Blockchain Group [ARCHIVE] / is on Nostr

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🗓️ Active from 2018-08-26 to 2018-08-30
💬 Posted a total of 6 messages
📚 Participated in the following categories: bitcoin-dev
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2023-06-07 18:14:14

- reply

📅 Original date posted:2018-08-29
📝 Original message:Awesome, thanks for the information. I will work on it and keep it in mind.
On Wed, Aug 29, 2018, 11:57 PM Jonas Schnelli <dev at jonasschnelli.ch> wrote:
>
> > The API implementation is not what is centralizing, nor is full
> indexation non-scalable. The centralization is in not running the API from
> a node under your own control. This is of course implied by the comment,
> “without the need for syncing”. In other words it is the deployment cost of
> the node that is centralizing.
>
> IMO an API that serves non verifiable data is supporting centralised
> validation. The „API" which supports one of the most important properties
> in Bitcoin – the ability to self-validate – is the data available via the
> p2p network.
>
> >
> > Yet if people relied only on bitcoind and never centralized services
> there would be *no* block explorers (and no secure light wallets), because
> it does not provide remote query and does not fully index.
> >
> > Block explorers and light wallets are pretty useful, so presumably some
> API must provide these features (ideally with reduced deployment cost).
> That will either be centralized or decentralized services. As such it seems
> wise to encourage the latter, as opposed to questioning whether there is
> any valid block explorer use case.
>
> Bitcoin-Core has all required features to partially „index“ data (called
> the wallet) and provides them via the RPC API. If you don’t need to serve
> thousands of wallets (which smells after centralised validation), selective
> indexing (wallets) are the right choice. Also, if you have a proper light
> client architecture, you can use Bitcoin Core in pruned mode (<10GB of
> data) to serve an endless amount of wallets (client/server mode, I guess
> that is what you are referring to with "light clients").
>
> I fail to see the use-cases where a fully index blockchain makes sense
> (the only one I can come up with is instant backup recovery where the
> transaction history needs to be preserved rather then recovering the UTXOs
> only).
>
> Also, the p2p protocol has built in light client support with BIP37 (bloom
> filters) and soon BIP158 will be available on the network which does allow
> privacy-preserving "light clients" in a way where no trusted layer is
> required (client <-> p2p network rather then client <-> API provider <->
> p2p network).
>
> I don’t want to advocate against a full-index blockexplorer-like API. I
> just think its important to define the use case and be aware of the
> consequences and downsides.
>
> /jonas
>
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2023-06-07 18:14:14

- reply

📅 Original date posted:2018-08-30
📝 Original message:Thanks, I'll check it out.
On Thu, Aug 30, 2018, 3:33 PM Aymeric Vitte <vitteaymeric at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
> Le 28/08/2018 à 20:36, Jonas Schnelli via bitcoin-dev a écrit :
> > I’d like to hear some concrete use-cases for a such block explorer(ish)
> API.
>
> https://github.com/Ayms/bitcoin-transactions which is somewhere
> bitcoin-cli outside of bitcoin core with no wallet, which implies that
> you don't want to mix/provide your wallet with/to the app creating your
> transactions and/or you don't want to use wallet sw
>
> Problem: quasi nobody succeeds to use it (and probably this trend is
> unlikely to revert), that's why there is https://peersm.com/wallet which
> is querying the info outside and output the right command to use with
> the tool (or output the transaction if people put their keys, which is
> of course not advised unless they are sure that the corresponding
> addresses are dead ones)
>
> It is planned to put the app for the advanced mode (ie people must know
> all the parameters) as an offline one inside browsers, then back to the
> above problem...
>
> So probably the offline mode should include a phase where the tool
> connects to some APIs/explorers like the one suggested here before
> switching to the offline mode to enter the keys, this will always be not
> very secure for the query phase unless it can become something
> decentralized (and usable the same way on different networks), which as
> far as I understand is envisioned here
>
> --
> Bitcoin transactions made simple:
> https://github.com/Ayms/bitcoin-transactions
> Zcash wallets made simple: https://github.com/Ayms/zcash-wallets
> Bitcoin wallets made simple: https://github.com/Ayms/bitcoin-wallets
> Get the torrent dynamic blocklist: http://peersm.com/getblocklist
> Check the 10 M passwords list: http://peersm.com/findmyass
> Anti-spies and private torrents, dynamic blocklist:
> http://torrent-live.org
> Peersm : http://www.peersm.com
> torrent-live: https://github.com/Ayms/torrent-live
> node-Tor : https://www.github.com/Ayms/node-Tor
> GitHub : https://www.github.com/Ayms
>
>
>
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2023-06-07 18:14:13

- reply

📅 Original date posted:2018-08-29
📝 Original message:Thanks, I'll check it out.
On Wed, Aug 29, 2018, 12:06 AM Jonas Schnelli <dev at jonasschnelli.ch> wrote:
> Hi
>
> To give a critical viewpoint on a such API:
>
> Such APIs usually result in central validation, meaning that users trust
> API services rather the validating their own data. It break some of the
> fundamental properties of Bitcoin (avoid trusted third parties).
> Systems or applications depending on a full indexed blockchain (a thus
> such API) do usually scale pretty bad.
>
> I’d like to hear some concrete use-cases for a such block explorer(ish)
> API.
>
> Thanks
> —
> Jonas
>
> > Am 26.08.2018 um 21:58 schrieb Blockchain Group via bitcoin-dev <
> bitcoin-dev at lists.linuxfoundation.org>:
> >
> > Hello everyone,
> >
> > I am C++ & Node.js developer. I want to propose making a new Bitcoin API
> that supports fast quering of Bitcoin blocks and transactions without the
> need for syncing with all previous nodes.
> >
> > In a typical case where I want to build a full fleged Bitcoin explorer
> cum wallet system on my end with external APIs, I need to sync my node and
> then query for the information I need to show separately. I am proposing a
> unified method of finding/quering the blockchain data with a standardized
> template containing minimal information about the actual mined block or
> transaction yet satify the need of what I want to query.
> >
> > I am working on making a template and a support mechanism on Node.js. I
> want to propose it as an improvement (BIP). It will be a great help to
> future web developers who want to make something similar.
> >
> > Thanks
> > Sumit Lahiri.
> > _______________________________________________
> > bitcoin-dev mailing list
> > bitcoin-dev at lists.linuxfoundation.org
> > https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/bitcoin-dev
>
>
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2023-06-07 18:14:13

- reply

📅 Original date posted:2018-08-29
📝 Original message:Thanks! That is what my main point is.
On Wed, Aug 29, 2018, 8:10 PM Eric Voskuil <eric at voskuil.org> wrote:
> The API implementation is not what is centralizing, nor is full indexation
> non-scalable. The centralization is in not running the API from a node
> under your own control. This is of course implied by the comment, “without
> the need for syncing”. In other words it is the deployment cost of the node
> that is centralizing.
>
> Yet if people relied only on bitcoind and never centralized services there
> would be *no* block explorers (and no secure light wallets), because it
> does not provide remote query and does not fully index.
>
> Block explorers and light wallets are pretty useful, so presumably some
> API must provide these features (ideally with reduced deployment cost).
> That will either be centralized or decentralized services. As such it seems
> wise to encourage the latter, as opposed to questioning whether there is
> any valid block explorer use case.
>
> e
>
>
> > On Aug 28, 2018, at 11:36, Jonas Schnelli via bitcoin-dev <
> bitcoin-dev at lists.linuxfoundation.org> wrote:
> >
> > Hi
> >
> > To give a critical viewpoint on a such API:
> >
> > Such APIs usually result in central validation, meaning that users trust
> API services rather the validating their own data. It break some of the
> fundamental properties of Bitcoin (avoid trusted third parties).
> > Systems or applications depending on a full indexed blockchain (a thus
> such API) do usually scale pretty bad.
> >
> > I’d like to hear some concrete use-cases for a such block explorer(ish)
> API.
> >
> > Thanks
> > —
> > Jonas
> >
> >> Am 26.08.2018 um 21:58 schrieb Blockchain Group via bitcoin-dev <
> bitcoin-dev at lists.linuxfoundation.org>:
> >>
> >> Hello everyone,
> >>
> >> I am C++ & Node.js developer. I want to propose making a new Bitcoin
> API that supports fast quering of Bitcoin blocks and transactions without
> the need for syncing with all previous nodes.
> >>
> >> In a typical case where I want to build a full fleged Bitcoin explorer
> cum wallet system on my end with external APIs, I need to sync my node and
> then query for the information I need to show separately. I am proposing a
> unified method of finding/quering the blockchain data with a standardized
> template containing minimal information about the actual mined block or
> transaction yet satify the need of what I want to query.
> >>
> >> I am working on making a template and a support mechanism on Node.js. I
> want to propose it as an improvement (BIP). It will be a great help to
> future web developers who want to make something similar.
> >>
> >> Thanks
> >> Sumit Lahiri.
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> bitcoin-dev mailing list
> >> bitcoin-dev at lists.linuxfoundation.org
> >> https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/bitcoin-dev
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > bitcoin-dev mailing list
> > bitcoin-dev at lists.linuxfoundation.org
> > https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/bitcoin-dev
>
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2023-06-07 18:14:12

- reply

📅 Original date posted:2018-08-28
📝 Original message:Thanks, I'll check it out.
On Tue, Aug 28, 2018, 9:17 PM Matias Alejo Garcia <ematiu at gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi Sumit,
>
> Take a look at https://github.com/bitpay/bitcore/tree/v8.0.0, it is a
> bitcoin indexing API server, with several modules, like a block explorer, a
> wallet module, etc. It is built using Node.js.
>
> matías
>
> On Tue, Aug 28, 2018 at 12:43 PM Joseph Gleason ⑈ via bitcoin-dev <
> bitcoin-dev at lists.linuxfoundation.org> wrote:
>
>> For what it is worth, electrum has a lot or possibly all of what you are
>> talking about since the electrum servers are designed to quickly answer the
>> queries of light clients. So right now, you could sync up an electrum
>> server or use an existing public one and send queries to it with json-rpc.
>>
>>
>> https://github.com/kyuupichan/electrumx/blob/master/docs/protocol-methods.rst
>>
>>
>> On Tue, Aug 28, 2018 at 5:36 AM Blockchain Group via bitcoin-dev <
>> bitcoin-dev at lists.linuxfoundation.org> wrote:
>>
>>> Hello everyone,
>>>
>>> I am C++ & Node.js developer. I want to propose making a new Bitcoin API
>>> that supports fast quering of Bitcoin blocks and transactions without the
>>> need for syncing with all previous nodes.
>>>
>>> In a typical case where I want to build a full fleged Bitcoin explorer
>>> cum wallet system on my end with external APIs, I need to sync my node and
>>> then query for the information I need to show separately. I am proposing a
>>> unified method of finding/quering the blockchain data with a standardized
>>> template containing minimal information about the actual mined block or
>>> transaction yet satify the need of what I want to query.
>>>
>>> I am working on making a template and a support mechanism on Node.js. I
>>> want to propose it as an improvement (BIP). It will be a great help to
>>> future web developers who want to make something similar.
>>>
>>> Thanks
>>> Sumit Lahiri.
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> bitcoin-dev mailing list
>>> bitcoin-dev at lists.linuxfoundation.org
>>> https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/bitcoin-dev
>>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> bitcoin-dev mailing list
>> bitcoin-dev at lists.linuxfoundation.org
>> https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/bitcoin-dev
>>
>
>
> --
> Matías Alejo Garcia
> @ematiu
> Roads? Where we're going, we don't need roads!
>
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2023-06-07 18:14:11

- reply

📅 Original date posted:2018-08-26
📝 Original message:Hello everyone,
I am C++ & Node.js developer. I want to propose making a new Bitcoin API
that supports fast quering of Bitcoin blocks and transactions without the
need for syncing with all previous nodes.
In a typical case where I want to build a full fleged Bitcoin explorer cum
wallet system on my end with external APIs, I need to sync my node and then
query for the information I need to show separately. I am proposing a
unified method of finding/quering the blockchain data with a standardized
template containing minimal information about the actual mined block or
transaction yet satify the need of what I want to query.
I am working on making a template and a support mechanism on Node.js. I
want to propose it as an improvement (BIP). It will be a great help to
future web developers who want to make something similar.
Thanks
Sumit Lahiri.
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