Daniel Hoffman [ARCHIVE] / is on Nostr

⚠️ This account is not associated with a real person. It's an archival account for mailing list messages.
🗓️ Active from 2016-08-08 to 2016-08-14
💬 Posted a total of 10 messages
📚 Participated in the following categories: bitcoin-dev
🔇 Please do not DM this user as it's used for archive purposes only.

Last Notes

2023-06-07 17:52:43

- reply

📅 Original date posted:2016-08-14
📝 Original message:Have you tried out reddit's /r/btc and /r/Bitcoin?
On Sat, Aug 13, 2016 at 10:41 PM, Cannon via bitcoin-dev <
bitcoin-dev at lists.linuxfoundation.org> wrote:
> I understand this mailing list is for topics relating to development. Is
> there a general users mailing list for bitcoin related things such as
> questions that are not necessarily related to dev?
>
> --
>
> Cannon
> PGP Fingerprint: 2BB5 15CD 66E7 4E28 45DC 6494 A5A2 2879 3F06 E832
> Email: cannon at cannon-ciota.info
> Bitmessage Address: BM-2cVaTbC8fJ5UDDaBBs4jPQoFNp1PfNhxqU
> Ricochet-IM: ricochet:hfddt2csxnsb2mdq
> _______________________________________________
> bitcoin-dev mailing list
> bitcoin-dev at lists.linuxfoundation.org
> https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/bitcoin-dev
>
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2023-06-07 17:52:39

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📅 Original date posted:2016-08-13
📝 Original message:I started work on the decoder. It works by comparing each cycle of the sine
wave recorded with a certain frequency (freq_t). The function that does
this currently returns the last sample that falls in that range over all
samples. The longest chain to match up with a certain frequency the best is
interpreted as that frequency (assuming it passes an entrance floor to
separate it from static). I will probably extrapolate the sine wave to
more samples (320 kbps+), but this works OK just for testing. I am also
prepping the docs per the official BIP spec.
GitHub is https://github.com/Dako300/BIP-0170
Is it okay to host the BIP on my own GitHub, or do I need to host it on a
more official repository?
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2023-06-07 17:52:39

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📅 Original date posted:2016-08-08
📝 Original message:Sorry about the last email, I deleted the repository to get rid of the BIP
number to prevent confusion. The correct address is
https://github.com/Dako300/BIP
This is my BIP idea: a fast, robust, and standardized way for representing
Bitcoin addresses over audio. It takes the binary representation of the
Bitcoin address (little endian), chops that up into 4 or 2 bit chunks
(depending on type, 2 bit only for low quality audio like american
telephone lines), and generates a tone based upon that value. This started
because I wanted an easy way to donate to podcasts that I listen to, and
having a Shazam-esque app (or a media player with this capability) that
gives me an address automatically would be wonderful for both the consumer
and producer. Comes with error correction built into the protocol
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2023-06-07 17:52:37

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📅 Original date posted:2016-08-10
📝 Original message:thats how i thought it worked originally, but im not well versed on that,
so i took his word for it
On Aug 10, 2016 12:38 PM, "Pieter Wuille via bitcoin-dev" <
bitcoin-dev at lists.linuxfoundation.org> wrote:
> On Wed, Aug 10, 2016 at 7:28 PM, Erik Aronesty via bitcoin-dev
> <bitcoin-dev at lists.linuxfoundation.org> wrote:
> > By sending a public seed, there's no way for someone to use the
> transmitted
> > address and trace the total amount of payments to it.
>
> Worse. By revealing a public seed, anyone who has seen it (= anyone
> who ever pays you through it) can identity all payments to _any_
> address derived from that seed.
>
> --
> Pieter
> _______________________________________________
> bitcoin-dev mailing list
> bitcoin-dev at lists.linuxfoundation.org
> https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/bitcoin-dev
>
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2023-06-07 17:52:36

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📅 Original date posted:2016-08-10
📝 Original message:Erik
What would be the advantages of transmitting a BIP32 public seed, instead
of a plain address?
Theo
I didn't really think of that, but that's genius.
On Wed, Aug 10, 2016 at 6:49 AM, Theo Chino via bitcoin-dev <
bitcoin-dev at lists.linuxfoundation.org> wrote:
> Another use for the audio would be for watches that can listen but can't
> use a camera (ie: Samsung S2), so sound would be great.
>
> On Wed, Aug 10, 2016 at 7:42 AM, Erik Aronesty via bitcoin-dev <
> bitcoin-dev at lists.linuxfoundation.org> wrote:
>
>> NOTE:
>>
>> Addresses aren't really meant to be broadcast - you should probably be
>> encoding BIP32 public seeds, not addresses.
>>
>> OR simply:
>>
>> - Send btc to rick at q32.com
>> - TXT record _btc.rick.q32.com is queried (_<coin-code>.<name>.<domain>)
>> - DNS-SEC validation is *required*
>> - TXT record contains addr:[<bip32-pub-seed>]
>>
>> Then you can just say, in the podcast, "Send your bitcoin donations to
>> rick at q32.com". And you can link it to your email address, if your
>> provider lets you set up a TXT record. (By structuring the TXT record
>> that way, many existing email providers will support the standard without
>> having to change anything.)
>>
>> This works with audio, video, web and other publishing formats... and
>> very little infrastructure change is needed.
>>
>>
>> On Wed, Aug 10, 2016 at 6:41 AM, Tier Nolan via bitcoin-dev <
>> bitcoin-dev at lists.linuxfoundation.org> wrote:
>>
>>> Have you considered CDMA? This has the nice property that it just
>>> sounds like noise. The codes would take longer to send, but you could send
>>> multiple bits at once and have the codes orthogonal.
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> bitcoin-dev mailing list
>>> bitcoin-dev at lists.linuxfoundation.org
>>> https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/bitcoin-dev
>>>
>>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> bitcoin-dev mailing list
>> bitcoin-dev at lists.linuxfoundation.org
>> https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/bitcoin-dev
>>
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> bitcoin-dev mailing list
> bitcoin-dev at lists.linuxfoundation.org
> https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/bitcoin-dev
>
>
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2023-06-07 17:52:34

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📅 Original date posted:2016-08-09
📝 Original message:Thomas
In all honesty, I shouldn't have added the multiple feature. It should
always stay to one and have the Bitcoin address's built in checksum do all
of the heavy lifting (or implement another checksum into the protocol).
Having said that, it would make the most sense to not include BIP21
requests. The frequencies that are going to be used are prone to being
changed (probably moving them into the ultrasound range, at least for the
16 tones)
Luke Dashjr
I thought it was only 12, will change it accordingly.
Chris
I looked at Audio Modem and will probably look at the others soon as well.
The general idea of this BIP is to see if you all even approve of the idea
of sending Bitcoin addresses over sound waves. I will push it into the
ultrasound, and I might implement phase modulation.
On Tue, Aug 9, 2016 at 8:09 PM, Thomas Daede via bitcoin-dev <
bitcoin-dev at lists.linuxfoundation.org> wrote:
> If this is just encoding BIP-21 addresses, it is basically an "audio QR
> code". In this case, does publishing it as a BIP still make sense? (Not
> to imply that it doesn't, but it's something you should consider.)
>
> Please look at existing implementations of audio modems when creating
> your design. A lot of this work has been done many times before, so
> there is a lot to learn from.
>
> Your selected frequencies are harmonics of each other, meaning nonlinear
> distortion will make detection more difficult. The Bell 202 and similar
> modem standards chose AFSK frequencies to minimize interference.
>
> Repeating a message multiple times is a very inefficient method of error
> recovery. It works, but there may be better techniques, such as trellis
> modulation or other convolutional codes.
>
> Defining channel models to simulate your various use cases will help a
> lot to determine if you have met your requirements.
>
> - Thomas
>
> P.S. I also briefly considered audio to exchange transactions with a
> hardware wallet. Using GNU Radio made the implementation much easier.
>
> On 08/09/2016 04:06 PM, Daniel Hoffman via bitcoin-dev wrote:
> > I have updated the GitHub a lot (changed tones to be less chirpy, fixed
> > some smalls) and made a couple of samples (see attachment for MP3 and
> > FLAC of both tone tables, first 16 then 4). Is this good enough to
> > warrant an official BIP number? I haven't built a decoder yet, but it
> > seems like the encoder is working properly (looked at Audacity, seems
> > like it is working), and some people on reddit want to "allow for
> > decoding experiments"
> > <https://www.reddit.com/r/btc/comments/4wsn7v/bip_proposal_
> addresses_over_audio_thoughts/d69m3st>
> >
> > What suggestions do you all have for it?
> >
> > On Mon, Aug 8, 2016 at 8:50 PM, Daniel Hoffman
> > <danielhoffman699 at gmail.com <mailto:danielhoffman699 at gmail.com>> wrote:
> >
> > It wouldn't be feasible in the vast majority of cases, but I can't
> > think of a reason why it can't be built into the standard.
> >
> > On Mon, Aug 8, 2016 at 5:59 PM, Trevin Hofmann via bitcoin-dev
> > <bitcoin-dev at lists.linuxfoundation.org
> > <mailto:bitcoin-dev at lists.linuxfoundation.org>> wrote:
> >
> > Would it be feasible to transmit an entire BIP21 URI as audio?
> > If you were to encode any extra information (such as amount), it
> > would be useful to include a checksum for the entire message.
> > This checksum could possibly be used instead of the checksum in
> > the address.
> >
> > Trevin
> >
> >
> > On Aug 8, 2016 3:06 PM, "Justin Newton via bitcoin-dev"
> > <bitcoin-dev at lists.linuxfoundation.org
> > <mailto:bitcoin-dev at lists.linuxfoundation.org>> wrote:
> >
> > Daniel,
> > Thanks for proposing this. I think this could have some
> > useful use cases as you state. I was wondering what you
> > would think to adding some additional tones to optionally
> > denote an amount (in satoshis?).
> >
> > (FYI, actual link is here: https://github.com/Dako300/BIP
> > <https://github.com/Dako300/BIP> )
> >
> > Justin
> >
> > On Mon, Aug 8, 2016 at 2:22 PM, Daniel Hoffman via
> > bitcoin-dev <bitcoin-dev at lists.linuxfoundation.org
> > <mailto:bitcoin-dev at lists.linuxfoundation.org>> wrote:
> >
> > This is my BIP idea: a fast, robust, and standardized
> > for representing Bitcoin addresses over audio. It takes
> > the binary representation of the Bitcoin address (little
> > endian), chops that up into 4 or 2 bit chunks (depending
> > on type, 2 bit only for low quality audio like american
> > telephone lines), and generates a tone based upon that
> > value. This started because I wanted an easy way to
> > donate to podcasts that I listen to, and having a
> > Shazam-esque app (or a media player with this
> > capability) that gives me an address automatically would
> > be wonderful for both the consumer and producer. Comes
> > with error correction built into the protocol
> >
> > You can see the full specification of the BIP on my
> > GitHub page (https://github.com/Dako300/BIP-0153
> > <https://github.com/Dako300/BIP-0153>).
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > bitcoin-dev mailing list
> > bitcoin-dev at lists.linuxfoundation.org
> > <mailto:bitcoin-dev at lists.linuxfoundation.org>
> > https://lists.linuxfoundation.
> org/mailman/listinfo/bitcoin-dev
> > <https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/
> listinfo/bitcoin-dev>
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> >
> > Justin W. Newton
> > Founder/CEO
> > Netki, Inc.
> >
> > justin at netki.com <mailto:justin at netki.com>
> > +1.818.261.4248 <tel:+1.818.261.4248>
> >
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > bitcoin-dev mailing list
> > bitcoin-dev at lists.linuxfoundation.org
> > <mailto:bitcoin-dev at lists.linuxfoundation.org>
> > https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/bitcoin-
> dev
> > <https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/
> listinfo/bitcoin-dev>
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > bitcoin-dev mailing list
> > bitcoin-dev at lists.linuxfoundation.org
> > <mailto:bitcoin-dev at lists.linuxfoundation.org>
> > https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/bitcoin-dev
> > <https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/bitcoin-dev>
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > bitcoin-dev mailing list
> > bitcoin-dev at lists.linuxfoundation.org
> > https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/bitcoin-dev
> >
> _______________________________________________
> bitcoin-dev mailing list
> bitcoin-dev at lists.linuxfoundation.org
> https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/bitcoin-dev
>
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2023-06-07 17:52:32

- reply

📅 Original date posted:2016-08-09
📝 Original message:I have updated the GitHub a lot (changed tones to be less chirpy, fixed
some smalls) and made a couple of samples (see attachment for MP3 and FLAC
of both tone tables, first 16 then 4). Is this good enough to warrant an
official BIP number? I haven't built a decoder yet, but it seems like the
encoder is working properly (looked at Audacity, seems like it is working),
and some people on reddit want to "allow for decoding experiments"
<https://www.reddit.com/r/btc/comments/4wsn7v/bip_proposal_addresses_over_audio_thoughts/d69m3st>
What suggestions do you all have for it?
On Mon, Aug 8, 2016 at 8:50 PM, Daniel Hoffman <danielhoffman699 at gmail.com>
wrote:
> It wouldn't be feasible in the vast majority of cases, but I can't think
> of a reason why it can't be built into the standard.
>
> On Mon, Aug 8, 2016 at 5:59 PM, Trevin Hofmann via bitcoin-dev <
> bitcoin-dev at lists.linuxfoundation.org> wrote:
>
>> Would it be feasible to transmit an entire BIP21 URI as audio? If you
>> were to encode any extra information (such as amount), it would be useful
>> to include a checksum for the entire message. This checksum could possibly
>> be used instead of the checksum in the address.
>>
>> Trevin
>>
>> On Aug 8, 2016 3:06 PM, "Justin Newton via bitcoin-dev" <
>> bitcoin-dev at lists.linuxfoundation.org> wrote:
>>
>>> Daniel,
>>> Thanks for proposing this. I think this could have some useful use
>>> cases as you state. I was wondering what you would think to adding some
>>> additional tones to optionally denote an amount (in satoshis?).
>>>
>>> (FYI, actual link is here: https://github.com/Dako300/BIP )
>>>
>>> Justin
>>>
>>> On Mon, Aug 8, 2016 at 2:22 PM, Daniel Hoffman via bitcoin-dev <
>>> bitcoin-dev at lists.linuxfoundation.org> wrote:
>>>
>>>> This is my BIP idea: a fast, robust, and standardized for representing
>>>> Bitcoin addresses over audio. It takes the binary representation of the
>>>> Bitcoin address (little endian), chops that up into 4 or 2 bit chunks
>>>> (depending on type, 2 bit only for low quality audio like american
>>>> telephone lines), and generates a tone based upon that value. This started
>>>> because I wanted an easy way to donate to podcasts that I listen to, and
>>>> having a Shazam-esque app (or a media player with this capability) that
>>>> gives me an address automatically would be wonderful for both the consumer
>>>> and producer. Comes with error correction built into the protocol
>>>>
>>>> You can see the full specification of the BIP on my GitHub page (
>>>> https://github.com/Dako300/BIP-0153).
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> bitcoin-dev mailing list
>>>> bitcoin-dev at lists.linuxfoundation.org
>>>> https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/bitcoin-dev
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>>
>>> Justin W. Newton
>>> Founder/CEO
>>> Netki, Inc.
>>>
>>> justin at netki.com
>>> +1.818.261.4248
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> bitcoin-dev mailing list
>>> bitcoin-dev at lists.linuxfoundation.org
>>> https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/bitcoin-dev
>>>
>>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> bitcoin-dev mailing list
>> bitcoin-dev at lists.linuxfoundation.org
>> https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/bitcoin-dev
>>
>>
>
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2023-06-07 17:52:31

- reply

📅 Original date posted:2016-08-08
📝 Original message:It wouldn't be feasible in the vast majority of cases, but I can't think of
a reason why it can't be built into the standard.
On Mon, Aug 8, 2016 at 5:59 PM, Trevin Hofmann via bitcoin-dev <
bitcoin-dev at lists.linuxfoundation.org> wrote:
> Would it be feasible to transmit an entire BIP21 URI as audio? If you were
> to encode any extra information (such as amount), it would be useful to
> include a checksum for the entire message. This checksum could possibly be
> used instead of the checksum in the address.
>
> Trevin
>
> On Aug 8, 2016 3:06 PM, "Justin Newton via bitcoin-dev" <
> bitcoin-dev at lists.linuxfoundation.org> wrote:
>
>> Daniel,
>> Thanks for proposing this. I think this could have some useful use
>> cases as you state. I was wondering what you would think to adding some
>> additional tones to optionally denote an amount (in satoshis?).
>>
>> (FYI, actual link is here: https://github.com/Dako300/BIP )
>>
>> Justin
>>
>> On Mon, Aug 8, 2016 at 2:22 PM, Daniel Hoffman via bitcoin-dev <
>> bitcoin-dev at lists.linuxfoundation.org> wrote:
>>
>>> This is my BIP idea: a fast, robust, and standardized for representing
>>> Bitcoin addresses over audio. It takes the binary representation of the
>>> Bitcoin address (little endian), chops that up into 4 or 2 bit chunks
>>> (depending on type, 2 bit only for low quality audio like american
>>> telephone lines), and generates a tone based upon that value. This started
>>> because I wanted an easy way to donate to podcasts that I listen to, and
>>> having a Shazam-esque app (or a media player with this capability) that
>>> gives me an address automatically would be wonderful for both the consumer
>>> and producer. Comes with error correction built into the protocol
>>>
>>> You can see the full specification of the BIP on my GitHub page (
>>> https://github.com/Dako300/BIP-0153).
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> bitcoin-dev mailing list
>>> bitcoin-dev at lists.linuxfoundation.org
>>> https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/bitcoin-dev
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>>
>> Justin W. Newton
>> Founder/CEO
>> Netki, Inc.
>>
>> justin at netki.com
>> +1.818.261.4248
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> bitcoin-dev mailing list
>> bitcoin-dev at lists.linuxfoundation.org
>> https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/bitcoin-dev
>>
>>
> _______________________________________________
> bitcoin-dev mailing list
> bitcoin-dev at lists.linuxfoundation.org
> https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/bitcoin-dev
>
>
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2023-06-07 17:52:31

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📅 Original date posted:2016-08-08
📝 Original message:I wouldn't worry about payment requests until I built a decoder and made
the transmission a lot faster (probably adding tones and making it 5 bits
wide), which shouldn't be hard
On Mon, Aug 8, 2016 at 5:06 PM, Justin Newton via bitcoin-dev <
bitcoin-dev at lists.linuxfoundation.org> wrote:
> Daniel,
> Thanks for proposing this. I think this could have some useful use
> cases as you state. I was wondering what you would think to adding some
> additional tones to optionally denote an amount (in satoshis?).
>
> (FYI, actual link is here: https://github.com/Dako300/BIP )
>
> Justin
>
> On Mon, Aug 8, 2016 at 2:22 PM, Daniel Hoffman via bitcoin-dev <
> bitcoin-dev at lists.linuxfoundation.org> wrote:
>
>> This is my BIP idea: a fast, robust, and standardized for representing
>> Bitcoin addresses over audio. It takes the binary representation of the
>> Bitcoin address (little endian), chops that up into 4 or 2 bit chunks
>> (depending on type, 2 bit only for low quality audio like american
>> telephone lines), and generates a tone based upon that value. This started
>> because I wanted an easy way to donate to podcasts that I listen to, and
>> having a Shazam-esque app (or a media player with this capability) that
>> gives me an address automatically would be wonderful for both the consumer
>> and producer. Comes with error correction built into the protocol
>>
>> You can see the full specification of the BIP on my GitHub page (
>> https://github.com/Dako300/BIP-0153).
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> bitcoin-dev mailing list
>> bitcoin-dev at lists.linuxfoundation.org
>> https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/bitcoin-dev
>>
>>
>
>
> --
>
> Justin W. Newton
> Founder/CEO
> Netki, Inc.
>
> justin at netki.com
> +1.818.261.4248
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> bitcoin-dev mailing list
> bitcoin-dev at lists.linuxfoundation.org
> https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/bitcoin-dev
>
>
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2023-06-07 17:52:30

- reply

📅 Original date posted:2016-08-08
📝 Original message:This is my BIP idea: a fast, robust, and standardized for representing
Bitcoin addresses over audio. It takes the binary representation of the
Bitcoin address (little endian), chops that up into 4 or 2 bit chunks
(depending on type, 2 bit only for low quality audio like american
telephone lines), and generates a tone based upon that value. This started
because I wanted an easy way to donate to podcasts that I listen to, and
having a Shazam-esque app (or a media player with this capability) that
gives me an address automatically would be wonderful for both the consumer
and producer. Comes with error correction built into the protocol
You can see the full specification of the BIP on my GitHub page (
https://github.com/Dako300/BIP-0153).
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