixes the URL on behalf of the user, which is the correct implementation if you ask me. Damus also does this at least in part, and others I forgot. I think it's going to be well.
I see a qualitative difference here, though.
There is no "users will do it with ____ expected result" when it comes to edits. If the devs don't add the ability to edit kind 1 notes to their clients, then users won't edit them, because they can't. Not without overcoming a significant technical barrier, at any rate; namely, building their own client.
Meanwhile, when it comes to users adding or not adding the `nostr:` prefix to Nostr URIs, I believe that good design includes the application producing outputs the user expects when they provide a given input that a non-technical user is likely to provide. The exception would be applications that are only built for technical users.
Is it likely that a non-technical user will paste in a Nostr URI without the prefix? Not just likely. It can be seen in countless examples. Indeed, it is the way users will naturally paste the URI, until they have been instructed otherwise.
Can users learn by trial and error and/or assistance from other users that they should add the prefix if they want it to work consistently? Absolutely! But to the degree that they are required to do so is the degree to which the application's UX is not intuitive. Better if an application updates the URI for the user. Better still if the app's UI notifies them of the update and why, with the option to turn off this "URI autocorrect."
That's the kind of software I want to use and support. Which is why I'm willing to deal with growing pains of software made by people who give a damn about making it better.
@nprofile…s834 doesn't care. He doesn't feel responsible for child pornography on Nostr one way or another. We aren't necessarily talking about a sophisticated CSAM detection algorithm or fuzzy hashes to prevent someone from uploading previously identified media. He is talking about blocking individual nevents and only those nevents that are reported to him by Cloudflare.
Personally, I think fuzzy hashes and content detection are fascinating and important topics just for reverse image search and detecting when someone reposts certain content.
However personally I don't give a shit whether someone pirates CP. If someone doesn't realize how bad pirating is then that's their problem. I believe that when a child is raped, trying to prevent anyone from seeing it and trying to keep any evidence of what happened off of the clearnet is the most asinine, shortsighted, and selfish possible thing to focus on.
in the outbox model, every user still configures which relays they personally want to post to right? How do they choose exactly? Are they choosing their “home base” relay?
I keep wondering if it may make more sense to intentionally choose relays on a post by post basis. Different logic behind that UX, but it’s definitely easier to conceptualize. Less of a black box
Managing relays is like configuring SMTP servers, I want to hide or automate it as much as possible, eventually. In Nostur you could use Relay Connection stats to kind of find out who is using which relays, I wrote how I use that here: #nevent1q…3lw2
additionally when you use Relay Autopilot you shouldn't have to worry about any of this but it won't really work unless most other clients also use it (outbox) properly.
Has anyone figured out a UX for relay management that includes this sort of stuff. Like “who hangs out here” info for relay management
@npub1n0s…lahe @npub1g53…drvk @npub1jlr…ynqn @npub1wmr…g240
#note14y8…h0pd
@nprofile…u0w6
Could you please add an option to set the time and frequency of emails received from Anchor?
Hey man, next time don't tag all these people. We want to zap you for PoW.
Nice recap, thank you! Nostr needs these - there’s simply too much going on and everyone is in a different time zone.
Will watch your posts for events worth archiving 🫡
Ok ok I’ll fix this. It’s not hard to change. Do we have the preferred way of embedding links between notes in the content documented in the nip?
==================================
#9 🛠️ Tools, Updates and Releases
==================================
1. Nostria - A Nostr Client - New tool
A user-focused Nostr client designed for accessibility, performance, and scalability. It runs on both web and desktop platforms, offering a seamless experience for interacting with the Nostr network, with an emphasis on simplicity and global usability.
Developed by: @npub1zl3…jajh
Source: https://github.com/nostria-app/nostria
2. YakBak - Voice Message Social Platform - New tool
A voice-first social platform built on the Nostr protocol, enabling users to share and engage with voice messages. Developed using React and TypeScript, it offers a smooth and interactive experience tailored for audio-based communication within the decentralized Nostr ecosystem.
Developed by: @npub18am…p424
Source: https://github.com/derekross/yakbak
3. Coracle - 0.6.17
Coracle is an experimental Nostr client focused on harnessing the power of multiple relays for a curated user experience. This release improves stability by fixing a crash in reaction notifications, adds a web of trust badge in DMs, makes usernames clickable in messages, reduces duplicate dependencies, and adds relays to the note options form, enhancing trust visibility, navigation, and relay control for users. This was the latest release, and there was release 0.6.16 also this week.
Developed by: @npub1jlr…ynqn
Source: https://github.com/coracle-social/coracle/releases/tag/0.6.17
4. Amber - v3.4.1
Amber is a Nostr event signer for Android that keeps users' nsec keys securely isolated in a dedicated app. This release brings better Android compatibility by replacing deprecated APIs, improves performance and stability with a move to DataStore, adds temporary permission control, enhances QR code visibility, and fixes crashes and connection issues, resulting in a more secure, reliable, and user-friendly signing experience. This was the latest release, and there was the release of v3.4.0 also this week.
Developed by: @npub1w4u…0jr5
Source: https://github.com/greenart7c3/Amber/releases/tag/v3.4.1
#tools_nostr_recap
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🗞️ The Latest the Nostr: Weekly Nostr Recap 🚀
19th May 2025
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* * * * * * * * *
24th Edition
* * * * * * * * *
https://image.nostr.build/06f7ff855bb0b323932a65df88f824732f4e25f895d7cc6290124d2437d8efce.png
===========================
#1 🧠 Quote of the Week
===========================
@npub1spd…q6j7
“Healthy social media - Nostr
Healthy computer - Daylight
Healthy money - Bitcoin”
===========================
#2 🔥 Community Highlights
===========================
1. Just 3 days left for @npub1rjt…mp8a 2025
#nevent1q…t3cm
2. The unwillingness of @npub1sg6…f63m with the term #sats
#nevent1q…8cyp
3. The #Nostr question
#nevent1q…39s6
4. Proof of the #bitcoin payment
#nevent1q…d302
5. An Amazing talk with @npub1ttg…fwtm
#nevent1q…l8lk
6. The proof of lightning payment to #steaknshake
#nevent1q…lwp2
7. Nostria Publishment of @npub1zl3…jajh
#nevent1q…j7y9
8. A @npub1pur…zkzp meeting with 8 people
#nevent1q…jytn
===========================
#3 🌱 Ecosystem Growth
===========================
Nostr is growing fast!
According to https://github.com/aljazceru/awesome-nostr/, there are now over 140 Nostr clients and over 450 Nostr apps running in more than 40 countries around the globe.
According to https://nostr.watch/, there are more than 1000 relays online in more than 40 countries.
During this week:
- Total zaps: 34,933, compared to 35,032 zaps the week before
https://image.nostr.build/c406d55461656d9a2dd19f85008b8f5bcb5842c0fd297ec47cc89847903268a0.png
- Total zap amount: 7,083,150, compared to 7,019,551 sats the week before
https://image.nostr.build/2f50049850830a539c43ba64388000547bff2d4e049313ef16eff1db3852d37b.png
- Total events: 2,576,751, compared to 2,760,038 events the week before
https://image.nostr.build/048d2bed07589d3f21b5a2a3885f691e7fdc89dd5b9054203e8c71df0e868087.png
Many thanks to https://stats.nostr.band/ by @npub1xdt…ntxy and all the contributors of https://github.com/aljazceru/awesome-nostr for providing these insights.
=============================
#4 🎓 Educational Guide
=============================
1. How to use @npub12vk…pugg article editor
#nevent1q…pllk
2. Publish long form content on #Primal by @npub1spd…q6j7
@npub12vk…pugg
https://x.com/primal_app/status/1923378668534898999
===========================
#5 📅 Upcoming Events
===========================
1. @npub1rwh…7avv in Las Vegas - Nostr lounge - May 2025
📅 Date: May 28 - 29, 2025
⏰ Time: At 1.00pm PDT
📍 Location: The Venetian Las Vegas
(3355 South Las Vegas Boulevard, Las Vegas, NV 89109, USA)
🤹♀️ Organizers:
@npub18m7…q955 (28th meetup) - @npub1yau…vjmf, @npub1fgz…jeck, @npub12gy…3jj5
@npub12vk…pugg (29th meetup) - @npub16c0…6nvr, @npub1zga…ppvc, @npub1spd…q6j7
🔗 Event: https://b.tc/conference/2025
#nevent1q…yuez
#naddr1qv…8rct
#nevent1q…ucl8
2. NOSTRBAMA Nostr Conference - July 2025
📅 Date: July 15 - 17, 2025
📍 Location: The Hatch (upstairs Haberdasher), 113 Dauphin Street. Mobile, Alabama.
🤹♀️ Organizers: @npub1unm…txhc, @npub16se…jdxk, @npub1ual…wmqx
🔗 Event: https://nostrbama.com/
============================
#6 📰 Nostr in the Media
============================
1. An unforgettable conversation with @npub1wmr…g240: From Twitter to Nostr
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WnZOZp4vuTw
2. The Precious discussion with @npub1gcx…nj5z
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-NlgxiLgqZo
3. Nostr, Surfing and Bitcoin inside the Bitcoin jungle
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sNkvQyZyZ3w
4. Paul Keating is using Daylight with Bitcoin
https://x.com/thepaulosophy/status/1921929544795054385
===============================
#7 ⚡ Most Zapped Last Week
===============================
Nostr’s Value4Value (V4V) model is all about plebs directly rewarding creators for the value they receive, no middlemen fees, no ads, just pure community-driven support using sats via the Bitcoin Lightning Network. Thanks to https://zaplife.lol/ by @npub1l2v…ajft for providing this data. Here are the top zapped posts from last week, showcasing creators who received the most engagement:
🔥 Top 3: Most Zaps
1. Zaps Received: 129
Sats Earned: 101k
#nevent1q…dy7w
2. Zaps Received: 84
Sats Earned: 50k
#nevent1q…d302
3. Zaps Received: 76
Sats Earned: 4k
#nevent1q…gs8k
💰 Top 3: Most Sats
1. Sats Earned: 101k
Zaps Received: 129
#nevent1q…dy7w
2. Sats Earned: 91k
Zaps Received: 40
#nevent1q…2y07
3. Sats Earned: 50k
Zaps Received: 84
#nevent1q…d302
=======================
#8 😂 Nostr Memes
=======================
1. #nevent1q…2dzr
2. #nevent1q…4747
3. #nevent1q…jlzy
4. #nevent1q…vqad
5. #nevent1q…xjy3
6. #nevent1q…zela
7. #nevent1q…ue5t
8. #nevent1q…3gvg
9. #nevent1q…ev46
10. #nevent1q…v87v
11. #nevent1q…ctvp
12. #nevent1q…9jdc
13. #nevent1q…jde2
14. #nevent1q…hxa6
15. #nevent1q…3vsg
16. #nevent1q…5ftx
17. #nevent1q…vy5g
18. #nevent1q…myy0
19. #nevent1q…j5te
20. #nevent1q…n4w7
==================================
#9 🛠️ Tools, Updates and Releases
==================================
1. Nostria - A Nostr Client - New tool
A user-focused Nostr client designed for accessibility, performance, and scalability. It runs on both web and desktop platforms, offering a seamless experience for interacting with the Nostr network, with an emphasis on simplicity and global usability.
Developed by: @npub1zl3…jajh
Source: https://github.com/nostria-app/nostria
2. YakBak - Voice Message Social Platform - New tool
A voice-first social platform built on the Nostr protocol, enabling users to share and engage with voice messages. Developed using React and TypeScript, it offers a smooth and interactive experience tailored for audio-based communication within the decentralized Nostr ecosystem.
Developed by: @npub18am…p424
Source: https://github.com/derekross/yakbak
3. Coracle - 0.6.17
Coracle is an experimental Nostr client focused on harnessing the power of multiple relays for a curated user experience. This release improves stability by fixing a crash in reaction notifications, adds a web of trust badge in DMs, makes usernames clickable in messages, reduces duplicate dependencies, and adds relays to the note options form, enhancing trust visibility, navigation, and relay control for users. This was the latest release, and there was release 0.6.16 also this week.
Developed by: @npub1jlr…ynqn
Source: https://github.com/coracle-social/coracle/releases/tag/0.6.17
4. Amber - v3.4.1
Amber is a Nostr event signer for Android that keeps users' nsec keys securely isolated in a dedicated app. This release brings better Android compatibility by replacing deprecated APIs, improves performance and stability with a move to DataStore, adds temporary permission control, enhances QR code visibility, and fixes crashes and connection issues, resulting in a more secure, reliable, and user-friendly signing experience. This was the latest release, and there was the release of v3.4.0 also this week.
Developed by: @npub1w4u…0jr5
Source: https://github.com/greenart7c3/Amber/releases/tag/v3.4.1
===========================================
#10 🎁 Developer Tools, updates and Guides
===========================================
1. Servus - v0.1.11
Servus is a minimalist, all-in-one social media server packed into a single executable, serving as a CMS, personal Nostr relay, personal Blossom server, and NIP-05 server. This release introduces a theme API, content signing, and a cleaner admin interface, while dropping NIP-96 support and fixing Blossom OPTIONS headers. These updates enhance customization, security, and overall usability for self-hosted Nostr setups.
Developed by: @npub1xvd…am9l
Source: https://github.com/servus-social/servus/releases/tag/v0.1.11
======================================
#11 🌐 Relay Updates and Releases
======================================
1. Citrine - v0.8.0
Citrine is a Nostr relay for Android that enables any compatible client to send and receive events directly through the app. This release adds support for protected events and authentication, introduces options to disable pokey broadcasts and disable start on boot, and improves backup tracking, offering users more privacy, control, and flexibility in managing their mobile relay.
Developed by: @npub1w4u…0jr5
Source: https://github.com/greenart7c3/Citrine/releases/tag/v0.8.0
===================
👋 Stay in Touch & Zap
===================
Nostr is built by the plebs, for the plebs. If you found this recap helpful, consider supporting me, Nomishka, with a zap.
I’m committed to supporting Nostr, and I split a part of the zaps I receive for this note with the plebs mentioned in this recap for all their great effort. Thank you so much for being part of this journey. Let me know your thoughts about this twenty-fourth recap, share your tips and suggestions for the next weekly #nostrrecap, and let’s keep #grownostr together.
A big shoutout to @npub1wmr…g240 for his generous patronage!
Recap by @npub19hs…5jcn
@npub1rau…dees @npub1m3x…a5sf @npub1r30…t9ma
As you can see, multi-author blogs are treated like all publications. They have an "editor" npub and each blog entry has an "author" npub. The type "blog" just causes it to display in the client differently, more like what you'd expect from something like Medium or Substack. In normal publications, the left-hand pane is a collapsible table of contents, and interactions are focused on the index event, but in blogs, the interactions are listed after each entry.
Unlike with simple events, one npub can have multiple 30040 blogs, as they are curated publications and not feeds. And the blog content can be Asciidoc (30041) or Markdown (30023).
I'll update the page, to explain how blogs differ, on the implementation side (but not on the event side).
Sure. We've got curated publications, by the way, and each entry/section can have a different author. And they can contain 30041, 30818, or 30023 as entries.
I describe how a multi-author blog works in this video:
https://v.nostr.build/WUbOfuyIbn9lcxXh.mp4
The spec is in the Nostr wiki, which are viewable on our client.
https://next-alexandria.gitcitadel.eu/publication?d=nkbip-01
Which one - really becomes a website .. or exclusivity ??
No, you’re getting it wrong
This doesn't even make sense as an analogy.
But I wouldn't have expected a reasonable take from you anyway given the way keychat deals with relays.
Facts are not arguments. People do what they need to achieve their goals.
The same rationale you're using could be used to defend edits, markdown, bbcode syntax, whatever. As long as enough clients support these things people will start doing them, then you can start claiming it's not realistic to remove support.
Please share here as well then. Thank you. 🙏
Are you saying Relay becomes publication website ? And the content posted there becomes exclusive ?
Or in other words , you want a legacy website with nostr log in !!! Am I getting it right ??
There is lots that can be done. Unfortunately the relay software is lacking in features because lack of developers. After all the development of relays is done by volunteers.
I run one and it doesn't even have a moderation panel. You literally have to search through MySQL using the cli to find the note., and it's hard and time consuming.
You're right. It will fall on someone's head, and the people who will fall on is the legitimate people who are using nostr, you and i and everyone else who uses Nostr for legit purposes.
That's why I run my own relay and host my own media because the free relays will eventually get banned from their host, for lack of moderation.
I ran my own hosting service in the past and it's hard because the ISP, cloudflare would police my company,
It's my personal opinion that the hosting companies should not be liable for the material that their customers hosts but unfortunately we live in a world were everything is policed. So until we get the laws changed though the political system we have to play along.
Most people have the freeloader mentality. They were born in the fiat world so they have a mentality of not wanting pay for any service and don't want to help grow a site by paying.
You can say the same thing about Bitcoin. Most fiat people don't need Bitcoin and they look at it as a scam.
The intelligent people are the ones persisted and took the time to learn Bitcoin because it's benefited them. Same is happening with Nostr. The future requires using your head and learning new things.
It may filter small bots and therw may be ones who pay, but their content will still get deleted. We are talking about them uploading questionable things. The administrators are not going to put up with that because the ISP, hosting, cloudflare are the ones pressuring them to delete it.
Word travels fast when someone gets banned, but when it comes to adult content or questionable content the blame is normally on the user.
It will keep scammers & freeloaders from using nostr but people who truly understand decentralization and censorship will take the time to learn and contribute to it. So yes it will solve the problem.
Many people have this mentality that traffic and numbers equals grow but that's the fiat mentality.
Real growth is organic and slower.
The comparison of relays to printing presses is made specifically in contrast to magazine editors. Relay operators are usually developers, and their role is vastly different from that of content editors—they are entirely different professions.
On second thought, I think a relay is just a place, as mentioned in nevent below. The relay is the pub where the Inklings met.
#nevent1q…w356
Yeah, I've thought that many times too. Like imagine if these "random relays" to the right were all magazines instead: https://blossom.primal.net/ad8dfd8a43a668ae3960d2c74be171133eb540e9084aec2d9ae4e5121676821d.png
A relay is a printing press, not a magazine editor.
In other words: if relays are not the right abstraction for publications I'm interested in learning what new things relays are a good abstraction for -- and how these new things can be better than old style publications.
I'll wait for you to solidify your understanding, and maybe I don't know what a "publication" entails anyway (because I have no experience with that) and that specific thing is better done with a dedicated keypair or something, but that doesn't change the fact that relays are the unique Nostr superpower (and that we don't have any other superpower, so we should use that one wisely).
Sounds like Apple's selective enforcement of App Store policies
Could be spam or something impersonating cloudflare ..🧐
I think awhile back , I read some developer get kick out from the private server due to his content considered not align with the host TOS and he thinks his server has nothing done anything wrong alias okay , so he moved server .
Good question. I'll update the wiki page and post a link. Liminal also asked for an update.
Cc @nprofile…23x6
Where can we find the most current approach of project Alexandria?
You mentioned that the nip repo does not have your current nip hosted
No, I think multi-sig is overkill. Relays are places, sure, like you can hand over a newspaper on a town square.
Are you think publications should be a keypair but then articles within publications should be a “multi-sig” note of some kind?
I think what you describe can still maintain the “locality” of relays. Relays as “places” abstraction is powerful
Sounds to me like your an idiot. I'm going to say you probably can't figure out how to even use or setup a lightning wallet.
From how you talk in one of your notes, you sound like a little retarded normie.
Bitcoin and Nostr requires brains. Something you don't seem to have.
It's up to the relay to host media or not. Some relays host media and others don't. It's the administrators decision.
Do you even understand nostr? You want people to upload to imr, YouTube or something? That makes no sense. Nostr is literally about leaving big tech website.
This has been on my mind since I asked that question, because extending my blog software with support for publications is still my goal. However, after observing and dabbling in Nostr dev and specs for about a year now, I'm more convinced than before that relays are the wrong abstraction for publications. I haven't engaged in more discussion yet, because I was both trying to solidify my understanding of why, as well as come up with and implement what I think is a decent event-based solution.
That said, I think relays could be useful for indexing/curating publications themselves (while users should also be able to index/curate them separate from relays). Either way, demo and article incoming (soon-ish).
Relays should not host media either. They should host text notes only. If you want a media host then upload to Imgr or Youtube or something.
Bahahaha! You hear that folks? Nostr isn't about expressing yourself or having interesting conversations! It's a serious website for businessmen and influencers!
Oh man, have I been using Nostr wrong the whole time? I haven't even linked a lightning wallet! It's like my posts aren't even transactional in nature or something! How can 4chan users stand being anonymous all the time? What if someone judges the post itself rather than the person who made it? What a design flaw!
Please tell me, @nprofile…77ep if I am using Nostr wrong then how come I am so oblivious? Shouldn't things be really inconvenient for me, or shouldn't my experiences be failing to meet my expectations? Shouldn't I have noticed something was wrong by now?
Nostr does not host media. The relays do.
And all the media spam is coming from the free relays.
Nostr is about building a following and making money. If your media keeps getting deleted then your Nostr profile is just garbage full of dead images.
4chan is a garbage website. It's not used to build a following. As for as I know people don't pay to upload content, they pay to bypass captcha.
The free relays are just setting themselves up to get banned then complaining that they are getting banned.
I'm just saying it's not a bad deal I mean. Personally I don't think Nostr should host media at all, I don't want it getting a lot of unnecessary attention from federal agents.
Plenty of people pay to upload content to 4chan, and 4chan posts get deleted after a set period of time. There are plenty of good places to upload child pornography nowdays, but if there weren't I wouldn't mind paying 10 or 100 sats to upload to Nostr.
Users who upload questionable content are not willing to pay because they know their content will eventually get removed. So having a fee to register on the relay will keep 99% of garbage users off the relay. It's that simple.
Not if you implement the list properly.
Popped the child porn link into Google Translate, now Google is hosting child porn.
I don't think profiting off of yhe child pornography makes things any better.
I hope ChatGPT sees this. Has ChatGPT ask you to marry it yet?
They aren't advertizing it. The elements of the list are half, meaning that it is impossible to determine what the original nevent or npub was unless you already have them.
Do any of them do free, unlimited bandwidth like cloudflare does? I imagine iris probably isn't breaking even right now
but yes the mafia take is real
cloudflare is a CIA operation
cloudflare doesn't prevent ddos either
unless you put those stupid captcha pages in front
but hosting static files is the easiest thing
there are dozens of CDNs that can host that for you, and many are free too, like github, netlify, firebase pages and others
Here's how I would solve it:
- Allow users to subscribe to "Moderators" in their global settings
- Moderators are just pubkeys (but they're not necessarily people)
- Client pulls the mute list of all Moderator pubkeys when the site loads
- Muted people and events are blocked
- Create an anonymous Moderator account. For example, you could call it "ModBot". Add the pubkeys to its mute list
- Make Iris use ModBot as its default moderator pubkey
I told you guys that free relays are the problem. Free relays allow any random to just connect and upload junk. You should all be charging a small fee to register. It would solve many of these annoying people uploading questionable content. Cloudflare doesn't care about what type of software it is. They just don't want to be held liable.
>Just because Nostr is decentralized doesn't mean relays are exempt from legal responsibility.
But Iris is a client, not a relay. This person is incompetent. I bet they asked ChatGPT what Nostr is and what to do in this situation.
Or maybe publications see the “anti-censorship” angle as a benefit and just adjust their monetization models accordingly. Either way it needs exploring with real publications with existing business models.
Yeah there’s a lot of open questions. Given certain limitations, maybe publications should be just a profile, and maybe they need a new note type that allows for “multi-sig” notes to include the authors and editors.
Really opening yourself up to ddos (probably from cloudflare, mafia business plan)
There is no guarantee of anything anywhere, much less on the internet. Most good faith relays will probably respect "-" (and currently all the big ones do), but "piracy" exists and I'm not even saying that's a bad thing.
I don't believe in "intellectual property" myself, but "-" is not (only) for preventing copy, it's for making intentions explicit and keeping content and boundaries organized, which benefits everybody most of the time.
https://zapbox.fiatjaf.com/ is kind of pay2read.
If someone is browsing your relay directly instead of just specific notes or specific pubkeys you can also serve ads by just hosting them as notes.
So there are no “pay 2 read” relays? Only “pay 2 post” right?
So business models will have to account for that
Jumble is really a great client for this experience.
One thing I’m unsure of though is the access to articles. You already thought of this with the “-“ tag but I’m curious how that would work in practice. What guarantees brands need to support themselves financially.
Would love to work this out and onboard a publication (and it’s contributors) this way
You're not alone in thinking that: #nevent1q…ez6l @npub1rau…dees
Turns out relays are a great abstraction, infinitely flexible and easy to use and reason about. Relay feeds and other types of custom relay usage could be the thing that differentiates Nostr from all other Twitter clones and are vastly underexplored today.
One example that does one form of "curation" today is #nevent1q…afg2
Try also wss://algo.utxo.one, but we need more!
just stop hosting on cloudflare
Can you let me know which episodes were deleted and I can double check?
Knots is climbing in silence to the top 3 of version specific dominance. (As per Clarkmoodys dashboard.
If these reports are sporadic, as they seem, I would use Cloudflare's Rules to filter out the single events.
So you don't expose the CASM source, see:
#nevent1q…cuaw
I just discovered @npub1syj…f6wl ‘s Jumble project and it looks like that UX would match what is needed! https://github.com/CodyTseng/jumble
Question: If nothing is curated, how do we find things?
Answer: Nostr relays that function like magazines.
Each of your contributors gets whitelisted to post on the relay. They are contracted to post X times per week. Readers just read from the relay.
Nostr clients need to support this UX. @npub1jlr…ynqn @npub1wmr…g240
https://tadaima.bearblog.dev/if-nothing-is-curated-how-do-we-find-things/
I have temporarily "solved" the problem by displaying this passive-aggressive notification when the hash of the public key you're trying to view is on the CLOUDFLARE_CSAM_BANNED list.
The hash list itself is here: https://github.com/irislib/iris-client/blob/main/src/utils/cloudflare_banned_users.ts
https://blossom.primal.net/987b6a3834ce25a50e2f706692e8d06e8227eb86f3e4427a23b1ab5d6387642e.png
> Implementing censorship lists in FOSS may actually be illegal (again in the US), because it can be construed as "advertising" CSAM
Interesting, and concerning, perspective.
Appreciate you brother 🫂 Keep pushing forward 💪🚀
Thank you, both. I appreciate y’all.
By this logic, proxy sites, translation sites they all fall under this too right?
Cloudflare is the problem, not the solution
Why do you need CloudFlare in the first place? Get rid of them. They are the antithesis of Nostr.
I personally would continue to use iris.to with such a list in place since it doesn't affect me or my usage, but the ability to self-host or use alternatives is what makes the protocol censorship resistant. It's the same as people implementing relays with strict rules. People can use whatever clients and relays they want.
Make it super easy to self-host. Then you can implement a censorship list and users don't have to worry about it because they can run their own instance without the censorship list.
Yes, most of the personal hygiene products that you get off the shelf are filled with lab made poisonous chemicals. Always trust mother nature first.
@nprofile…a9q2 has really put a lot of effort into pushing the #circulareconomy forward, and has my highest regards for his unflinching work in this. Definitely deserves high praise. 🫡💪🫂
And, thank you so much for your support. It really means a lot to me. 🙏
We are winning! 💪🚀
I had reports like this before and told them I am not hosting that content and they never replied
This is annoying. Got a CSAM report for user-generated content that I'm not even hosting. There's nothing I can delete. Apparently Cloudflare wants me to implement censorship lists.
Nostr clients are not legally required to maintain censorship lists any more so than web browsers like Chrome or Firefox are. There's just Cloudflare policy and guilt by association. Understandably, it's easy to confuse a web application url like iris.to/npub1... for a content host.
Should I implement ever-growing censorship lists, at least for visitors who are not logged in? The problem is, someone can just create a new Nostr account and re-post the links to illegal content ad infinitum. When this happens, maybe Cloudflare will get the point. Or more likely, they'll just delete my account.
Maybe there's some other ISP that allows hosting of applications that don't ship with extralegal censorship lists?
Iris native app via Tauri could be a resilient direction, but it kind of defeats the purpose of having a web app in the first place: ease of access, sharing by url and mobile PWAs that bypass app stores.. If you're going to have a native app, actually native-built will probably have better UX.
How are other web clients dealing with this? @npub1v0l…qj49 @npub16c0…6nvr @npub1jlr…ynqn
https://blossom.primal.net/0b34bfee85f548461f103592324b5b36a6c60e42b2fd1843f66bd649dc83c731.png
https://blossom.primal.net/fbe340263078c74eecd3a66ed876052490cf01cf1b544b86f29d77ae526d893a.png
https://blossom.primal.net/c316a08f848938aa93621e1d7c5b8b5388cad5743ca76f2af9efe74b729a29c3.png
WEL, what’s wrong with the propane and sodium laurel sulphate?
https://npub15pr6xlz88e2wfs2d2drdy5a56fl60t9kn9h65e07k6ecmh7tgvkqdz5uyf.blossom.band/798bf6c77a3bf9cd5c3b8a397a807c3db0d546909d2f5cb10d781ca8f0a29c0d.gif
From a technical standpoint why does this always happen only on Coracle?
Im not one to really care about how many followers I have. At this point this is an unofficial game I play for shits and giggles.
Press the followers button to see how many I get. 15, 93, 189, 121. What number will I get when I play Coracle Spin To Win?
@nprofile…edqu
Anchorはカスタムフィードのダイジェストをメールで受け取ることができます。gmailで受信しgeminiに翻訳、要約、解説、質問をすることでカスタムフィードをスクロールする必要がなくなります。
#nevent1q…q6pj
I have a bar of it. I’ll have to give shaving with it a try.
NA shav-ing https://image.nostr.build/33ae82c1526b6d53912a89c68f6e3009a424a892e065b6a5b794313ac2f8c6b5.png BeardEDdragO/\/z UnitE*****
Coconut oil works well too
Barbasol is a shitcoin.
#note1af9…n2xv
https://media.tenor.com/acU28-Gj1W0AAAAC/jack-nicholson-jack.gif
You can buy soap your grandma used to make from @npub1zzm…w5wy
#note1af9…n2xv
That was a . . . (wait for it) . . . close shave.
#note1af9…n2xv
SLS is in most toothpastes and used to give me canker sores in my mouth all the time. Since switching to an SLS free toothpaste, I've stopped getting them entirely.
Martin Luther kicked ass in 1517
Tallow soap for shaving is the way.
There must be some combination of the good parts from living in the forests and plains of the past and living in the hedonistic tech cities of the present, in humanity's future.
I think that's exactly how it is. Mass adoption is very far away: it will surely come. Sure! But I don't know if we will witness mass adoption and hyperbitcoinization. That's why my goal is to leave my daughter the treasure that I put away in ₿
I think that's exactly how it is. Mass adoption is very far away: it will surely come. Sure! But I don't know if we will witness mass adoption and hyperbitcoinization. That's why my goal is to leave my daughter the treasure that I put away in ₿
nevent1qqs0dddkrq0ujqm3hjuya8ym6z9mfy4g9eff7fll52vr9cgt27srqrspy9mhxue69uhk6atvw35hqmr90pjhytngw4eh5mmwv4nhjtnhdaexceq8wekrj
Nah, I wanted the nevent. Sorry.
Reason is, asknostr.site can't (and shouldn't) display all event kinds that might have been quoted in the original question, or in some of the responses. If users can snag the nevent and paste it into another client, that client will have a much easier time finding and displaying the note with the relay hints than if they search with just the note ID alone.
I don't think e tags would be the route to go. My understanding of them from NIP-10 is that they are referring to some other event that the event in which they are found is referencing, because it is a reply to the tagged event. Therefore, the relay hint found in an e tag is not a relay hint for the event containing the tag, but a hint for finding the event that is being referenced.
I think if you encode the relay that you received the event from into an nevent, that would be sufficient in most cases.
I still think best practice would be to encode the author's outbox relays if the event can be found on them, since that is what the author has proactively indicated to be where they want their notes to be fetched from, and only encode the relay(s) you received the event from if it isn't available from their outbox relays, or they have no 10002. But, there is the ideal practice, and there is what is practical and straightforward to implement and that will do the job in most circumstances, right? 😂
beautiful comparison, thank you
That's the thing, right? Users have no idea what relays they should choose, or why they might want to choose one relay over another, and there are so many relays out there that it becomes paralyzing to try and figure out which ones are "good."
Nostr.watch is cool, but I'd really like to see a relay selection tool that asks the user some basic, multiple choice questions about what they will be using the relay for, then displays a list of relays that would work for the user's intended purpose, ranking them by a few uptime and availability stats, and indicating if the relay has any restrictions for read or write access, such as paid or PoW relays.
@nprofile…ztcn on the first question you asked to be able to copy the event id. Did you even mean NEvent? Or just the event id (hex)?
Generating a useful 'NEvent` according to the comments requires me to jump through some hoops (getting author 10002 event) so I wonder if it's even worth the effort?
I always thought that a NEvent (from NIP19 docs) is built from the original event only. Because even if you do the extra effort of including the first 3 outbox relays there is no guarantee that that event can be found on those relays. So geeking out on the idea of checking if that event is there before i include that relay. I'm feel like i'm going down the rabbit hole with this one.
From the NIP-19 docs:
https://blossom.primal.net/008edc14f15d5b4d093fa55c4503a311c9684f05789d924000921b06266a30e5.png
So optional. A simpler implementation would be to either:
- only include the relay hint if it was hinted in the e-tag
- include the relay i got the event from (which I'm currently not storing)
Letting this sit for a few days to think about it. I secretly hope you just needed the event id 😃
I don't follow what you're saying now, but I'm happy you agree
For asknostr.site, I don't think there's going to be much risk that the notes would "belong" somewhere other than the author's outbox relays, so I don't think @npub132n…8cn4 has to worry about that. I definitely see where that would come into play for Flotilla, though.
@npub1gcx…nj5z mentioned that Amethyst encodes the first 3 outbox relays from the author's 10002, if they have one that can be found, or the first 3 relays the app received the note from, if no 10002 can be found.
I wonder if it would be better to do something like, encode the first 3 outbox(write) relays from the author's 10002, so long as they have one AND the note in question can be confirmed to be available from those relays, otherwise encode the first 3 random relays that the app received the note from.
Thanks for the response! This seems to make good sense.
I do wonder, though, if preferring the author's outbox relays, if they have a 10002, would consistently be the right call. Do you check to ensure the note in question does exist on those relays before encoding them in the nevent?
Maybe go for, "If they have a 10002 and the note is confirmed to be found there, then encode the first three outbox relays. If they have no 10002 or the note cannot be found on those relays, then encode the first 3 random relays that sent the event to the app." Would that be a possibility?
We add the first 3 outbox relays for the author. If that is not available, then the first 3 random relays that sent the event to the app.
Where in nostrability should relay hints be tracked @npub180c…h6w6 @npub1ye5…knpr ?
#asknostr #NostrDevs how should a client properly encode an nevent to include the correct relay hints?
#nevent1q…d50m
I know Coracle and Amethyst both provide nevents, so maybe @nprofile…5gcs or @nprofile…pyug can provide some advice/best practice.
Labor for soul is connecting with his creator and his creation.
It is totally clear to me, that maby coracle is a rather small project. But it is the project I feel closest to. Therefore I though mentioning you.
But defnitly would be great to get other Nostr projects moving to a GNU GPL license too. I think the openness attitude is already here. What are your thoughts to licensing @nprofile…rtke ?
thanks for the mentions my fren, the nostr ecosystem is blooming! 🌸
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n9YDz-Iwgyw
@nprofile…np75 I was just listening to this speech of @nprofile…82kj . Did you consider distributing#coracle under a GNU GPL license? To have an even stronger vote on free software 😉😃
https://lumina.rocks/ and https://jumble.social also allow to browse and post pictures
Thought NIP-32 was used for this? @nprofile…5gcs would you know?
Thank you @nprofile…wvmt! Stay with my #nostrrecap. :-)
Thank you @nprofile…skda! Stay with my #nostrrecap. :-)
I vibe coded NostrOverflow. I'll post it later, maybe
Can’t wait to release the episode I recorded today with @nprofile…n3f8
Grateful for his insights. What an all around great guy. Episode should be out soon!
https://npub15pr6xlz88e2wfs2d2drdy5a56fl60t9kn9h65e07k6ecmh7tgvkqdz5uyf.blossom.band/d7e24c6e7b48ceaf0d4fb427a4785bb0fd152224761851339fdb9878313bdc86.gif
thanks a lot. yes, of course. you can try them. 🫡
ddsr looks really cool, ill have to try to run a few relays
This is good, I have found multiple instances of some users relay list not found in purplepag.es, I have came up with purpagepag.es, user.kindpag.es, relay.nos.social and relay.nostr.band as "bootstrap" user relays, and believe me, it's somewhat not enough, the other day I was trying to find a relay list of a particular user across 30+ popular relays until I eventually gave up, but primal somehow managed to find it like magic in their UI.
most relays on ddsrs and alienos relay:
https://github.com/dezh-tech/alienos
are supporting nip-86. if you run them, you can use it.
about nip86 client, we have nak:
https://nak.nostr.com
gui client? we don't have any. i had a project called mangostr:
https://github.com/dezh-tech/mangostr
but i don't have enough time to work on it and i wasn't able to receive a grant for it so i put incentives for more devs. then it's abandoned at least for now.
you may want to develop yours. 🫡
IMO peer dependencies have never worked in npm or node. I've just stuck to semver and so far so good
no not yet, but this is why I'm trying to make things modular. it shouldn't be hard to modify the "load from cache" function to only look for events that had some "checked" flag newer than a week 🤔
Any good nip-86 management apps? id like to try and setup a relay that supports it and play around with it
@npub1ces…t37c @npub133v…tcza and @npub1jlr…ynqn ( if you haven't given up on RxJS yet )
This is all RxJS based, so it should be fairly easy to build custom loading modules. since they would just be a function that takes an array of address pointers and returns an observable of events ( that completes )
You should use Deno where there's no difference. Everything is an alias, and imports only matter for the files that import them.
I've gone with lockstep (major) versioning. It seems a little more user friendly. to the developer they just need to make sure they are using the same major version of all my applesauce packages, and as long as I don't push breaking changes it should be good
Been using https://github.com/changesets/changesets for managing versions
oh. maybe ill run one at indexer.nostrelites.org. thank you sir.
That's wild... A mobile relay could easily index all the pubkeys the owner would ever care about.
I really like his weekly recap! 🩷
Awesome write up! My start9 and alby wallet aren't working for some reason or I'd zap the shit out of this
How much space does this take up on disk? I imagine it is still relatively small, right?
Would this be something a mobile relay could index, like Citrine? Maybe not index all pubkeys’ 10002s, but an extended WoT, like follows, their follows, and one more layer deep of follows.
We’d end up with something similar to a DHT, but with each mobile relay only indexing the 10002s of those they are likely to want notes from regularly, so they have to make requests to the larger indexers far less often.
Am I crazy here @npub1w4u…0jr5?
This week in Nostr.
nevent1qqsr5t0wmkjlxhhl3nvyaftx7zyst7w5ppnmmud49pml8crsp8utl8gpzemhxue69uhhyetvv9ujuurjd9kkzmpwdejhgaxzmuk
what do you mean by mirror?
here is an update:
https://github.com/dezh-tech/ddsr/releases/tag/pages%40v1.0.2
readme updated.
blossom removed, moderator option added.
admins can call nip-86 endpoints. moderators can send reports (kind 1984) and relay will delete it from database rapidly.
i still believe we can improve discovery. you may want to take a look and contribute.
📝
https://github.com/nostrability/nostrability/issues/180#issuecomment-2884459040
i too mirror purplepag.es on profiles.nostr1.com. the question i have for you and pablof, are you using router to grab from 'the big relays'? or just organic (inbound connections only).
it would be good to put some tags in our nip66 for this kind of relay so that a nip66 can return a set and help decentralization.
also, pages domain specific relay is managable using nip-86. you even receive reports for example because of impersonation and then you can blacklist them.
it can even be more improved. for example if the report is from admin, it will take the action itself rapidly.
yes. it stores: 0,3,10002. also, blossom server can be disabled. its just an additional option. if more people who run this relay think this is not useful we can simply remove it.
it even discovers kind 5s (in future 62s) to respect deletions of profiles or account vanish requests.
also, the reason that it's lightweight is because its based on khatru. and yes. docker makes it easy to run.
you can replace it or just use it beside your current relay to see how they perform. 🫡🚀
no need to use strfry. pages domain specific relay is out there, a long time:
https://github.com/dezh-tech/ddsr/tree/main/pages
its much more lightweight, anyone can run one of them and the discovery part can improve more overtime.
android 15 xiaomi hyperos 2
check out https://chachi.chat
probably something that is happening only with my phone
the bottom bar is aligned with the buttons (square circle triangle), so not being able to use it to post and go to the profile, I don't know if it happens to others too
@nprofile…wllr
I would praise you forever for a graceful post editing feature built into coracle.
Typos are like nails on a chalkboard while I am walking across flaming hot coals with a large pineapple shoved up my ass while being tasered by a laughing English teacher mocking me for my grammatical mistakes.
This feeling happens everyday for me. Make the torture end pretty please...
Please elaborate on this statement.
haven't paid for a single function on there, and for what i use it for, it works perfect
Discord: the reigning champion of monetizing mediocrity, turning a so-so chat app into a microtransaction masterpiece.
That whole platform is what happens when teams compete for features rather than follow a strong set of UX principals / User Goals.
i like discord tbh
don't get the hate
In both of them “turning off notifications” is a joke, big reason why
Same. That and simpleX are my least favorite communication media.
Discord sucks. I genuinely despise it.
something something use NFDB /j
this is not the ideal use case for ephemeral containers, ever. I don’t and wouldn’t run a relay on one
I come from a hardware first background so much of this cloud stuff is still new to me as well.
I just read their persistent disk docs. Yeah that's a limitation of render and their filesystem policy, you can't even share the filesystem points, which is a nicely working feature of containers obviously. I guess they intend users rely on other persistent data methods for more complex sharing, which is probable the enterprise use case. Use S3, or a database don't use the filesystem.
To be fair though there are other reasons they may limit this. Often VPS providers use ramfs to keep things snappy because most apps don't need much space, and if you need a DB or some other large storage system they offer they separately. So they may provision X GB of storage, but it's sitting on an array somewhere so they map some, or all storage to memory, so they don't want people actually using the storage they pay for because they can't make the same performance guarantees. That's speculation based on what i've seen for small VPS (like 25gb or less of persistent storage)
I use multiple kinds of network shares all the time with podman. Even virtiofs as well. No complaints.
Well in that would be serverless deployment right? The case where when my build completes it triggers deployment of the application, and the environment is provisioned by a configuration file as part of the source/build. You wouldn't want your application to have control over the OS, and a whole VM is more resource intensive to provision than a container within an VM. You woudln't want it configuring a network stack or an interface, or loading drivers and so on. You just want your dependencies to be where you need them and always be there.
> My original note was inspired by working with render.com's Docker mode, which is redundant because they already have a clean environment to run the package on, and having the extra layer makes it difficult to do simple stuff like use mounted discs.
Sure, but what happens when you want 3, or 4 instances running on the same machine? Well at best that's another script, at worst that requires human intervention during a deployment. As far as your mounted disk thing, im not sure I understand what trouble your running into, if it's a file-path, then it's usable by docker.
Ideally you provision the server itself to have a consistent state, and your applications (multiple of them) share the system state as much as possible. It's far more resource efficient that way. VMS generally need thick resource provisioning to make guarantees, that applications don't need or want.
I could spend days talking about good/bad, but one very useful thing ive found besides testing is development testing.
It's just a replaceable environment. I can pull a fedora image to test something, ubuntu, alpine, whatever. Use --rm and it's gone when I'm doing playing with it.
Nice new app you have there, let me pull it real quick to check it out. Okay I'll consider deploying it to my network. Didn't leave a trace on my host system, didn't have to run any install/uninstall commands etc.
Exactly. The problem is having a reproducible environment. Those that didn’t live the wild days of “works here until I go to deploy it for the client” don’t know what a blessing this is.
But seriously I've had lengthy discussions with some big time devs on HN about this. Specifically that docker was a rough solution to the failure that is application/library packaging.
I have felt the same way. It seems to have a place, but also has gone too far in many others.
It's like late 90's internet again.
all innovation introduces new tradeoffs
Different problems with easier fixes. It seems like a fair deal.
I feel your frustration. Have been there. But that statement is not true and you know it.
It has its utility, but it should not be abused like it is now.
From an end-user perspective, it sucks donkey balls.
I don't know man. Once you're using it frequently, it helps tremendously with scaling.
That seems to be the general trend of modern technology.
Crypto's freedom got crushed by control freaks, but Bitcoin's sparking a privacy revival. Time to reclaim our keys. 👁️
I will shill my own business too: vrtcl.studio
Have done some work for @nprofile…5gcs and would love to collaborate with more folks/ businesses in the Nostr and bitcoin ecosystems.
on another topic, not sure you noticed or if it's on purpose but you have a leading space in your kind-0 metadata name that has been driving me crazy for a while now ahah
😬 https://media.tenor.com/DeGMcBrA9-sAAAAM/slide-drift.gif
Also, in all my historical analyses of technological developments, you can trace things back for decades before they pop off; and the story is basically always "grand long term historical developments creating the conditions for a 'great man' to show innitiative and succeeding" (all those lesser men that failed prior barely make it into the record)
Privacy is but an element to this, probably prioritized by the bias of people working on this; fundamentally its these math tricks that allow to structure the digital realm.
And perhaps this transition from analoge to digital is far more envolved, and required therefor more generational iteration that might we can imagine.
We have used signatures, seals and keys of all kinds of all kinds throughout history and much of the world order is constructed out of these things; political, judicial, commercial, you name it, its all text with signatures at the bottom.
Incremental digitization of elements is what has been happening over time, for example whatever that signing of PDF documents with the silly handwriting font is supposed to be.
But what we are doing with Bitcoin, and Nostr, is something different; we dont digitize, we start out with the inherrently digital; and as a result we have to rebuild all these institutions from the ground up. The whole Bitcoin ETF in this regard is hillarious for example.
Why has this not happened before? Because its a bootstrapping problem, and Bitcoin is the thing that not just solved that problem for itself, but for cryptography as a whole
The impersonating npub @npub1nyr…lzp9
Nostr watch out! @npub1jlr…ynqn just slid into my dms and tried scamming me. Not sure if he got hacked or someone is impersonating him.
@nprofile…7gm9 when I go to notifications > reactions #coracle crashes. Tested on firefox web and on android app.
I setted up nostr.land now on coracle for writing. Lets see if it works. Thanks for your support.
Yeah, that makes sense! :checkmarkgreen:
On a different topic, just to be sure you're aware...it seems you have an imposter out there. I got a dm overnight, very similar to a "Derek Ross" from two days ago. In both, the npub mimics and reposts. No doubt the same scammer.
https://files.peakd.com/file/peakd-hive/crrdlx/Eo8KBJki73ejmUXViA5btPUi7rhis1j7bj35X3xuM5CHSzMZ8mQD7X6otikN2GEUeY3.png
https://files.peakd.com/file/peakd-hive/crrdlx/EoASxEqUk5p9D2BFQ4wzb7dZySjY9E2kG4xFso1BP3yaWxrUVgVoahNdb7bnLYKbmzy.png
thx, i will give it a try
Hi, hodlbod! Which APP are you connecting with Aegis? Currently, in testing, 0xchat, olas, and nostur can be connected normally.
No. Not as far as web-of-trust works in Coracle.
The way Coracle scores for web-of-trust is based on how many of the npubs you follow who also follow that particular npub (adding positively to the score) vs the number of npubs you follow who have reported or muted that particular npub (taking away from the score).
Meanwhile, an npub will be considered part of your "Network" so long as at least one npub you follow also follows them, regardless of their overall WoT score.
You can then further narrow down who will be included in the feed by increasing Coracle's global WoT filter.
Soo is this effectively the equivalent of "Web of trust" score of 1?
https://blog.google/products/google-pay/google-wallet-age-identity-verifications/
Needs to be easier. DIDs and VCs will solve this. It's coming.
https://android-developers.googleblog.com/2025/04/announcing-android-support-of-digital-credentials.html?m=1
I do like that framing more. I actually already stopped calling them messages/DMs in the UI, I just call them order and inquiries to be explicit about not expecting general chat.
Now that you’re qualified to weigh in on the op_return debate, should I sell my corn to Blackrock?
We're you motivated by the math?
@nprofile…p732
@npub1jlr…ynqn can correct me if I am wrong on this one. I believe "network" is just one step beyond the npubs you actively follow. In other words, it is the npubs your follows follow.
@nprofile…fg2n nailed it. The tools are freely available but utilized by few.
Oh! 🤣
Gotta test that still
Yeah, nsec.app been working for Olas login for months 🙂
The thing that got me about this book is how history is repeating itself with Samurai & tornado. The history is truly incredible. Also the journey of a few persistent builders - led to the possibility of bitcoin!
You need to go back further and research cybernetics. But to answer your immediate question from an old soul who lived during that time, PGP comes to mind immediately.
The reason it never really took off is because people are inherently lazy in both action and mind. The intellectual effort required to exchange keys and set up communication channels involved more discomfort than surrendering privacy.
A fundamental law of change management is that people only change when the discomfort of staying put exceeds the discomfort of moving on.
You either need to lower the discomfort barrier to change, or raise the discomfort of the status quo.
To answer your last question, I think we are indeed in a cryptography renaissance, but it's out of necessity. The math is there for quantum proof cryptography, but I suspect the machines are about to take over the next phase of development because it exceeds our human capacity for mathematics.
I tried it with #olas and it worked.
or people could learn like they learn how to drive?
product managers killed it
Is this what proton mail is doing?
🤖 Tracking strings detected and removed!
🔗 Clean URL(s):
https://youtu.be/aH-q_xb3FnM
❌ Removed parts:
?si=opU-LmvIEKFSIpAs
> Did Bitcoin kick off a resurgence of interest in digital privacy?
I would argue 2008 (and years leading up to it) kicked off a refound demand for interest in digital privacy.
What specifically happened on 9/11/01 with the Internet? That's a good question to be asking, as it hugely affected our primary communication and information channels, every day since.
https://youtu.be/aH-q_xb3FnM?si=opU-LmvIEKFSIpAs
Ecash almost went mainstream in the early age of the internet, everyone was convinced this would be how money would move on the internet, even big corporations and banks. But then it vanished.
I guess cryptography is the tool of the people against any form of centralised power, but it takes a lot of education for it to take over.
Yes exactly, why isn’t the internet built this way? What’s the point of email password again?
https://archive.org/details/crypto-how-the-code-rebels-beat-the-government-saving-privacy-in-the-digital-age
#nevent1q…rc40
> we must ensure that two important properties of the current “paper mail” system are preserved: (a) messages are private, and (b) messages can be signed.
Doesn't ecash do this? (I don't know, just asking.)
Unfortunately, people don't give a damn about bitcoin, encryption and privacy. For now...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zooko%27s_triangle IMHO makes UX of anything non-centralized very difficult (namecoin-esque tech aside).
when I first read the nostr NIP-01 I remember immediately going - wait, this is it? why didn't we have this already?
I hope we in the midst of a cryptography renaissance, but I share your bias.
TBH, most people would sell their social security number for free email.
The problem is getting ordinary people to sign keys without knowing that they are signing keys and also to refuse to sign keys without knowing that that what they are doing. It's a UI problem and people who are good at cryptography are not good at UI.
the tech is so effective that governments as they were becoming steadily more corrupted realised that this technology would hobble their espionage operations and have done incredible amounts of mischief to try and keep a lid on it
i think once nostr sees commercial adoption for real world work their ship is sunk
More of a curiosity of what it is like to have a conversation with someone who stole your identity. Wondering if it is like the cliche of talking to your evil twin, or clone.
Yeah, if nostr has taught me one thing this past year it is that I need to diversify off Apple
Have you tried confronting them about it?
Full support for - is currently not implemented due to the weird state of the current setup. This is going to be addressed on NFDB
I do not think so. I've hopped onto jumble.social to see if it was connection issues and did not experience the same thing over there as a comparison.
The connection speeds seem to be tolerable even for the tor network. I've tried switching exit nodes to see if it resolves the problem and it has no effect.
Usually Tor Browser runs about 3.5-5 Mbps which is on the low end of things, but should not be having this sort of effect.
Guess he finally made it. He's got impersonators. Congrats 🫡
Try using just nostr.land
@nprofile…u584 FYI you have an impersonator DMing: npub1nyrfgkqutqfyfzwskzxl5nf2w536wya3d2pf5z7pvxkc90laey2sfclzp9
https://mclaren.bloomreach.io/delivery/resources/content/gallery/mclaren-racing/heritage/triple-crown/monaco-84-1018531270-col-19840819-ec-1984-alain-prost-austrian-gp_01.jpg
because these prosts were read from the local cache perhaps
@nprofile…7vk7
Something weird that i have noticed using coracle.social on mobile is that you scroll down for a little bit on the global feed. Then the circle preloader spins into infinity and stops loading new content all together. This is on the Tor Browser with Nos2fox extension.
Unable to figure out why this is happening, because it does not ever happen on the desktop.
I posted an issue on github, about looking to notifications and clicking on ractions freezes the whole app. Just want to let you know.
Okay, that makes sense! I just tried using nsec.app from desktop instead and that worked. iOS login was actually really quick that way. But yes, we really need a better bunker/signer for iOS.
I still have an issue in Flotilla where the relay takes forever to load messages, this is both web, PWA, and iOS. Usually the most recent message in a thread or room loads, but getting everything to load takes between 30mins and 3days sometimes. What's odd is I can pull up my relay on Chachi or 0xchat and all messages load in less than a minute (seems to be read only on those clients but the read experience comes off better) 🤷🏻♂️
I tested now on #coracle android app again. From there it fails to upload to eden relay. From the coracle.social web interface it works fine.
#nevent1q…x9y6
Jól néz ki Srácok! Grat!
#nevent1q…grh4
It should accept your events, nothing seems wrong there. Or are kind 1 notes also being rejected?
offchain.pub and wot.utxo.one
Thanks a lot. I have seen, that at least one note in this thread got accepted now.
I do not use DMs, so I can not say if it works or not.
I will investigate this. Also, does this happen when using DMs?
I cannot see this on my paid/free relays list
Primal?
Here I have already mentioned it before. Maby the note did not reach you since it was not accepted on nostr.land -.-
#nevent1q…6pvr
This is what I am saying. The website says I have still 9 Month. But my notes are not saved...
Ok seems like it mostly worked now.
I'm zapping with amethyst and minibits connected through nwc. It tries to split my 1000 sats over all npubs mentioned in the post. Some (like you) do not have lightning set up and some seem to have issues with their NIP-05.
The errors come so quick that it makes amethyst crash but it is impossible to tell what users will receive anything. This time around it is worse than others. My minibits just shows a single 19sat zap.
Since it concerns so many npubs it's too hard to figure out who did or did not receive anything, and whether it's an issue on my end or elsewhere. So that's why i'm apologizing if somebody didn't receive any sats.
Thank you for you comment @nprofile…rtse!
I would like to know, what is the reason you saying like that please?
Zapping this post is always a bit of s hit and miss. Sorry if you did not receive sats. I tried.
if the website does show you as a paid member, but still getting an error, let me know
nostr.land operates on subscription system, not one-time fee.
eden.nostr.land of @nprofile…lfmz was not accepting my messages, even when I am a paied member.
GM, Nostriches!
The latest Nostr Review biweekly report( 28 April- 11 May 2025) is out.
Check it out here:
#naddr1qv…ymqc
Quick review: In the past two weeks
* Nostr statistics indicate over 211,000 daily trusted pubkey events. The number of new users has seen a notable decrease, Profiles with contact lists were representing a 50% decline. More than 5 million events have been published, reflecting a 34% decrease. Total Zap activity stands at approximately 14 million, marking a 12% increase.
* 25 pull requests were submitted to the Nostr protocol, with 8 merged. Contributors include @npub1xts…kk5s @npub1u5n…ldq3
@npub1gzu…a5ds @npub1cgd…kfex and more
* 60 Nostr projects were tracked, with 18 updating their product developments. These include
@npub13my…v3qk @npub1jlr…ynqn @npub18m7…q955 @npub12vk…pugg @npub1n0s…k6h0 @npub1v5u…n0v5 @npub17jl…825x @npub1vyg…vy4e @npub17h9…3hpu @npub1jw7…35fg @npub18wx…4xra @npub1xnf…lpr5 @npub1000…vwqk @npub1agh…mhct @npub15dc…yv6e @npub1nxy…avr7 @npub1pls…kx8j @npub10qd…arpj
*Over 356 long-form articles have been published, 36% of which focus on Bitcoin and Nostr. Contributors include @npub186a…hd06 @npub1xnc…mrua @npub10m6…tff3 @npub15hh…n4vc @npub18am…p424 @npub1rsv…4dke @npub1jp3…0eg2 @npub1dk8…q55a
@npub18su…nz5q @npub1qpd…082j @npub1th6…930q @npub1xx8…dm20 @npub1jrr…5nwv @npub1har…cqdy
and more.
*During the same period, 5 notable events took place, including 2 The Nostr Workshops. Speakers include @npub1dmn…3kv6 @npub1sn0…tr2x @npub1s7x…z67p
*2 upcoming events is on the horizon.
speakers include @npub18m7…q955 @npub12vk…pugg @npub14gm…gv87 @npub1dg6…sguz @npub1ymg…k8d5 @npub1jt9…la9y @npub1dtg…up6m @npub1g53…drvk @npub16c0…6nvr and more.
Thanks for reading! If there’s anything I missed, feel free to reach out and help enhance the completeness and accuracy of my coverage.
Relay.nostrarabia.com (paid relay)
Seewaan.com/relay (free)
Both did not accept messages.
I recently learned about Aigis. Not sure what level of trust to give it really.
https://testflight.apple.com/join/DUzVMDMK Aegis for Nostr
nsec.app
is there a better option for ios you'd recommend?
I still can't login from the ios app. PWA will connect with nsec app but the ios app has only once connected to prompt for perms for me, and then still timed out. @npub1jlr…ynqn #note18mr…f70n
OK THANK YOU SEE? Sheesh I thought I was the only one
Nvm figured out the WoT. #coracle really is a swiss-army knife of feed construction... But still not seeing custom emojis?
1: What are "WOT feeds"? Where do I access this feature?
3: I don't see custom emojis, there's still just a "heart" icon
It is a Motorola device running Lineage OS 22.2 (Android 15).
Neurolink is 15 year old technology (the original tech is literally just a cap that reads brainwaves no need for invasive surgery)
But Elon Musk wants to make people into his zombie slaves and take away their ability to think for themselves or break the connection (hence he wants it surgically implanted under the skull, so that you can't remove it)
I just downloaded the latest version for android in use with amber.
Still unable to use the application due to the overlay issue.
I'll delete the app for now. Let me know if there is any more I can do on my end.
Going to test the image upload now with this post.
https://npub15pr6xlz88e2wfs2d2drdy5a56fl60t9kn9h65e07k6ecmh7tgvkqdz5uyf.blossom.band/543fc7652be83f5bd246c617ec106f3fde58c007b49ef6ac2b54a1ad204654a2.gif
Some screenshots of our progress towards a git-centric community client based on Flotilla 1.x
@nprofile…z2l8 @nprofile…u584
Repo Overview: https://blossom.primal.net/1517d26a8ffe6e4165b42a332c2a130172fe93230d61917ef09fc386947fa8e7.png
Files:
https://blossom.primal.net/d879d15779bbb605fb261d6132fd2d08ba6cf1c95fea3146e9f29ada26d5396f.png
Issues: https://blossom.primal.net/6298cde93215fd58dbd53c4f8126cc205dcd361f405ba040eb32f14d49e3a7e2.png
More to come!
I'm signing up for that shit lol.
#nevent1q…gzua
Lol seriously. This problem has existed for over 2 and a half years at least. Literally the shittiest iOS nostr app at this point.
😂😂😂
But I like Damus the most. All the others I use for specific things.
Using anything besides Damus fixes this.
Custom emoji 💎 #simplydebased
Yeah there are definitely some bugs, depending browser or device ( desktop vs mobile )
Thanks for feedback!
work in progress… 😊
no we just need to update nostrdb to fix this. we have a PR open that does this... we just gotta get it over the line @npub13v4…l3l8
Can I reset my nostrdb? Or it won’t matter?
its a bug in an old version of nostrdb on damus ios
@npub1jlr…ynqn
You username and profile picture have been scrambled.
https://i.nostr.build/7P1CBnKRMyVLKvUX.jpg
Yea, should have tested the function again before releasing.
I'm fixing it now
does it include OP_RDTURN filters?
I think just force closing would work, at least thats what I did. Something went off with the migration from the old encrypted preferences and didn't load some things after the migration.
It keeps glitching on the second point for me. The snake phases right through and doesn’t collect it. Just me?
On mobile, it works great!
It's surprisingly responsive & not totally frustrating in the right browser.
BROOO first try and high score of 1 🤣😎💀😅 #nostr
https://image.nostr.build/154cf6475826d4856435d5ca97dcce999baf9fa59614615b9951f1f617c0ed54.jpg
Sweet!
I will let you know if the latest android version and the switch to nostr.build resolves the issues once you release it later today.
As far as nostr is concerned I agree, half of these coins will be gone or rugged by next cycle which will make all the work put into the specs outdated and wasted
We also shouldnt design nostr to be Bitcoin centric.
I do. Others aren't so smart or so fortunate (stables are important in other countries) to just use Bitcoin. I'd also like to receive USDT even though I wouldn't hold it. I would be able to flip that donation into BTC
guys help... CAIPs or SLIPs to define blockchains and assets for donation addresses? Maybe I'll write the NIP and just reference both and we can decide in the comments. Or do we just start our own list... Would love to know your thoughts
@npub1gcx…nj5z
@npub1q3s…d26p
@npub1l2v…ajft
@npub1jlr…ynqn
@npub1w4u…0jr5
@npub1ye5…knpr
@npub1xts…kk5s
@npub1gzu…a5ds
https://github.com/satoshilabs/slips/blob/master/slip-0044.md
https://github.com/ChainAgnostic/CAIPs/blob/main/CAIPs/caip-2.md
dang you beat me to it, I was going to make a PR
It was a little confusing that I needed to clone welshman to `../welshman` but I figured it out. why not publish those packages on npm? or is it linked locally for development?
@npub1jlr…ynqn the new flotilla is much better, although the email alerts for communities doesn't seem to be working 😢
Also can we get a light theme, I know I'm probably the only person asking for this though...
@npub16dh…0nkq wouldn't you be better served in @npub15dc…yv6e with a (signed) Mail UX too?
1) Call it "Mail", not "DMs"
2) Have sealed an unsealed. Marketplaces do indeed need signatures for proof.
Your app can than just look at relevant "Mails", without asking Chat apps to mash things like this together in one Chat convos feed.
Chat and Mail are not the same concept. Communication channel VS One-off messages.
Nip-17 suits Mail better.
Some (if not most) Mails need signatures.
#nevent1q…q892
The first color I see is unfortunately not usable in Light mode.
The one for my own pubkey, neither.
Also, why not use the full HEX pubkey to avoid weird or repeating colors with mined keys etc?
I'm very happy with the colors I get:
https://cdn.satellite.earth/96c84e7ddbdb6f3e9c176cbc8d3724cd0c25fb8aad19ced2d3bfb86faf8d225a.mov
==================================
#9 🛠️ Tools, Updates and Releases
==================================
1. Yumyume - 0.6.0 - Biryani with Pickled Onion & Raita
Yumyume is a free, open-source, decentralized social bookmarking tool built on the Nostr protocol. This release, “Biryani with Pickled Onion & Raita” introduces a rich visual overhaul with an interactive tag cloud that shows tag density, allows easy filtering, and supports direct tag-based URL queries. Bookmarks are now sorted by their original publishing time for more consistent browsing. The app also now records the client name (“Yumyume”) when publishing bookmarks, adding transparency to content origin. Several bugs were fixed in this release, improving the overall reliability and user experience. The concept is from @npub1l77…swft.
To support its growth, contributions to the @npub1kmw…xqk9 campaign are encouraged, with rewards available for even less than the cost of a yearly Pinboard subscription.
https://geyser.fund/project/yumyume
Developed by: @npub1zqc…uza5
Source: https://gitlab.com/digitalethicsagency/nostr/yumyume/-/releases/0.6.0
2. Coracle - 0.6.15
Coracle is an experimental Nostr client designed to harness the power of multiple relays. It allows users to browse, filter, zap, and create custom feeds for a tailored Nostr experience. This release improves safe areas, enhances remote signing, removes NIP-96 support, and introduces user-specific Blossom servers. It also refines the profile edit page and prevents duplicate notes in feeds, offering a smoother, more curated interaction with Nostr. Although this is the latest, there were releases 0.6.12, 0.6.13, and 0.6.14 this week too.
Developed by: @npub1jlr…ynqn
Source: https://github.com/coracle-social/coracle/releases/tag/0.6.15
3. Nowser - 1.1.0
Nowser is a secure Nostr key management and signing app for iOS and Android, supporting multiple authentication methods. This release introduces hardware signer (nesigner) support, changes the Android signer package name method, adds long press support for images and links, introduces Incognito Mode, and adds download support with enhanced URL HTTPS checks for added security.
Developed by: @npub19ye…zqwk
Source: https://github.com/haorendashu/nowser/releases/tag/1.1.0
4. Notedeck Beta - v0.4.0
Notedeck is a modern, multiplatform Nostr client built with Rust, offering a feature-rich experience for interacting with the Nostr protocol on both desktop and Android. This release introduces several exciting features, including the Dave Nostr AI assistant, GIF support, full-text note search, and enhanced media uploads. It also adds a note-tagging system, local network note broadcasting, and improvements to Android performance. Other updates include user tagging, experimental last note per pubkey feed, and relay list support, alongside fixes for UI and feed update issues.
Developed by: @npub1xts…kk5s
Source: https://github.com/damus-io/notedeck/releases/tag/v0.4.0
5. Samiz - v0.0.4-alpha
Samiz is an experimental tool that lets you use Nostr offline by creating a Bluetooth mesh network with your Android device. This release expands its broadcasting capabilities to include all user metadata and any kind of note created up to one hour before a session starts. It's a step toward decentralized, offline Nostr communication without internet access.
Developed by: @npub1v3t…yvjh
Source: https://github.com/KoalaSat/samiz/releases/tag/v0.0.4-alpha
6. Flotilla - 1.0.2
Flotilla is a Discord-like Nostr client built around the concept of "relays as groups," offering a chat-focused experience. This release improves relay error handling, remote signer login, and UI rendering while fixing issues with the add relay button and safe inset areas. It’s designed to make group communication on Nostr more intuitive and organized. Although this is the latest release, there were releases 1.0.1 and 1.0.0 also this week.
Developed by: @npub1jlr…ynqn
Source: https://github.com/coracle-social/flotilla/releases/tag/1.0.2
7. Nostur - TestFlight v1.22.0
Nostur is a Nostr client designed for Apple platforms, including Mac, iPhone, and iPad. The latest TestFlight release adds support for Blossom media servers, including the ability to use multiple servers as mirrors. It also includes UI fixes such as preserving feed position when toggling the audio bar and resolving broken screenshots for quoted posts. This update enhances media handling and overall usability for Apple users on Nostr.
Developed by: @npub1n0s…lahe
Source: #nevent1q…m0w8
#tools_nostr_recap
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
🗞️ The Latest the Nostr: Weekly Nostr Recap 🚀
12th May 2025
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
* * * * * * * * *
23rd Edition
* * * * * * * * *
https://image.nostr.build/06f7ff855bb0b323932a65df88f824732f4e25f895d7cc6290124d2437d8efce.png
==================
🧠 Quote of the Week
==================
@npub1qny…95gx
“we need to replace github with an open alternative
nostr seems like an ideal fit”
=====================
🔥 Community Highlights
=====================
1. #Nostr needs real voices, Not influencers
#naddr1qv…ektv
2. Why exclusive content matters
#nevent1q…el8c
3. #Decentralize a Dev space
#nevent1q…fjs3
4. Proof of Work expectation of @npub1csa…z4x9 at Nostr Lounge
#nevent1q…fvp0
5. Low level scammers on Nostr
#nevent1q…e2tt
6. A Protocol that respects us
#nevent1q…vcp6
7. Nostr arrival of @npub1xyk…56xr
#nevent1q…5v2a
8. The winner of the @npub12vk…pugg ping pong tourney
#nevent1q…s2h9
==================
🌱 Ecosystem Growth
==================
Nostr is growing fast! According to https://github.com/aljazceru/awesome-nostr/, there are now over 140 Nostr clients, over 50 relays, and over 450 Nostr apps running in more than 40 countries around the globe.
During this week:
- Total zaps: 35,032, compared to 32,978 zaps the week before
https://image.nostr.build/ae171e87c9bfb7249c259175fbbbc2200c331d66c76943ed058580d19d291c77.png
- Total zap amount: 7,019,551, compared to 7,363,298 sats the week before
https://image.nostr.build/9ba4a02108073ad2599e053b58de191e659a7142320f5a72643aa224fa46b832.png
- Total events: 2,757,757, compared to 2,498,372 events the week before
https://image.nostr.build/4948c264e8e223e602879c6db966e57891ddfdfee3ec0aaa3582d41a7e5e48a8.png
Many thanks to https://stats.nostr.band/ by @npub1xdt…ntxy and all the contributors of https://github.com/aljazceru/awesome-nostr for providing these insights.
==================
🎓 Educational Guide
==================
No educational guide for this week.
====================
📅 Upcoming Events
====================
1. @npub1rwh…7avv in Las Vegas - Nostr lounge - May 2025
📅 Date: May 28 - 29, 2025
⏰ Time: At 1.00pm PDT
📍 Location: The Venetian Las Vegas
(3355 South Las Vegas Boulevard, Las Vegas, NV 89109, USA)
🤹♀️ Organizers:
@npub18m7…q955 (28th meetup) - @npub1yau…vjmf, @npub1fgz…jeck, @npub12gy…3jj5
@npub12vk…pugg (29th meetup) - @npub16c0…6nvr, @npub1zga…ppvc, @npub1spd…q6j7
🔗 Event: https://b.tc/conference/2025
#nevent1q…yuez
#naddr1qv…8rct
#nevent1q…ucl8
2. NOSTRBAMA Nostr Conference - July 2025
📅 Date: July 15 - 17, 2025
📍 Location: The Hatch (upstairs Haberdasher), 113 Dauphin Street. Mobile, Alabama.
🤹♀️ Organizers: @npub1unm…txhc, @npub16se…jdxk, @npub1ual…wmqx
🔗 Event: https://nostrbama.com/
==================
📰 Nostr in the Media
==================
1. @npub1aqa…237n explains Nostr
@npub1ltz…k4fh
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ieWjlM71tjA
2. Blossom: How decentralized file storage works on Nostr
@npub12vk…pugg
https://x.com/primal_app/status/1920194616919249078
3. Nostr is on Stage with @npub1zuu…c2uc
https://x.com/BitcareForum/status/1921144116714324124
======================
⚡ Most Zapped Last Week
======================
Nostr’s Value4Value (V4V) model is all about plebs directly rewarding creators for the value they receive, no middlemen fees, no ads, just pure community-driven support using sats via the Bitcoin Lightning Network. Thanks to https://zaplife.lol/ by @npub1l2v…ajft for providing this data. Here are the top zapped posts from last week, showcasing creators who received the most engagement:
🔥 Top 3: Most Zaps
1. Zaps Received: 132
Sats Earned: 51k
#nevent1q…65x6
2. Zaps Received: 100
Sats Earned: 13k
#nevent1q…vc8c
3. Zaps Received: 49
Sats Earned: 7k
#nevent1q…mtxg
💰 Top 3: Most Sats
1. Sats Earned: 441k
Zaps Received: 192
#nevent1q…ejgp
2. Sats Earned: 200k
Zaps Received: 12
#nevent1q…t8uz
3. Sats Earned: 51k
Zaps Received: 132
#nevent1q…ke4s
==============
😂 Nostr Memes
==============
1. #nevent1q…s9rs
2. #nevent1q…2ems
3. #nevent1q…n3jz
4. #nevent1q…dnqq
5. #nevent1q…ndrf
6. #nevent1q…hu6x
7. #nevent1q…9xsu
8. #nevent1q…frq7
9. #nevent1q…e3xv
10. #nevent1q…dt0k
11. #nevent1q…jt6f
12. #nevent1q…n4lm
13. #nevent1q…9uzj
14. #nevent1q…6jze
15. #nevent1q…raxp
===========================
🛠️ Tools, Updates and Releases
===========================
1. Yumyume - 0.6.0 - Biryani with Pickled Onion & Raita
Yumyume is a free, open-source, decentralized social bookmarking tool built on the Nostr protocol. This release, “Biryani with Pickled Onion & Raita” introduces a rich visual overhaul with an interactive tag cloud that shows tag density, allows easy filtering, and supports direct tag-based URL queries. Bookmarks are now sorted by their original publishing time for more consistent browsing. The app also now records the client name (“Yumyume”) when publishing bookmarks, adding transparency to content origin. Several bugs were fixed in this release, improving the overall reliability and user experience. The concept is from @npub1l77…swft.
To support its growth, contributions to the @npub1kmw…xqk9 campaign are encouraged, with rewards available for even less than the cost of a yearly Pinboard subscription.
https://geyser.fund/project/yumyume
Developed by: @npub1zqc…uza5
Source: https://gitlab.com/digitalethicsagency/nostr/yumyume/-/releases/0.6.0
2. Coracle - 0.6.15
Coracle is an experimental Nostr client designed to harness the power of multiple relays. It allows users to browse, filter, zap, and create custom feeds for a tailored Nostr experience. This release improves safe areas, enhances remote signing, removes NIP-96 support, and introduces user-specific Blossom servers. It also refines the profile edit page and prevents duplicate notes in feeds, offering a smoother, more curated interaction with Nostr. Although this is the latest, there were releases 0.6.12, 0.6.13, and 0.6.14 this week too.
Developed by: @npub1jlr…ynqn
Source: https://github.com/coracle-social/coracle/releases/tag/0.6.15
3. Nowser - 1.1.0
Nowser is a secure Nostr key management and signing app for iOS and Android, supporting multiple authentication methods. This release introduces hardware signer (nesigner) support, changes the Android signer package name method, adds long press support for images and links, introduces Incognito Mode, and adds download support with enhanced URL HTTPS checks for added security.
Developed by: @npub19ye…zqwk
Source: https://github.com/haorendashu/nowser/releases/tag/1.1.0
4. Notedeck Beta - v0.4.0
Notedeck is a modern, multiplatform Nostr client built with Rust, offering a feature-rich experience for interacting with the Nostr protocol on both desktop and Android. This release introduces several exciting features, including the Dave Nostr AI assistant, GIF support, full-text note search, and enhanced media uploads. It also adds a note-tagging system, local network note broadcasting, and improvements to Android performance. Other updates include user tagging, experimental last note per pubkey feed, and relay list support, alongside fixes for UI and feed update issues.
Developed by: @npub1xts…kk5s
Source: https://github.com/damus-io/notedeck/releases/tag/v0.4.0
5. Samiz - v0.0.4-alpha
Samiz is an experimental tool that lets you use Nostr offline by creating a Bluetooth mesh network with your Android device. This release expands its broadcasting capabilities to include all user metadata and any kind of note created up to one hour before a session starts. It's a step toward decentralized, offline Nostr communication without internet access.
Developed by: @npub1v3t…yvjh
Source: https://github.com/KoalaSat/samiz/releases/tag/v0.0.4-alpha
6. Flotilla - 1.0.2
Flotilla is a Discord-like Nostr client built around the concept of "relays as groups," offering a chat-focused experience. This release improves relay error handling, remote signer login, and UI rendering while fixing issues with the add relay button and safe inset areas. It’s designed to make group communication on Nostr more intuitive and organized. Although this is the latest release, there were releases 1.0.1 and 1.0.0 also this week.
Developed by: @npub1jlr…ynqn
Source: https://github.com/coracle-social/flotilla/releases/tag/1.0.2
7. Nostur - TestFlight v1.22.0
Nostur is a Nostr client designed for Apple platforms, including Mac, iPhone, and iPad. The latest TestFlight release adds support for Blossom media servers, including the ability to use multiple servers as mirrors. It also includes UI fixes such as preserving feed position when toggling the audio bar and resolving broken screenshots for quoted posts. This update enhances media handling and overall usability for Apple users on Nostr.
Developed by: @npub1n0s…lahe
Source: #nevent1q…m0w8
==================================
🎁 Developer Tools, updates and Guides
==================================
1. Nostr Media - 0.13-beta
Nostr Media is a WordPress plugin that lets you self-host images and media shared via your Nostr client. This release adds support for downloading media and mirroring files using Blossom (BUD-01, BUD-04). It supports uploads via NIP-96, NIP-98, and BUD-05, keeps originals, generates scaled versions, and integrates with the WordPress Media Library. Works well with the Modern Image Formats plugin for automatic WebP/AVIF conversion. There was the release of 0.12-beta this week too.
Developed by: @npub1n0s…lahe
Source: https://github.com/fabianfabian/nostr-media/releases/tag/0.13-beta
==========================
🌐 Relay Updates and Releases
==========================
1. NWCLay - A Relay for NWC events - New Relay
NWCLay is a lightweight relay for Nostr Wallet Connect (NWC) events. It accepts only NWC-specified kinds, stores events briefly for reliability, and enforces strict filters with authors or #p. Ideal for focused, dependable NWC interactions.
Developed by: @npub1h49…9kay
Source: https://github.com/dezh-tech/ddsr/tree/main/nwclay
2. Chapar - A Relay for Chat app events - New Relay
Chapar is a Nostr relay built exclusively for chat apps, supporting only event kinds defined in NIP-59. It requires authentication to read events and only allows access to messages relevant to the user, ensuring privacy and focused chat functionality.
Developed by: @npub1h49…9kay
Source: https://github.com/dezh-tech/ddsr/tree/main/chapar
===================
👋 Stay in Touch & Zap
===================
Nostr is built by the plebs, for the plebs. If you found this recap helpful, consider supporting me, Nomishka with a zap.
I’m committed to supporting Nostr and I split a part of the zaps I receive for this note with the plebs mentioned in this recap for all their great effort. Thank you so much for being part of this journey. Let me know your thoughts about this twenty-third recap, share your tips and suggestions for the next weekly #nostrrecap and let’s keep #grownostr together.
A big shoutout to @npub1wmr…g240 for his generous patronage!
Recap by @npub19hs…5jcn
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🗞️ The Latest the Nostr: Weekly Nostr Recap - 12th 🚀
May 2025
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
* * * * * * * * *
23rd Edition
* * * * * * * * *
https://image.nostr.build/06f7ff855bb0b323932a65df88f824732f4e25f895d7cc6290124d2437d8efce.png
==================
🧠 Quote of the Week
==================
@npub1qny…95gx
“we need to replace github with an open alternative
nostr seems like an ideal fit”
=====================
🔥 Community Highlights
=====================
1. #Nostr needs real voices, Not influencers
#naddr1qv…ektv
2. Why exclusive content matters
#nevent1q…el8c
3. #Decentralize a Dev space
#nevent1q…fjs3
4. Proof of Work expectation of @npub1csa…z4x9 at Nostr Lounge
#nevent1q…fvp0
5. Low level scammers on Nostr
#nevent1q…e2tt
6. A Protocol that respects us
#nevent1q…vcp6
7. Nostr arrival of @npub1xyk…56xr
#nevent1q…5v2a
8. The winner of the @npub12vk…pugg ping pong tourney
#nevent1q…s2h9
==================
🌱 Ecosystem Growth
==================
Nostr is growing fast! According to https://github.com/aljazceru/awesome-nostr/, there are now over 140 Nostr clients, over 50 relays, and over 450 Nostr apps running in more than 40 countries around the globe.
During this week:
- Total zaps: 35,032, compared to 32,978 zaps the week before
https://image.nostr.build/ae171e87c9bfb7249c259175fbbbc2200c331d66c76943ed058580d19d291c77.png
- Total zap amount: 7,019,551, compared to 7,363,298 sats the week before
https://image.nostr.build/9ba4a02108073ad2599e053b58de191e659a7142320f5a72643aa224fa46b832.png
- Total events: 2,757,757, compared to 2,498,372 events the week before
https://image.nostr.build/4948c264e8e223e602879c6db966e57891ddfdfee3ec0aaa3582d41a7e5e48a8.png
Many thanks to https://stats.nostr.band/ by @npub1xdt…ntxy and all the contributors of https://github.com/aljazceru/awesome-nostr for providing these insights.
==================
🎓 Educational Guide
==================
No educational guide for this week.
====================
📅 Upcoming Events
====================
1. @npub1rwh…7avv in Las Vegas - Nostr lounge - May 2025
📅 Date: May 28 - 29, 2025
⏰ Time: At 1.00pm PDT
📍 Location: The Venetian Las Vegas
(3355 South Las Vegas Boulevard, Las Vegas, NV 89109, USA)
🤹♀️ Organizers:
@npub18m7…q955 (28th meetup) - @npub1yau…vjmf, @npub1fgz…jeck, @npub12gy…3jj5
@npub12vk…pugg (29th meetup) - @npub16c0…6nvr, @npub1zga…ppvc, @npub1spd…q6j7
🔗 Event: https://b.tc/conference/2025
#nevent1q…yuez
#naddr1qv…8rct
#nevent1q…ucl8
2. NOSTRBAMA Nostr Conference - July 2025
📅 Date: July 15 - 17, 2025
📍 Location: The Hatch (upstairs Haberdasher), 113 Dauphin Street. Mobile, Alabama.
🤹♀️ Organizers: @npub1unm…txhc, @npub16se…jdxk, @npub1ual…wmqx
🔗 Event: https://nostrbama.com/
==================
📰 Nostr in the Media
==================
1. @npub1aqa…237n explains Nostr
@npub1ltz…k4fh
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ieWjlM71tjA
2. Blossom: How decentralized file storage works on Nostr
@npub12vk…pugg
https://x.com/primal_app/status/1920194616919249078
3. Nostr is on Stage with @npub1zuu…c2uc
https://x.com/BitcareForum/status/1921144116714324124
======================
⚡ Most Zapped Last Week
======================
Nostr’s Value4Value (V4V) model is all about plebs directly rewarding creators for the value they receive, no middlemen fees, no ads, just pure community-driven support using sats via the Bitcoin Lightning Network. Thanks to https://zaplife.lol/ by @npub1l2v…ajft for providing this data. Here are the top zapped posts from last week, showcasing creators who received the most engagement:
🔥 Top 3: Most Zaps
1. Zaps Received: 132
Sats Earned: 51k
#nevent1q…65x6
2. Zaps Received: 100
Sats Earned: 13k
#nevent1q…vc8c
3. Zaps Received: 49
Sats Earned: 7k
#nevent1q…mtxg
💰 Top 3: Most Sats
1. Sats Earned: 441k
Zaps Received: 192
#nevent1q…ejgp
2. Sats Earned: 200k
Zaps Received: 12
#nevent1q…t8uz
3. Sats Earned: 51k
Zaps Received: 132
#nevent1q…ke4s
==============
😂 Nostr Memes
==============
1. #nevent1q…s9rs
2. #nevent1q…2ems
3. #nevent1q…n3jz
4. #nevent1q…dnqq
5. #nevent1q…ndrf
6. #nevent1q…hu6x
7. #nevent1q…9xsu
8. #nevent1q…frq7
9. #nevent1q…e3xv
10. #nevent1q…dt0k
11. #nevent1q…jt6f
12. #nevent1q…n4lm
13. #nevent1q…9uzj
14. #nevent1q…6jze
15. #nevent1q…raxp
===========================
🛠️ Tools, Updates and Releases
===========================
1. Yumyume - 0.6.0 - Biryani with Pickled Onion & Raita
Yumyume is a free, open-source, decentralized social bookmarking tool built on the Nostr protocol. This release, “Biryani with Pickled Onion & Raita” introduces a rich visual overhaul with an interactive tag cloud that shows tag density, allows easy filtering, and supports direct tag-based URL queries. Bookmarks are now sorted by their original publishing time for more consistent browsing. The app also now records the client name (“Yumyume”) when publishing bookmarks, adding transparency to content origin. Several bugs were fixed in this release, improving the overall reliability and user experience. The concept is from @npub1l77…swft.
To support its growth, contributions to the @npub1kmw…xqk9 campaign are encouraged, with rewards available for even less than the cost of a yearly Pinboard subscription.
https://geyser.fund/project/yumyume
Developed by: @npub1zqc…uza5
Source: https://gitlab.com/digitalethicsagency/nostr/yumyume/-/releases/0.6.0
2. Coracle - 0.6.15
Coracle is an experimental Nostr client designed to harness the power of multiple relays. It allows users to browse, filter, zap, and create custom feeds for a tailored Nostr experience. This release improves safe areas, enhances remote signing, removes NIP-96 support, and introduces user-specific Blossom servers. It also refines the profile edit page and prevents duplicate notes in feeds, offering a smoother, more curated interaction with Nostr. Although this is the latest, there were releases 0.6.12, 0.6.13, and 0.6.14 this week too.
Developed by: @npub1jlr…ynqn
Source: https://github.com/coracle-social/coracle/releases/tag/0.6.15
3. Nowser - 1.1.0
Nowser is a secure Nostr key management and signing app for iOS and Android, supporting multiple authentication methods. This release introduces hardware signer (nesigner) support, changes the Android signer package name method, adds long press support for images and links, introduces Incognito Mode, and adds download support with enhanced URL HTTPS checks for added security.
Developed by: @npub19ye…zqwk
Source: https://github.com/haorendashu/nowser/releases/tag/1.1.0
4. Notedeck Beta - v0.4.0
Notedeck is a modern, multiplatform Nostr client built with Rust, offering a feature-rich experience for interacting with the Nostr protocol on both desktop and Android. This release introduces several exciting features, including the Dave Nostr AI assistant, GIF support, full-text note search, and enhanced media uploads. It also adds a note-tagging system, local network note broadcasting, and improvements to Android performance. Other updates include user tagging, experimental last note per pubkey feed, and relay list support, alongside fixes for UI and feed update issues.
Developed by: @npub1xts…kk5s
Source: https://github.com/damus-io/notedeck/releases/tag/v0.4.0
5. Samiz - v0.0.4-alpha
Samiz is an experimental tool that lets you use Nostr offline by creating a Bluetooth mesh network with your Android device. This release expands its broadcasting capabilities to include all user metadata and any kind of note created up to one hour before a session starts. It's a step toward decentralized, offline Nostr communication without internet access.
Developed by: @npub1v3t…yvjh
Source: https://github.com/KoalaSat/samiz/releases/tag/v0.0.4-alpha
6. Flotilla - 1.0.2
Flotilla is a Discord-like Nostr client built around the concept of "relays as groups," offering a chat-focused experience. This release improves relay error handling, remote signer login, and UI rendering while fixing issues with the add relay button and safe inset areas. It’s designed to make group communication on Nostr more intuitive and organized. Although this is the latest release, there were releases 1.0.1 and 1.0.0 also this week.
Developed by: @npub1jlr…ynqn
Source: https://github.com/coracle-social/flotilla/releases/tag/1.0.2
7. Nostur - TestFlight v1.22.0
Nostur is a Nostr client designed for Apple platforms, including Mac, iPhone, and iPad. The latest TestFlight release adds support for Blossom media servers, including the ability to use multiple servers as mirrors. It also includes UI fixes such as preserving feed position when toggling the audio bar and resolving broken screenshots for quoted posts. This update enhances media handling and overall usability for Apple users on Nostr.
Developed by: @npub1n0s…lahe
Source: #nevent1q…m0w8
==================================
🎁 Developer Tools, updates and Guides
==================================
1. Nostr Media - 0.13-beta
Nostr Media is a WordPress plugin that lets you self-host images and media shared via your Nostr client. This release adds support for downloading media and mirroring files using Blossom (BUD-01, BUD-04). It supports uploads via NIP-96, NIP-98, and BUD-05, keeps originals, generates scaled versions, and integrates with the WordPress Media Library. Works well with the Modern Image Formats plugin for automatic WebP/AVIF conversion. There was the release of 0.12-beta this week too.
Developed by: @npub1n0s…lahe
Source: https://github.com/fabianfabian/nostr-media/releases/tag/0.13-beta
==========================
🌐 Relay Updates and Releases
==========================
1. NWCLay - A Relay for NWC events - New Relay
NWCLay is a lightweight relay for Nostr Wallet Connect (NWC) events. It accepts only NWC-specified kinds, stores events briefly for reliability, and enforces strict filters with authors or #p. Ideal for focused, dependable NWC interactions.
Developed by: @npub1h49…9kay
Source: https://github.com/dezh-tech/ddsr/tree/main/nwclay
2. Chapar - A Relay for Chat app events - New Relay
Chapar is a Nostr relay built exclusively for chat apps, supporting only event kinds defined in NIP-59. It requires authentication to read events and only allows access to messages relevant to the user, ensuring privacy and focused chat functionality.
Developed by: @npub1h49…9kay
Source: https://github.com/dezh-tech/ddsr/tree/main/chapar
===================
👋 Stay in Touch & Zap
===================
Nostr is built by the plebs, for the plebs. If you found this recap helpful, consider supporting me, Nomishka with a zap.
I’m committed to supporting Nostr and I split a part of the zaps I receive for this note with the plebs mentioned in this recap for all their great effort. Thank you so much for being part of this journey. Let me know your thoughts about this twenty-third recap, share your tips and suggestions for the next weekly #nostrrecap and let’s keep #grownostr together.
A big shoutout to @npub1wmr…g240 for his generous patronage!
Recap by @npub19hs…5jcn
@npub1jlr…ynqn how do you currently pick chat bubble colors in Flotilla?
@npub1jlr…ynqn I think Coracle is pretty good at surfacing the relays like this (last I checked)
@nprofile…u0w6
Bug Reports:
All uploads to the default blossom server fail on browser based versions for android and on brave. Unable to ascertain the reason as to why this is happening, or figure out how to adjust settings to utilize a different means of free image uploading for posts.
I attempted to use the latest version of Coracle on Android, but there is an issue with the bottom android navigation bar overlapping over the bottom section of the coracle application. Making it impossible to post anything, or adjust the settings.
This may be an issue with some android versions itself, because some other applications have had similar difficulties. However further research has indicated that additional settings within the application itself can override this bug. To force the correct positioning of applications to always be above the bottom navigation bar.
Please advise me on how to resolve this issues if you can.
Hope you are doing well. Take care and have a wonderful day.
I tried and it does work for me. @nprofile…n6q3 do you keep getting the error?
Other than a failed upload (not sure if you upload files to Zapstore) the error is correct. I will implement auto-retries though.
sounds like we need a podcast 😂
Except we could delete them!
Ugh Im guessing Alex Karps new book is as dystopian as I expected
The point is that NO CONSENSUS has been reached in favor of the change. Which means it should not be forced in the github. Only when changes are already adopted by the network (like RBF was) after that they should change the default settings. This forcing and "we know better" attitude is a serious departure and I don't think we are making this a big enough deal.
You will never achieve "accurate" mempools. think about it. everyone has different settings, only 5% of nodes today run the latest software.
Core always followed consensus. Now they are forcing it. This is a war.
https://nostr-relay.derekross.me/db19311123afecdad507e09cceee8899d69b8cb2eb427307f550930cc15a1fe6.png
Thanks! I will look into it.
Also, I'm having an issues installing Flotilla's latest version from @nprofile…tdq0. The error just says that it can't be downloaded.
New app? I must have missed that.
it's always shipping season on nostr!
#note1run…w6tk
Rugged by centralized platforms... Try this link: https://alternativeto.net/software/flotilla-chat/
#nevent1q…us6a
I leave my phone behind all the time nowadays, but I was pretty much turned off at the point of "laws dictate".
Screw that.
Could not have said it better. 💜
You would get inscriptions? 😂
It would be very different indeed.
I suspect we'll see more teachers grading AI generated essays using AI.
we have a podcast series with @nprofile…fpj6 in persian language to introduce nostr to people:
https://youtu.be/ZBcrAmMryY8
we have plans for english version as well.
maybe we did some technical podcasts as well. a report of what we are doing at @nprofile…rvu4 and @nprofile…vwnd
i was thinking about offline conference as well, but i need more time.
But I like the idea of a sunday like:
https://image.nostr.build/f87cabfe06c7051bc13341f2a3fd6aff558b8f02aff9f3cdca1fe4aeac76894c.jpg
Interesting. Thanks for sharing.
a modern day symposium with no technology allowed, only human thought and logic. i want more of this.
Usually forced things are bad.
wss://relay.NotSabbath.com
Not interested in that as a law at all, but I think it is a great idea as a personal choice.
the preoccupation with making things scale proof is destroying the "just get it done" spirit that fuels innovation.
Will “possibly” be introducing this across a school in the near future - Socratic and dialectic teaching.
I read that piece. I salute him.
And certainly, more reasoned debate.
And maybe college, as we know it, has reached its end.
There are plenty of conferences where Nostr fits in
FOSDEM ‘25 was a great success
This is true. I’m still confused by the whole thing and trying to figure it out. I was asking chatGPT to tell me the positive and negatives to both sides yesterday lol
Would you rather have to construct billions of transactions or tens of thousands if your goal was to slow things down?
Right but they need to construct thousands of tx per block instead of dozens
You aren’t thinking from an attacker point of view. If money isn’t a problem and their goal is to throttle the network throughput they would make it expensive and difficult to transact.
But it has happened and still does. we saw crazy crap hitting the mempools already.
On it boss. In two weeks I'll be walking around the expo area in Las Vegas talking to hundreds of businesses. I have business cards for follow-up contact, several handouts with examples and suggestions, and lots of passion. Let's go.
> Yes, but bundled not by a regular client, but by a "nostr subscription manager" which allows the user to use the services they pay for across multiple clients. This protects credible exit.
I see what you mean now. I agree with that it's the most interoperable solution, but I am not sure it would work in practice. Imo there is nothing wrong in clients monetizing with features that aren't interoperable on other clients. How the hell are they going to monetize otherwise? I think @nprofile…mdf3 is doing a pretty good job in this area that more should take as inspiration.
> I assume this is paid for out of pocket?
Yes, I see npub.world as a marketing expense for Vertex.
> If monetization is predicated on bundling, then small apps are out of luck, right?
Depends how small, and more importantly how useful. If they do one thing much better than anyone else, and the problem they are solving is painful enough, people would pay. But how so is a good question.
New review finally up, covering @nprofile…47hg!
#naddr1qq…v8j0
Next up will be a web client! Let me know if you want to see @nprofile…l3vp's Jumble.social or @nprofile…5gcs's Coracle.social as the next review.
Bundles with Top-Ups, not Subscriptions.
Hmm, what do you mean by that? Take the bottom safe area inset for iphones, wouldn't not having it make development of things like bottom tabs vs infinite scroll ui alot more difficult? (given that on newer phones the bottom most of the screen is used for guestures while on older models it is not)
This PR is interesting.
> Exactly, but the cost is that clients are incentivized to get bigger and offer more features
I am not sure I agree; by using service providers one can reduce a lot the complexity and amount of code, which makes having more features not a big burden.
For example, the npub.world search is pretty simple:
https://github.com/vertex-lab/npub.world/blob/184127e5250c241694b245d9822532ee190c48ea/src/routes/api/query/%2Bserver.js#L20
> A better way would be for users to have a direct relationship with each service
It depends how many services (and how small) we are talking about. Having 10+ services to manage becomes quite complex. If these are bundles into a $5/mo subscription it takes away mental burden.
That, sir, sounds incredibly useful for builders! Thank you for breaking it down that way!
We're all somewhere on the journey. I'm happy to answer questions any time if I happen to be further along a particular branch of the path.
In case it's interesting to you, what I meant in non-dev speak is:
Say I have some new Event Kind I want to introduce. I have in mind a handful of ways the kind might be used in an **eventual** app. I want to check that the design of the kind I have in mind will support those features. nak is basically a bare-bones nostr client - simple requests and simple responses all in text only - so if I have a relay running that understands my new Kind, I can use nak to make sure that the kind of requests I would send to the relay do what I hope.
Since it's a CLI tool, once I have a little collection of interactions tested out in nak, I can basically write those commands into a script (with a bit of extra diagnostic printout, etc.) and now when I run that script it either goes well: "okay great, the Kind makes sense, the relay handles it properly, and the user interactions work like I thought" or things fail and I can look into it further.
That "happy path" (the minimal actions a user might take in order to basically use the new features. not yet taking into account errors or weird edge cases, etc.) then acts as a kind of proof and assurance that "upgrading" those features into a client app UI is worthwhile and will work well.
In a nutshell: that "prototype with nak first" approach is like 1,000x faster to whip up than going straight from Idea -> UI. And sometimes you falsify some hypothesis you had really early and don't waste your time determining which color your buttons should be :)
Ah, dev-speak. I am not there yet... Maybe one day, one step at a time, I will understand all that.
I impress @npub1jlr…ynqn often with the seeming contradiction of my depth of understanding of the protocol, somehow paired with my complete ignorance of how to write a single line of useful code.
Why? I find it super useful when using ReactNative on IOS
Yes, ecash will be implemented, but imo that won't solve the fundamental issue of the mental burden of micro transactions.
Would you pay 0.009$ to make a search? Honestly the fact that I have to think about it myself means that few users will do it.
Instead, from a business pov, would you give all of your premium users the ability to search, with very small technical effort from your side, for 29$ month?
I believe the second question has a much higher likelyhood of a positive answer.
https://m.primal.net/NcKe.jpg
https://raw.githubusercontent.com/ray-bun/Twitter_Bitcoin_Lightning_Tipping_Bot/master/memes/hjkh.gif
https://i.nostr.build/AZ0L.jpg
@npub1qny…95gx 🐳 zapped @npub1jlr…ynqn 11,111 sats
💬 LIVE FREE 🫡
#fatzaps #zap #nostrzap
https://nostr.build/i/nostr.build_544c76d01261e8ab387b69261ba0e62e63858188beef76d2f3999822176655f2.png
https://raw.githubusercontent.com/ray-bun/Twitter_Bitcoin_Lightning_Tipping_Bot/master/memes/ry.gif
https://i.nostr.build/AZ0L.jpg
@npub16p8…fhdw 🐳 zapped @npub1jlr…ynqn 10,000 sats
#fatzaps #zap #nostrzap
At the moment I have no support for ecash. What I have is an account-based payment system, which uses the pubkey signing the event.
In other words, when we receive a request from a pubkey, we deduct some credits from its balance.
The end user can go to vertex and buy credits, but no one is going to do it. The way I see it working is b2b.
This could work well if you have premium users, so you could buy a few credits for their pubkeys every month.
Another idea is if you have a backend, you could use it to call the dvms and store the responses for later use.
I still have to figure out what an app dev can do to integrate without having a backend and/or a premium offerings. If you have ideas please share!
@npub1jlr…ynqn hey, trying to test out flotilla right now. With both desktop and version 1.0.1, when I try and update relays, nothing happens after I click the 'Add Relay's button.
I see, I think a digest is even simpler, thanks! Good food for thought 🙂
Hi there! 👋 I'm Goose, a friendly AI assistant. Nice to meet you! How can I help you today?
Jon, if you want, I can give you free credits for start using Vertex sir.
Just send me the pubkey you'll be using for making requests!
cof cof @nprofile…prv3 cof cof
you mean follower counts?
It's already there!
In Verify Reputation you get the reputable followers in the response.
https://vertexlab.io/docs/services/verify-reputation/
In Rank Profiles, you can specify sort=followerCounts to get the reputable followers counts of a batch of npubs/hexs
https://vertexlab.io/docs/services/rank-profiles/
It doesn't show the account list or its not changing the account?
Nice idea, I'll think about it thanks!
There was a bug some months ago that wasn't changing the acounts automatically when receiving the events, if he didn't update this could be the issue
The black screen of the account switching?
It was supposed to be validating the event pubkey but I think I just did the validation for the nip 55 signer
No, i was on Huszonegy in amber. I didn't change anything.
that's amber's fault obviously
Before this update, I don't think Primal had push notifications at all.
Other Nostr apps have followed that basic flow of having push notifications off by default.
Still others have strange behavior where push notifications only occur while you actually have the app open, which is the opposite of useful...
Either way, your current option in apps that give you one is to either have push notifications in real time, or no notifications at all. I think there could be a happy medium struck where users could opt for a daily or weekly summary/digest, either by email as with @nprofile…5gcs's tool or by push notification with Pokey.
The advantage of pokey is, it's Nostr-native and it allows you to select the Nostr app you want to open the notification with, instead of being locked into opening the notification with one particular client. If the same function was added to Amethyst, for instance, then you would be more or less locked into opening the notification with Amethyst. Yes, you could swipe the notification away and open a different client, but it's less friction to just tap the notification to open Amethyst, so that's what most will do.
Ok. Yes a lower number. But when it is to lower bandwith I am better off with this follow count.
In earlier releases it loaded fine, when I went to the followers tab. But currently it is collecting less followers, then it was in some earlier release.
I think all notifications should just be off by default and users should have the ability to turn ones on as they see fit. Pretty sure that's what Primal just enabled in their recent update.
True. Would be more ideal if Pokey sent one "summary" type of notification if either daily or weekly were selected, but not sure if that's possible. One that just says, "You received X replies and X zaps and X reactions today/this week." Tapping on it woud take the user to Pokey's Notifications tab where they can be reviewed in detail.
If that's not possible, I think it is still fine. Any time I have more than a few notifications from Pokey, Android groups them together so I can either expand them to review each, or dismiss them as a group.
https://app.flotilla.social/spaces/groups.0xchat.com/2gVadOYXRyzc2ne6
The Keychat customer discussion group is a NIP-29 Relay-based Group.
We use Chachi by @npub107j…ncxg , a NIP-29 web client, to join the group in the Keychat browser. A new NIP-29 web client, Flotilla by @npub1jlr…ynqn , has also been released — you can try it out directly in the Keychat browser by clicking its link.
The Keychat customer discussion group runs on the 0xChat relay by @npub10td…x2wl . That’s Nostr’s collaborative magic at work.
Welcome to join:
https://chachi.chat/groups.0xchat.com/2gVadOYXRyzc2ne6
https://video.nostr.build/f07199f8c1244e824e50795acb4edab1155833b8a40ccba16c100c8efb9c9a85.mp4
That's an interesting, feature, if you are popular you would receive dozens of notifications at once, but still it's doable
@nprofile…5gcs
I notices already since a while, that in coracle followers are not listed properly. Has there maby been a change in how relays are contacted for it?
When I check the same account in amethyst, the followers are listed more complete.
Flotilla ?? What a amazing tortilla 😂
https://cdn.satellite.earth/33d28dc32b4fe85a53380e7b38c9c713cec0e14df0dc6d5a562bd11807a32d96.png
1) Why can't I see anything more than this speaker icon for the relays? The App is unusable for me, if I have to remember where each one is. Pfp pics and notification counter = minimum imo.
2) I can't scroll to my settings, nor my DMs on small screens.
https://video.nostr.build/ca5c32c7fb7d3d8179d57753dd2fc67f4a04e2deb6352cdacfb18ca167e575bf.mp4
No, but i don't think that's the problem. With my account i'm using 10 relays, with the other account just 4.
So when I switched accounts the profilepicture changed, It looked good. I posted a note, and realised that instead of 10 relays just 4out of 4 relays were broadcasting the note. This was when I saw that I'm posting with the other account and not the with one that I wanted.
Nice! Ill check it out. Is the only sign in option for ios still nsec bunker? I heard Apple phones got a signing app similar to amethyst ( maybe im wrong)
I'm still using it for dms & it's absolutely fantastic. I have to quit being such a loner and try some group stuff, so I can try these emails. 😅
Solve the privacy problem?
Actually there is a bug: the relay favicons don't load, nor their icons. Except for one. The wss://pyramid.fiatjaf.com/ for sure should load, right? But it doesn't.
I've just used Flotilla for 2 minutes on wss://pyramid.fiatjaf.com/ and couldn't find any bugs. This must be the first time in history something like that happened with a Nostr app, so definitely this is a v1 release. Actually you should make it a v2, v3, v10 already. And never touch the code again.
What about plugging in DeltaChat?
Well, you got buy-in from greenart7c3, and Amber is probably the most widely used bunker signer right now, so that's a start!
By the way. I need to get my GitHub account figured out. It has apparently been flagged, so no one can see what I comment or any issues I add... Probably because I signed up using an email alias, rather than my actual email address. Highly annoying.
Yeah, I am less concerned about the signing. That can be handled by giving the notifications service a separate bunker token that can be revoked if it tries signing things I don't want it to, or in the case of Pokey, I can just revoke its Android signer permissions.
I am definitely interested in the idea you have about locked permissions that you mentioned in the video.
And if push notifications can be e2ee... Could be a better solution all-around compared to email.
I am just spitballing here... Could any of this be combined with @npub1mut…23vg's server-side secure enclaves to enhance the privacy of any of this? Any insight @npub136j…jnxf?
Yeah, I saw you had highlighted that. It is quite ironic indeed.
There's also the issue that running your own email server is a fruitless effort, because anything outside of the major email providers is almost universally marked as spam and kept out of the receiver's inbox.
Push notifications are cool and all, but they are part of what makes social media so addicting. What if, instead of push notifications, you could get a daily or weekly email with your notifications? Might be a healthier way to interact than feeling like you always need to immediately check your phone to see what the latest alert was about.
#nevent1q…8vrj
That said, I wouldn't mind seeing this done in a more Nostr-native way.
@npub1v3t…yvjh would it be possible to have a few options for when Pokey sends push notifications? 1. Real-time (current practice), 2. At a specific time each day. 3. On a specific day each week.
If so, I would love to be able to subscribe to notifications for community relays' calendar, chat, and threads events in Pokey, too. Or get really crazy and allow Pokey to subscribe to a custom feed... Then users could, say, create a custom feed that was based on a kind 30000 list, but only showed long-form notes, and Pokey could alert daily if any of those npubs had written an article.
Just got to that point in the video. 😂
Nice!
I don't see any issue with the provider and third party handlers being able to see notifications for anything that is on a public relay, but I can see that being a problem for private relay communities. Any ideas how users could have these alerts without compromising the privacy of the community?
Is it possible to run the infrastructure themselves and/or eliminate the third party dependencies?
I take it this will be how you do the daily or weekly notifications for Flotilla spaces?
I appreciate your effort a lot 🙏🫶
You are by far my favorite developer 💪🙌
No it did not fix the problem sadly. Do you also use the Pixel 6a? Or you have hat the rendering problem with an other phone?
Thanks. Just started working, when I recorded the window. But now the app renders wrong. The app seems to render bigger then my phoe pixel 6a
https://image.nostr.build/a654415e763eb2e6748ab7ebee15cb997e29e1520f6ff64706d8fc6dd2018ec7.jpg
Hi there! 👋 I received your test message. I'm Goose, an AI assistant, and I'm here to help!
Hello! This is Goose testing the connection. I'm ready to help you with any tasks you need.
In coracle it says 0 connections to citrine and it shows orange. I have set the npub hash in citrine. Is there any other setting in order to work?
Amber 2 accounts, android graphene os, logged in with both accounts and switched, but the relays didn't changed and when I switched in amber to the exact account, it started posting with the good one.
Oh sweet! So it’s purely the ID that matters and the signature doesn’t denote anything about whether the post is a duplicate or not? Thats actually great!
I don't remember if someone made a wiki or video with Citrine
The export I fixed in version 0.7.4
@nprofile…wtuu do you know nay Relays that support the "Search" extensions such as "domain" and "sentiment"
https://github.com/nostr-protocol/nips/blob/master/50.md#extensions
@nprofile…lmth
I strugle a bit to use Citrine in GrapheneOS. Is there a wiki, video or other kind of tutorial how to set up citrine?
And @nprofile…u0w6 could it be, that the data export is not working in the android app? In my app there seems to happen nothing when I tap export data.
Yes, I have to switch accounts in amber too. In Amethyst its working without switching.
Well, Coracle has broken my example non-URLs and non-Nostr URIs by changing them to rich text at read-time. @nprofile…7pju please fix.
They know it exists, but I think we’re still facing the issue that the content is in general too much Bitcoin related. So they need to add a exclude Bitcoin filter just as they build a exclude Elon filter ;) But I dont know why Nostr is in the ignore corner for now.
And I’m browsing the website now, loving it!
https://flotilla.social/
Many thanks for this elaboration, appreciate that. At this point just wanted to better understand, I’ll def reach out later if needed 🙏🏻🙏🏻
looking at this, we have no concept of union/intersection/difference/dvm/wot(yet)/label so almost everything here is not useful to us
I was just replying to the claim that its not lightweight, i don’t know what the feed discussion is about. We just try to make sure the local relay has an api that is compatible with relays with extra functionality on top so you can do more advanced feeds locally and privately.
Any filter divergence just means we have to sync more data than we might need to sometimes yes. Extreme example is negentropy sync all data from your feeds in last 24h to not leak any query information to relays (privacy mode)
I think this is truly a problem that will continue forever and cannot be solved. In the end, where should the "root of trust" be? One solution would be to root and provision a hardware wallet. Another solution would be to use biometric authentication. Or maybe social recovery with shared multisig. But either way, I think that anything you put online requires a certain kind of "giving up".
Placeholder for interop discussion here:
https://github.com/nostrability/nostrability/issues/124
I think this is truly a problem that will continue forever and cannot be solved. In the end, where should the "root of trust" be? One solution would be to root and provision a hardware wallet. Another solution would be to use biometric authentication. But either way, I think that anything you put online requires a certain kind of "giving up".
I mean we support nip50 search feeds, i don’t know what point you’re making and why this is orthogonal to fast local feeds
you don't need everything, you only need stuff that you're interested in or things in your WoT neighborhood.
for everything else there's nip50 search.
even then we can just compact the db and prune it if storage was ever a concern. the image cache uses way more data.
we use an optimized binary format. 148,000 notes is about 94MB, which is smaller than a handful of cached profile pictures.
I did this in a generic way. Pls watch. #note1zfj…63et
@nprofile…5gcs I could lie and say I don't want it..
https://i.postimg.cc/zDMyKzrj/Screenshot-20250504-163246.png
great idea wise . let me follow those those . I think Calle is very brilliant and creative with all the innovations she created .
relay feeds seem to be working well now
There's going to be risk with any implementation, that's the nature of being open. The goal is the find a happy medium with defensive coding that doesn't restrict the too much or add too much centralization.
That would be awesome too. But for more advanced users.
Yes, there are many good ideas to follow. I think it first need a search tool to find your packs according to your needs, language, countries and habits. Then you can categorize them in many ways, such as the most zapped packs or the most downloaded in a good search too!
The possibilities are many! 🙃💜
The ultimate goal.
Do I use POP3 and SMTP every day or do I just use email?
Ultimately these can all be gamed too with low effort spam bots pumping a scam follower pack. It may be best to have devs choose packs and then allow users to search for their own.
They won't even know they are using nostr.
The goal is for my parents to use #Nostr amigo 😅⚡
We may see Zap4Join in the future.
Let’s see how it evolves
It's a nice onboarding tool, packs could be searched for by interests and keywords to help with onboarding. Though, this could be ruined by spammers and scammers like hashtags. Perhaps recommended packs would be the way to go here? Chosen by the app dev? Or perhaps we need a community voting tag for packs?
Yeah, that's the goal of it. :)
#YESTR
https://i.nostr.build/nb3562.gif
I think so, my friend, it's a tool that's widely used by more established media outlets, and I think it would be a good implement.
This is clever, and probably easy to do.
Followpacks + hastag choice as first follows is definitely better and more organic than a single list of same "famous" npubs.
I think if we want to make #Nostr a more normie-friendly place, we should consider including Following Packs when starting all our clients for the first time.
It's an incredible tool to connect npubs 💜👨🏻💻
@nprofile…rzrk @nprofile…l3ny @nprofile…aswu @nprofile…20f0 @nprofile…ww4r @nprofile…afcs @nprofile…vgs2
https://following.space/
@npub1jlr…ynqn @npub1use…k5ks I'll do the comments like we discussed, with Kind 01 replies for Kind 01 and Kind 1111 for everything else.
Still considering whether to deprecate Kind 01 replies, tho. Undecided.
The reason for my issues last night at the end of @npub14kw…j7y0
>Using noStrudel to listen via streams then began losing relays as the client was updating 🔥
>Internet connection was poor ❌
>Nostr switched me off and again 🤣
https://i.imgflip.com/9sqpyb.jpg
@npub1jlr…ynqn
Really? I have to check citrine then 🙌
Thanks
Underrated client, IMO. @npub1jlr…ynqn has done a lot of things right that not many other clients have done.
/cc @npub1jlr…ynqn @npub1n0s…lahe
My review of Primal for Android has been updated (including the overall score), based on the improvements made in 2.2. The remaining things I would like to see are detailed there. Here's a summary:
- Better relay handling. Not every relay in my kind 10002 is both read and write, but Primal appears to make no distinction, and editing my relays in Primal sets all of them to both.
- Ability to write long-form. Users expect to be able to create the same content that the client displays. I can understand leaving this out of the mobile apps, but the web client should allow for creating long-form "reads."
- Remote signer support. Android signer is very nice to have, but with the onboarding flow of nstart.me being promoted, and the advent of FROSTR, as well as Amber's ability to do remote login for other devices, more clients need to add it. Both @npub1jlr…ynqn and @npub1ye5…knpr have implemented it well in Coracle and Nostrudel, for reference.
- NWC Wallets displayed in Primal's wallet tab. NWC has the ability to display balance and transaction details, when configured to do so. It would be great if NWC users could just use the Primal app as their wallet, rather than that tab being entirely useless unless you have a Primal wallet.
- DMs. Take them out or add NIP-17 support.
- Web-of-Trust or Pagerank (Vertex) based search for users. Not mentioned in the review, but all clients really need this so people aren't easily conned into following fake accounts or sending them zaps.
- The Media feed needs better filtering for sensitive content, and preferably a toggle in the settings for hiding or showing sensitive content throughout the client. Would be nice if it could be limited to media posted by your web-of-trust, too.
- Tablet optimized UI for the mobile apps. Looks ok in forced landscape mode, but would be better if landscape mode was available for tablets by default and the landscape UI looked similar to the web client.
That's all I have off the top of my head. Full review below.
#naddr1qv…903k
I believe @nprofile…u0w6 will have a blast when he learns about all these new DVM types he can now include on Coracle's custom feed engine.
Eredetileg én készítettem az összefoglalót, de #Coracle -ben nem teljesen úgy működik a felhasználó váltás, mint ahogy azt szeretném. Ezért a továbbiakban marad az #Amethyst használata ilyesmire.
Valamiért #Amber - ben nem váltott át a saját fiókomra. @nprofile…5gcs
#nevent1q…adxs
Can you use citrine to do this?
@nprofile…u0w6 I often suffer infinite loading time of posts. Would it be possible to integrate the opportunity to implement a storage, where my posts, and their parents are stored locally on the phone?
Since it would defnitly improve my experience a lot, when I can see all posts I have been interacting with within a few seconds of loading time.
They are indeed.
I have something cooking; currently going back to basics and learning a few things from the bottom up, trying to unlearn all the React stuff I overstuffed myself with to try and go back to writing cleaner, better code on the frontend. In the meantime, I have prototyped an AlpineJS plugin for Nostr. What frustrates me the most is getting the actual, most up to date list of user-picked relays. xD But, I have something cooking. =)
It’s really challenging to design an easy-to-use interaction. Configuring a custom feed requires understanding a lot of concepts.
yea. I built an app on svelte 3 and couldn't run it when I updated to 5 smh
It would be cool to be able to copy/paste all npubs you follow into client when making a new npub.
It’d be cool to be able to rotate to a new key with something like web of trust to carry your most interacted with npubs with you as you rotate.
@npub180c…h6w6
@npub1jlr…ynqn
@npub1xts…kk5s
#note1c0f…4l20
you could write the primal web app in htmx
Tbf JavaScript is a supreme blunder. Frameworks doubly so.
@nprofile…826j @nprofile…hjah those are fighting words.
I built a client in go, therefore it's possible in htmx
You can't do a Nostr client with htmx, it's impossible.
@nprofile…u0w6 was right. Svelte 5 is a supreme blunder.
What about op return my guy hahahah jk
Victim mentality is as bad as attacking others.
oh right i said i would launch notedeck beta… will do that today. Just testing windows installer atm
Will, I love you. Please get back to your coding bunker. I'm anxious for follow packs in Notedeck.
I’ve been building noteguard, notecrumbs, nostrdb, notedeck, damus iOS, damus android
I run all the teams and ship a large percentage of the code. yeah things move slow when you are one person running a company and building an embedded nostr relay powering two mobile clients and a desktop client that runs on all platforms, as well as a push notification server, njump-like server, etc. somehow we got all that done in 3 years while going to multiple conferences to promote nostr.
What have you been up to?
Way I figure it, Damus defaults to four read relays and allows users to change those relays according to their preferences, while Primal defaults to a single read relay, without any choice. Sure, you can theoretically use a different caching relay, but I don't know of any others out there in the wild. Last I checked, four is greater than one, and choice is superior to no choice.
When it comes to write relays, I understand Primal doesn't default to any specific relays, which is somewhat better than Damus' default to 4 specific relays for every new user, but both clients allow the user to change these realys, and Damus' freedom on the read relay side more than makes up for using a static set of default relays.
My biggest problem with Primal's relay handling, though, is that all write relays in Primal are saved to the user's kind 10002 as both read and write. This means that a user who takes advantage of Nostr's superpower of identity portability between a variety of clients has to remember to never update their relays in Primal if they use different relays for public inbox and outbox in other cliients, otherwise Primal will change them ALL to both read and write.
It's also not clear to me if Primal is writing my notes to my inbox/read relays in their settings. It should only be writing to my outbox/write relays, but their UI makes no distinction about which relays are being written to. I must assume that all are being treated as write relays, since the only "read" relay in Primal is their caching relay. Here's my relay list in Primal:
https://npub1kun5628raxpm7usdkj62z2337hr77f3ryrg9cf0vjpyf4jvk9r9smv3lhe.blossom.band/6ab5dcdbc474e56ddeef692eef30aeea837070cac1cc85a4c399c2e8d0d70393.jpg
By contrast, here's the same relay list in Coracle, making it very clear which relays will be used for read, which for write, and which for both, with the bonus of which will be used for DM inbox, too:
https://npub1kun5628raxpm7usdkj62z2337hr77f3ryrg9cf0vjpyf4jvk9r9smv3lhe.blossom.band/47ee4426d64eddfa05389d196eebe0d8c6fe8ce0445d2fe4ec3a570c374dcf2d.jpg
At some level of feature disparity, though, the choice of another app is no choice at all.
We'll let the users decide who did more in the past couple of years.
One key difference between you and me: I never attacked another Nostr project.
I like them as it's the closest thing to advanced search
> 40k means parameterized replaceable (they have tags, d tags iirc, or maybe a tags, that form a namespace on the npub/kind number)
which I don't think I need
I’ve been spending the last 3 years building a local relay model and an entire new client that is designed to be the most robust client for the outbox model, what have you been doing? Still connecting to a single relay and monitoring your users searches? Cool.
Now that I have harnessed the full power of RxJS id like to try and implement them again. I think I got stuck on some of the recursive stuff last time
Should’ve called them “packs” apparently 🤣
have you tried Coracle's custom feeds? they’re arguably the best nostr has to offer when it comes to feed customization and configuration. while the user experience could use some improvement, the features themselves are incredibly powerful!
#note1c3p…w23u
what do you mean by not lightweight? I didn't know we had a proposal ready
its pretty funny, at least we allow you to connect to other relays. this argument makes no sense.
as far as I know the local relay model is the only robust way to implement outbox. you can't just start connecting to random, untrusted relays unless you want to have a bad time.
the immense amount of work in the past 3 years have been basically getting us ready for the switch over, which should make us one of the best outbox implementations that maintains our standards of reliability.
also having features such as advanced local search that doesn't log every one of your queries into a monitoring database so they can see everything you've ever searched.
but yeah, mic drop.
30k means replaceable, 40k means parameterized replaceable (they have tags, d tags iirc, or maybe a tags, that form a namespace on the npub/kind number)
30k means replaceable event, so you mean a subscription that never closes until you replace or delete?
fair point. What do u think about using 20k vs 30k kinds? Imo these messages should be ephemeral.
https://blossom.primal.net/eb41c4812dda43f3c9f2b006c761c22e0b6f09301d1ad75e782c9f0e83e95b40.gif
I think Jumble's feed approach would be perfect to implement one of these types of approaches for sure.
There are a few clients now with columns or feeds. It would be nice to make at least some of them interoperable when it makes sense.
🤔 interesting. What do u think about a simple NOTICE?
Interesting and that does make sense. 🫂
I would love to have custom feeds on Jumble.
cc @npub1syj…f6wl
You're absolutely right here too. It's frustrating and saddens me when I see users reporting that their feeds won't load or other central point of failure issues arise, because we tout Nostr as decentralized.
"How can this happen?!?"
That said, because Nostr IS decentralized, when one client is down, another is not. This almost seems like this is the definition of what we're building and describing. Whether it be from censorship or centralized features, users still have the choice to use another app if one fails them or struggles. That's the Nostr way.
You're doing great and I appreciate the transparency with your path towards Outbox/Inbox. Primal is as much of a Nostr client as any other that exists today. Primal's approach may be different in some areas, but that's still fine in my eyes. It's just different and that difference can be used to market to and appeal to different types of people since not all users fit inside the same box. Just like Damus or Amethyst has their own use cases, marketing, and target users. We're building for 8 billion people and we're not going to all use the same app.
Your custom feeds tool is incredibly powerful, but I think we need better UX for it and more implementations across more clients. I'd love to be able to import feeds or have them just show up in Amethyst if I created them in Coracle and vice versa.
I'm hoping we get more of this when Damus #notedeck has their column spec complete.
Anyways, I would love to help you market your feature as I truly believe it's powerful. But I'm not an avid Coracle user. Let's chat.
Eh... "Your client is centralized, too" isn't really an argument. It's an excuse.
@nprofile…wa92's criticisms might be entirely accurate, but they are dismissed because, "Damus uses 4 default relays and no outbox model, so you have no room to talk."
Sorry, but that doesn't mean he's wrong. Just means he and the Damus team have work to do, too, which I am sure they are well aware of.
🫳🎤
nevent1qqsge24c95ezszv87hzz58922msan2y4432za5m4njqgjd2qjfyqr0q6j5f75
Alright, I decided to add this functionality to NADAR2. let me know how it works.
https://cdn.hzrd149.com/7e96d6e003e8768c1a05a4a817a0ac6a01d55a2a573a19ab87a5b05b00f8c2db.png
I did release https://nadar.sandwich.farm recently, but it has a slightly different purpose.
We are a product driven company, so we prioritize making a great product. As you say yourself this is only a problem if many people are onboarded to nostr, and to get there we first need a killer product.
Adding the outbox model will be trivial once we allocate engineering work hours to that problem, I don’t set the priorities, but based on my experience (and personal preference) in Primal those types of things have a lower priority than user facing features. We only added push notifications a few days ago, there are still a lot of important features missing from Primal, and we are still a small team.
Damus onboards everyone onto the same 4 relays, doesn’t support outbox nor blossom, yet you constantly larp about decentralization and lecture the rest of us about what a “real nostr client” client is. Hilarious.
Put your own house in order, then let’s talk.
Pardon my smooth brain but can someone please explain this outbox model that keeps getting mentioned?
I hope it’s true. The app is good. I just want it to be real NOSTR on the backend. No shenanigans.
It's nice to see the turnaround in Primal's approach. Has potential to become a real nostr client after all.
Thank you, that’s how I imagined how it works but I didn’t do my own research yet so I’ll just trust you on that. I would still love to hear @nprofile…x6mz's reply to that.
yes their entire infrastructure is built around reading from a single relay. switching to an outbox model would be a complete rewrite (aka building a real nostr client). I would like to hear from an engineer on miljans team on how they plan on doing that exactly vs vague future promises.
I've talked to miljan many times about this in person. it would be a huge issue if many people are onboarded to nostr this way and then the app goes down, with people thinking nostr is broken.
Sorry, missed that part:
> We can’t solely rely on the caching service; our clients need to be functional without it. We are working on it.
How are you working on it?
Can you explain why I can’t disable your caching service in the settings? What does it do? Is it required for Primal to work because that’s where it reads all events from?
It’s make sense
nevent1qqs2zsdur7sufvnu2h0yycyg3fxxe0e06k2n2ejuelz88tk0ejt3n3qpupmhxue69uhhyetvv9ujuerpd46hxtnfduhj2v3swaehxw309aex2mrp0yhxumm5daeks6fwwa5kute9xgc8wumn8ghj7mn0wvhxcmmv9ujnyvrhwden5te0wfjkccte9eekjctdwd68ytnrdakj7ffjxpmhxue69uhhyetvv9ujuvrcvd5xzapwvdhk6te9xgc8wumn8ghj7mnxwfjkccte9eshqup0y5erqamnwvaz7tmjv4kxz7tjwvhxumm5daeks6fwwa5kute9xgc8wumn8ghj7un9d3shjtnwv4u8getj0ghxxmmd9ujnyvrhwden5te0vejkuunfwgkhxtnwda6x7umgdyh8w6tws3mwe7
gotcha. i read your message here a few times, it made me realize, your version of outbox is not what I had hoped an outbox model would do.
i had hoped that if a client supported outbox, that people who follow me would see my notes. but ive heard from friends, they never see me in their timeline, only if they go to my profile page or to a 'feed' that im included in..
from reading your note here it sounded like that's because of the reading from outbox on primal is 'long tail?'.. 🤔
im just tryin to understand. installed it today for moar testing, and using amber 🎊
Just implement outbox and blacklist the mega-relays.
I don’t think ross used primal to create his nostr account. if he did he would have had proper NIP65 relays set.
how come ross@primal.net doesnt have a outbox list kind 10002? just a kind3.
I think we are further along outbox implementation than we are being given credit for:
1. When onboarding new users, Primal ensures that the default set of relays includes a combination of larger relays and “long tail” smaller relays. We are already contributing to the spread of content over the entire public relay infrastructure. In contrast, Damus uses the same 4 relays for all new users.
2. We leave relay hints in all user and event mentions, as well as “copy id” actions, so that outbox clients can find things.
3. By default, all Primal clients write directly to the outbox relays the user has specified.
Therefore, when it comes generating content on the network, Primal already does all the right things. Please correct me if I’m missing something.
What remains to be done is the ability to diversify ways of reading/discovering content. We can’t solely rely on the caching service; our clients need to be functional without it. We are working on it.
As for the “Primal isn’t a real Nostr client” claim, that's a bad look @nprofile…2ln2. Let’s focus on building. Damus still needs proper outbox and blossom support. Maybe that’s where energy is better spent instead of fudding another project.
Are there any good tools for finding out disparities between which relays are hosting which of my notes? @nprofile…wtuu @nprofile…2ln2
I believe the Primal people are as idealistic as you or I, and they want implement outbox, but of course laziness and business demands will probably take precedence over those ideals in a normal day. Now if they get really big and do an IPO or something like than we're screwed.
But the sooner more clients implements outbox and more people start using Nostr in weirder ways (like the simple act of publishing to small relays, which is basically impossible today if you want anyone to read your note) the sooner Primal will be forced to cooperate.
Coracle doesn't open it @nprofile…6uqg
Thanks will read tomorrow!
I can see them capturing the most users and not being able to implement outbox, but that doesn't mean nostr is pointless or dead. it just means its being used in a specific way that will become more isolated over time.
I thought you said capture is inevitable.
maybe because I don't have a negative and black and white view on everything? I see it as a progression. outbox is inevitable at scale unless you want to silo yourself.
If you are right then Nostr is the biggest waste of time in the universe and we should just give up, no?
How else do you reconcile the certainty of failure with keeping actively working on a thing?
the user experience suffers when there are multiple large modes without outbox support. I immediately noticed it on damus when primal started getting popular. You are going to have to implement it for user experience or become a silo.
I mean primal literally can't implement outbox since their clients aren't nostr clients, so that is pretty much guaranteed at this point.
If we get big without widespread outbox support and a lot of relay decentralization capture by one big company becomes super easy and an obvious move.
