protocolSociety

Here to share with you a vision of the present projected into the future.

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npub1742ywjvwsqe8dmdfkv2y4d6l4u0l6yxcsdydtxje0axzp5zf3drseg93dp

Profile Code

nprofile1qqs024z8fx8gqvnkak5mx9z2ka0678lazrvgxjx4nfvh7npq6pyck3cd3wpha

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npub1742ywjvwsqe8dmdfkv2y4d6l4u0l6yxcsdydtxje0axzp5zf3drseg93dp

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Last Notes

2024-10-22 14:02:47

mind blown
#note1gmx…9qrj

2024-10-20 16:07:38

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Everyone should (be able to) have their own algo. Everyone should (be able to) run their own relay. Everyone should help out censoring garbage. No-one should be able to censor everything.

2024-10-20 14:36:37

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I have ideas about how to use WoT to sort Nostr content: https://github.com/baumbit/peercuration and create open communities https://github.com/baumbit/opengroup.

2024-10-03 07:43:56

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code review of bitcoin projects or buying coins would be more productive.

2024-09-23 19:13:57

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nice! ive ben working on something similar: https://github.com/baumbit/opengroup?tab=readme-ov-file#tldr very powerful when combined with https://github.com/baumbit/peercuration?tab=readme-ov-file#peercuration

2024-09-21 19:14:48

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sjors, i made a network similar to Nostr before nostr officially existed… i solved things differently. “relays” were in my design merely topographical bridges to prevent network partitioning. the concept of a thread breaks down when one realizes that the best way of protecting against spam, is to embrace p2p to the fullest extent of it. https://github.com/baumbit/treebit?tab=readme-ov-file#how-is-the-information-propagated

2024-09-21 13:56:40

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#peercuration and #opengroups in the public domain for several years now…

2024-09-19 05:25:40

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Your relay should filter on your web-of-trust aka social graph, using #opengroups #peercuration. Spam on #nostr will only get worse… white/black listing wont work, pay to propagate wont work… sooner or later devs will impl crowd curation.

2024-09-09 19:05:53

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#peercuration will

2024-09-08 18:36:00

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next step use to do the same with filtering the content…. life is not a shoutbox where everyone can scream in you ear at anytime, but #nostr is. let’s stop that and bring in the social graph to curate the content #peercuration

2024-09-08 18:31:20

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why not simply down prioritize them using WoT? people you follow could get higher, and people they follow also somewhat higher. and users blocked by people you follow, etc… u get the picture…… they get lower priority #peercuration

2024-09-08 15:46:49

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Yes, this is basically my ”node as a Hotel” idea I had a few years ago (#treebit)… next step is to make crowd based sorting and propagation (#peercuration) and then we’ve got decentralized relays, which enables easy to onboard new users.

2024-09-06 18:59:11

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if the people you follow have marked the post as spam, odds increase it is and you can down prioritize it #peercuration

2024-09-05 19:12:18

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Ive written about how we can fight spam and decentralice relays using #peercuration https://github.com/baumbit/peercuration?tab=readme-ov-file#peercuration and #opengroups https://github.com/baumbit/opengroup?tab=readme-ov-file#tldr

2024-09-05 06:15:13

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DIY hardware stack FTW

2024-09-04 15:17:35

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sometimes people are wrong with evil intent. in those instances, dont trust verify, saves time.

2024-09-03 04:30:23

He gets it.
#note14qw…xfv2

2024-09-02 19:25:13

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Abundance fuels innovation! More people with food and housing secured, have time to study and learn… imagine how many Einsteins had to plow the dirt. Scarcity suck.

2024-09-02 18:36:43

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bad idea. let legs rest between workouts to increase muscle growth.

2024-09-02 17:10:29

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More people discovered basically the same thing on their own. I did, people I spoke to had same kind of thoughts… I even spent time coding it…. simply put it was an idea whos time had come: https://github.com/baumbit/treebit

2024-09-02 17:06:53

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Indeed they did make a mistake there. The proper way is to modularize it further.

2024-09-02 15:56:17

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Id argue that the Note scheme is the product. Most of the rest is only transport layer and doesn’t really scale yet.

2024-09-02 15:54:54

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Can you believe I invented this before Nostr even existed? I programmed the whole shebang and uploaded it here: https://github.com/baumbit/treebit Hopefully one day #peercuration will be integrated into Nostr.

2024-09-02 15:27:11

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the ask yourself
what is valuable for others?
together we do #peercuration https://github.com/baumbit/peercuration?tab=readme-ov-file#peercuration and solve both the spam problem AND decentralize the relays.

2024-09-02 15:15:26

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I would love to see these kinds of “filter / sorting / curation” algos be scriptable, so that people can experiment, open different tabs with different algos, and play around to see what yeilds good result #FOSS

2024-09-02 15:03:26

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Simple centralized solution… imagine if all of us do this, all of the time, in the background… #peercuration a spam protection modeled after how real life social graphs works.

2024-09-02 15:01:18

Guy is surfing the bleeding edge here. I DM #primal with this feature request: “Feature Request: Your relay could create “crowd curated feeds” using public Nostr data. By combining a users follow list with the followed users followed list and combine it with Zaps and Likes, you can create feeds and “reply trees” with super high quality.”
#note19hy…jcsx

2024-09-02 14:57:58

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We can leverage the web of trust by creating a crowd based decentralized sorting function called #peercuration A bonus it that it will help solve the issue with centralized relays: https://github.com/baumbit/peercuration?tab=readme-ov-file#peercuration

2024-09-02 14:56:19

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I know you read it before, but maybe if you read it again maybe it will click at a deeper level? We can fight back using #peercuration https://github.com/baumbit/peercuration?tab=readme-ov-file#peercuration

2024-09-01 18:22:11

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this is why #perrcuration will work. its how we function in normal everyday life.

2024-09-01 05:07:32

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Believing in doG is irrational.

2024-08-31 13:59:14

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The transport layer in Nostr is just a taxi to the party.
Take the taxi, take the train, what ever turns you on… mathematical constructs doesn’t moralize.

2024-08-31 13:53:53

The reason hierarchical control structures tend to devolve into control by force, is that it is an inherently unstable graph with clear competitive vector. Basically people digging their own tombs in an upside down pyramid, shedding their soul and the lackluster shade of heavy red stones.

2024-08-31 02:19:36

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If people do bad stuff on internet and use you as exit node, you might be investigated. Similar to TOR exit nodes and VPN…

2024-08-30 20:40:35

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Just remember that you do _not_ want to be someone else exit node without fully grokkin the risks.

2024-08-30 20:38:17

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Nostr doesnt solve this, because Nostr isnt p2p, its not onion routed and the incentivesXcost of running relays is not proper.
Its fixable, but then dev needs to wake up.

2024-08-30 20:36:42

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Nostr does not solve this.

2024-08-30 15:17:34

Lets modularize the transport/content, and create content that can be used on many social media! We could do it for user profiles and notes… I mean… JPEG proved it possible :-D
#note1974…938s

2024-08-30 15:14:24

Pear/Keet is confused about the transport layer and the content packaging.
#note1kkr…te7r

2024-08-30 15:03:02

#Nostr is confused about the transport protocol and the data packaging. These are two different things. One is a propagation/messaging protocol the other more of a schema for data. #few

2024-08-30 08:32:53

(Nostr eating the world, lets decentralize all social graphs) LinkedIn is a website that leverages peoples trust and reputation. Basically its Web-of-Trust (#WoT) on a centralized server. #Nostr is also a foundational piece of WoT and I think it could be used to create a decentralized alternative to LinkedIn.

2024-08-29 17:25:57

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Thanks! I tool a brief look at the Nostr code and believe basically all of my ideas are applicable and can be implemented without any changes to the Nostr protocol. Could even be done using a proof-of-concept “peercuration”-relay. @npub12vk…pugg could for instance do it.

2024-08-29 03:56:04

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Great observation. By leveraging common interests and high quality of peers, we can mitigate spam AND accidentally we also fixed the “decentralized the relays” problem. I outlined part of the solution here: https://github.com/baumbit/peercuration?tab=readme-ov-file#peercuration

2024-08-28 17:04:50

#Nostr should integrate #Keet for group chats, streaming radio… Pear should embrace Nostr user profiles. “One privkey to rule them all”. Protocols should not diverge, they should solve different problems and be used together. You never build a house using only a hammer.

2024-08-28 16:58:40

sometimes best defense is offense
#note1zkk…44z8

2024-08-28 16:57:49

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its because they dont know how to fix it. I have a proposal for how to fix it, but no one believe in me lol.. (not 100% true because giacomo has vetted my idea and think its worth testing).
check out my profile/notes and IF you think there is something to it, you can use ur status as influencer to help get attention.

2024-08-28 06:02:54

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Pear is using censorship/moderation in chats. Its not public. Its both a feature and a bug. Different use-cases. I love both Nostr and Pear, but they cant replace eachother.

2024-08-28 05:59:27

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Yes! “But will everyone store all content?” Nope… we will use #peercuration

2024-08-28 05:57:12

Here is someone who gets it! Make nodes, not war.
#note1qat…we2z

2024-08-28 04:27:28

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Nostr needs an upgrade for it to happen though… the hub n spoke topology can be improved upon. #peercuration

2024-08-28 04:20:53

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DIY hardware. Maybe not next. Maybe not low hanging fruit. But if you don’t control your own hardware, someone else does. 3D printed circuitry is a given. First for key management, networking, display, etc. Technology has to advance for it to be possible though.

2024-08-27 18:47:00

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Hm… why do you believe that posts that user finds value in, would get lower attention compared to posts (clickbait, etc) that user finds less value in?
Me personally I would neither like, nor zap and probably click delete on clickbait-shit-posts… and my peers wouldnt get that spam from me.
Users/peers sending me that type of spam I would block or at least downgrade.
If I find users that behave the same, and we help curate the content, why would we get more clickbate/spam?

2024-08-27 18:31:13

Make protocols not platforms.

2024-08-27 08:27:22

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Good observations.
I believe everyone who can, should run their own relay (preferably wrapped as an onion hidden service) and store their own content, to ensure it’s not dropped by the network. If other relays also stores it, then even so much better… but they cant be 100% trusted. Your own relay cant be trusted either (it could break) but you could also store a backup of the content on your hard-drive and re-publish / re-upload, if needed.
We cant expect everyone to run a relay and its likely that content that people find less worthy of saving will be discarded, hence the network is destines to forget some content.

2024-08-27 08:20:19

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Great feedback and I like the idea of tactile scoring (drag finger).
I agree that we cant expect a user to score all content the user come across. Id argue that this is a feature and not a bug. If the user don’t score some content but score other content, then the scored content is automatically more worthy of attention. One could think of the score not of as a bad/good but as a low/high attention value. SPAM would simply get zero score, because it doesn’t even have negative value… it’s just some sort of nothing-noise.

2024-08-27 04:17:43

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I believe it’s best if the scoring is “hidden”. Like, repost, content age, zaps, comment, times viewed, bookmarked, etc., are all actions that indicate that a user found a note worthy of attention. Its possible to imagine also other means of scoring such as downvote/upvote, etc.

2024-08-26 20:22:28

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I agree with your opinion! Very important observation.
And to answer your question: Yes it perfectly suited for the kind of curation you mentioned. I went further… while my proof-of-concept has a suggested default content filtering; the hope is that users would design their own filtering algos using the basic primitives: #opengroups #peercuration #hashscore #tags and I left it open so that more such primitives could be invented and integrated. Instead of a “global content consensus” protocol I made a “local normative” protocol model. Not opinionated. Designed to be re-redesigned. #treebit could have bridges to other networks such as Nostr.

2024-08-26 19:20:26

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information technologies doesn’t have intrinsic properties.
everything you see in this virtual world, is human imagination crystalized into structured energy flow.
the shape of the #protocolSociety is the shape of the best of incentives playing out

2024-08-26 19:13:27

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And no… paying a small sat fee won’t help here.

2024-08-26 19:12:40

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Nostr relays are on the shoppin block. Two ways to go: censor notes or goto prison. Is there a 3 way? Yes there is, but people don’t understand because “decentralizing relays” is apparently an IQ test.

2024-08-26 17:37:46

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Would love to hear your idea! In case you didn’t see my other post, this is my solution https://github.com/baumbit/peercuration?tab=readme-ov-file#peercuration
I did it several years ago, before Nostr existed (in public at least) so I created it for #treebit (a network similar to Nostr, but with spam protection and fully decentralized).

2024-08-26 17:33:11

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Yes. This.
I already solved the decentralization of relays, when when I designed #treebit and it all is based on #peercuration https://github.com/baumbit/peercuration?tab=readme-ov-file#peercuration

2024-08-26 17:31:13

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We will all run relays and they will be called nodes. Relays will serve as bridges between network clusters. And content will be filtered by the crowd.
This is #peercuration https://github.com/baumbit/peercuration?tab=readme-ov-file#peercuration

2024-08-26 17:28:46

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#opengroups https://github.com/baumbit/opengroup?tab=readme-ov-file#opengroup

2024-08-26 17:27:39

If I follow 3 different profiles, these 3 could be added to a group. If these 3 profiles also follow me, we could create a public group conversation on Nostr. We could even use a tag “3plebsTalk”… Other people who wants to join in, can clone this group. #opengroups
Open because everyone can join, no one can censor, no one can force their way into it. Zero aggression. 100% about whether other people think you add value or not.
Bad behavior is discouraged by not getting attention, good behavior is incentivized by getting attention.
What is good/bad behavior? If you find likeminded people, you already have a like minded opinion of that.
#protocolSociety … this is the way

2024-08-26 17:21:04

I want to be able to tag and score the people I follow on Nostr. I also want to group them into #opengroups This way @npub12vk…pugg would be able to render my notes feed depending on which tags Im interested in and prioritize which content to give real estate.
Several tabs could be offered, a tab for one or several tags. And tabs for a certain group of users.

2024-08-26 17:00:44

I don’t want your zaps and sats. Instead donate to yourself by realizing the #protocolSociety, open source it #FOSS and get the strength of the crowd on your side!
Remember, in a free world where protocols is the structure on which society condense and technology crystalize, the winning strategy, is the one where interaction benefits all involved.

2024-08-26 16:52:33

”We should be comfortable changing our minds as our inventories of values and knowledge change over time and as the world changes around us” - https://vinneycavallo.com/stances
This is an amazing insight! When I built #treebit, I imagined how every “note” a user posted could be accompanied by a very tiny “update” text, where the author could state whether (s)he had a change of mind or not.
In a system such as Nostr where no content can be verifiably be deleted, there needs to be a way for people to amend old content.
My idea was that users should feel encouraged to update their view of the world, yet we would be able to hold influencers to their promises and not let scammers get away.
Immutable track record (aka git blame) + change of heart (git commit) is how we build the #protocolSociety

2024-08-26 12:59:35

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he did not. orange was picked because it sticks out.

2024-08-26 11:47:40

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Not even TCP/IP is the protocol to rule them all. In the #protocolSociety, data is not(!) tied to the transport channel. Data is tied to mathematically derived keys. The protocols that add the most value to the most people and let us network using data unbounded by the message passing tech, will rein supreme.

2024-08-26 11:43:28

Should be popular opinion: “Pear and Nostr should enter into a symbiotic relationship”. https://pears.com

2024-08-26 11:40:17

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The node itself can be a hidden onion server (code on repo defaults to TOR), but data can really be transferred using what ever channel is available. You can even send content (nostr notes here) using USB-stick and someone else can publish it (same as Nostr).
I also invented “archive nodes” and “bridge nodes” which is basically what relays are in Nostr. This implies that indeed, we could implement #treebit on Nostr without actually making any big changes to Nostr.

2024-08-26 11:33:55

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A node connects to peers that it discovers. The peers have to compete for the available bandwidth. Those peers who offers the best content gets more bandwidth. Before downloading content, your node download scores for the content. Content is always identified using its hash. An average score is derived based on your own prefences (key words, WoT aka #opengroups, etc) and a download priority queue is created. Basically put, #treebit is not(!) a gossip protocol, not a distributed hashtable either. Its 100% p2p where your node only store the content you value (which is the content you want and content your node think your peers want). The whole design is based on incentives. I dare to imagine that this is might be a novel p2p protocol, because I never heard of it before (though that could be simple ignorance on my part).

2024-08-26 07:49:10

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No. No-one knows about it. I developed it a few years ago (before Nostr existed) when I designed a network that is pretty similar to Nostr. I realized that for content to properly propagate while remaining true p2p and work even in ultra hostile environments (such local adhoc meshnetworks that were being attacked (think demonstrations etc)) content needed to be filtered. When Nostr broke through and reached escape velocity, I quit working on it.

2024-08-26 07:39:53

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Id say its semantic nitpicking (which can be a good thing) and that it also depends on what ur trying to understand about it. Bitcoin is much more than p2p though, because there is a social layer to it, incentive models, etc.

2024-08-26 07:28:14

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words of wisdom! we need true p2p and this requires some sort of content filtering. fortunately there is a way: #peercuration https://github.com/baumbit/peercuration?tab=readme-ov-file#peercuration

2024-08-26 07:26:37

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There is nothing preventing this, but someone has to do it. And someone will, at least when the attacks starts. We could go even further though… and will need to integrate #peercuration

2024-08-26 07:23:01

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yes. i thought about implementing the #treebit network topology (https://github.com/baumbit/treebit?tab=readme-ov-file#what-is-treebit) on #Nostr You could easily do this using a nostr bouncer and wrap it in an onion server.

2024-08-26 07:00:35

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Thats a great idea! And it’s possible. I designed a protocol similar to Nostr (before it existed) based on the idea that all users gets extra benefit from running their own node. It is the #treebit network (https://github.com/baumbit/treebit?tab=readme-ov-file#what-is-treebit)

2024-08-26 06:57:25

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If there are only a handful they can be attacked easily. If everyone is running a relay, it’s much harder. If everyone run relays (we should) a relay is no longer the proper concept, instead it’s a #node, just like on bitcoin. And we can do it!

2024-08-26 06:54:31

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Along with relays we could also have node-to-node content sharing. It would render attacks on relays more or less pointless, thus no point in even attacking them! Its the #protocolSociety mediated by #peercuration

2024-08-26 06:48:20

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I have a network design that fixes this problem (You can find a proof-of-concept here: https://github.com/baumbit/treebit ). The fix is easy: node-to-node (p2p, just like bitcoin) and content propagation is solved by #peercuration (https://github.com/baumbit/peercuration). The design even works in adhoc meshnetworks. And… good news everyone, its applicable to Nostr notes!!!

2024-08-26 06:43:44

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In the end we need some type of computer, but the relay design is much hub-n-spole where as node-to-node is less so. I designed a Nostr like network that is node-to-node and the same design could easily be applied to Nostr: https://github.com/baumbit/treebit

2024-08-25 18:14:35

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but crazy world

2024-08-25 18:14:24

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world

2024-08-25 18:14:13

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happy

2024-08-25 05:09:25

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lite of truth to this… I had this in mind when I designed #peercuration https://github.com/baumbit/peercuration

2024-08-20 13:26:07

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no problem @npub1sg6…f63m just use https://github.com/baumbit/peercuration?tab=readme-ov-file#peercuration

2024-08-18 04:36:53

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try grean tea and cacao

2024-08-17 10:12:47

Analyza Nostr users follow list, combine with Zaps and Likes, etc. => Create list where content is sorted on most attention => Result: Curated feeds

2024-08-15 02:25:36

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the #protocolSociety where cryptography + game theory = the future

2024-08-14 08:48:41

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there is also a way to mitigate spam on #nostr
#note1e5j…4jw6

2024-08-14 06:33:18

a #nostr #relay could be programmed to analyze all the publicly available data, sort it and present a curated feed, that is personalized to the npub.
such a sorting algo would NOT be centralized, because users could run their own relay. the sorting would also be done only to serve the needs of the user (not the relay). I refer to this kind of relay as a #treelay because its based on https://github.com/baumbit/peercuration?tab=readme-ov-file#peercuration and the end-product is a content tree graph.

2024-08-14 05:12:24

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i think of personalized crowd based content filtering, replacing centralized brainwashing algos. you can impl https://github.com/baumbit/peercuration?tab=readme-ov-file#peercuration on nostr using public data and distribute via relays aka a #treelay

2024-08-14 05:07:04

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its the emergence of the #protocolSociety basically cypherpunks creating public utility goods. next up we can replace the centralized filtering algos, with personalized sorting relays aka #treelay

2024-08-14 05:02:42

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crowd based sorting algos is inevitable, but few people have hears about it. #peercuration is how we make un-censorable personalized spam free user experience. in nostr impl as #treelay (a sorting relay)

2024-08-11 04:48:33

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this is why i invented #HashScore https://github.com/baumbit/hashscore which is a simple mechanism for WoT. the most modularized impl would be one where a JSON schema is defining the behavior.

2024-08-10 19:19:51

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u cant own an opinion, but u can share it and thereby spread it. if its an opinion that doesnt hurt u if other have it, u benefit sharing it. this is key and a fundamental underpinning of incentive-driven design #IDD and the bedrock upon which we build the #protocolSociety

2024-08-10 07:55:19

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the #protocolSociety is opt-in, peaceful anarchist grass-root endeavor. its the next iteration of how society organize and is all about designing protocols that have user-incentives as core value!

2024-08-10 07:12:24

user behavior shaping is evil. in #IDD (incentive-driven design) the user shapes the user experience.