木ノ下じょな [ARCHIVE] / is on Nostr

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🗓️ Active from 2015-02-21 to 2019-10-04
💬 Posted a total of 10 messages
📚 Participated in the following categories: Bitcoin-development, bitcoin-dev
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Last Notes

2023-06-07 18:20:59

- reply

📅 Original date posted:2019-10-04
📝 Original message:Hi Jimmy,
The only time I could see this being a problem is in the case of a
fork-coin.
Otherwise the likelihood that two unrelated networks could have a tx with
an id that is identical are low.
Everything included in PSBT thus far is info for verifying something
helpful, and providing the information needed for signing and verifying
what will be signed.
Adding a network section will be the inverse of that. The info doesn't help
you verify anything, since I could lie about the network, and you will need
to go out and check the network is as the PSBT says it is anyways.
Network is also not needed for signing.
In fact, come to think of it, even if there was a fork-coin incident, even
if you were able to separate PSBTs via network info, it won't matter if
there's no replay protection anyways, so giving a false sense of security
in thinking "I have explicitly stated my network so I should be ok"
(developers will think this, I guarantee) is actually a security minus IMO.
Currently BitcoinJS only uses network parameters to allow for the use of
addresses in addOutput... but I'm starting to think we should remove it...
not sure...
Cheers,
Jon
2019年10月4日(金) 11:04 Jimmy Song via bitcoin-dev <
bitcoin-dev at lists.linuxfoundation.org>:
> Hey all,
>
> I wanted to propose a new key in the global context for BIP174,
> Partially-Signed Bitcoin Transactions.
>
> = Rationale
>
> Each signer should make sure that the inputs being referenced in the PSBT
> exist (with the exception of a Proof-of-Reserves input). In order to do
> this, it's critical to know which network the coins are on (mainnet or
> testnet). This could potentially be extended to other networks should they
> want to use something like PSBT, much in the same way that HD keys from
> BIP0044 reserved 0' and 1' as coins for mainnet Bitcoin and testnet Bitcoin
> respectively.
>
> = Proposal
>
> Add the key 0x03 for network in the global key-value store. Value is a
> variable integer with 0x00 indicating Bitcoin mainnet and 0x01 indicating
> Bitcoin testnet. Other coins that want to use the PSBT should use the coin
> network number from SLIP-0044 with the high bit removed.
>
> ---------------------------
>
> Best,
>
> Jimmy
>
> _______________________________________________
> bitcoin-dev mailing list
> bitcoin-dev at lists.linuxfoundation.org
> https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/bitcoin-dev
>
--
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2023-06-07 18:09:16

- reply

📅 Original date posted:2018-01-08
📝 Original message:This is very sad.
The number one problem in Japan with BIP39 seeds is with English words.
I have seen a 60 year old Japanese man writing down his phrase (because he
kept on failing recovery), and watched him write down "aneter" for
"amateur"...
So instead I had him use Copay which generates Japanese words, wrote it
down 20x faster, and perfectly. Was able to recovery on the first try.
Imagine if I didn't tell him to try recovery before using it? (iirc Trezor
doesn't say to wipe and recover before using???)
If you understand English and can spell, you read a word, your brain
processes the word, and you can spell it on your own when writing down.
Not many Japanese people can do that, so they need to copy letter for
letter, taking a long time, and still messing up on occasion.
Even native English speakers who can't spell can mess it up badly too.
To be honest, a key storage format that doesn't support multiple languages
is much more dangerous than any doomsday situation you can think of for
supporting them.
BIP39 states that seed derivation is INDEPENDENT of wordlists, and that
failure to verify checksum (not knowing the wordlist falls under this)
should "WARN" the user and not fail, continuing to derive the seed anyways.
Currently the only wallet I know of following this part of the BIP is,
ironically Electrum. I can recover any BIP39 phrase from any wordlist even
if Electrum doesn't know it.
I really hope you reconsider multi-language support for everything moving
forward.
I understand it's a nightmare to plan for and support, which is fine if you
were just developing a piece of software sold by a company based in a
western country... but you are trying to make a standard for an
international currency. Defining "everyone should only use English, because
ASCII is easier to plan for" is not a good way to move forward as a
currency.
I am just thinking of all the users I will have to help out down the road
when they come crying to me saying they can't recover, and it turns out
they wrote down some non-English gibberish in roman characters claiming "I
wrote the English just as it was on the screen!" and I have to write a
brute force script to try all the word combinations for the mystery words.
(I have done this before)
Just my two cents. Not to be accusatory or anything.
Please reconsider. Thanks.
2018-01-08 0:16 GMT+09:00 Pavol Rusnak via bitcoin-dev <
bitcoin-dev at lists.linuxfoundation.org>:
> On 05/01/18 14:58, nullius via bitcoin-dev wrote:
> > I propose and request as an enhancement that the BIP 39 wordlist set
> > should specify canonical native language strings to identify each
> > wordlist, as well as short ASCII language codes. At present, the
> > languages are identified only by their names in English.
>
> I am advising not to use any other language than English for BIP39. I
> got persuaded to allow more languages when writing BIP39 spec, but I
> learned that it was something I should've been more persistently against.
>
> I am currently drafting a new standard[1] which will allow also Shamir
> Secret Scheme Splitting and there we disallow usage of a custom wordlist
> in order to eradicate this mess. Will try to push this as BIP too once
> we get it to the point we are OK with the contents.
>
> https://github.com/satoshilabs/slips/blob/master/slip-0039.md
>
> --
> Best Regards / S pozdravom,
>
> Pavol "stick" Rusnak
> CTO, SatoshiLabs
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> bitcoin-dev mailing list
> bitcoin-dev at lists.linuxfoundation.org
> https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/bitcoin-dev
>
>
--
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2023-06-07 17:55:28

- reply

📅 Original date posted:2017-01-09
📝 Original message:I have been seeing issues like the following many times on all the
different projects that support multisig with users responsible for partial
transaction transport.
https://github.com/OutCast3k/coinbin/issues/73
I would like to gather opinions before proposing a BIP, (like whether we
need one or not) so please let me know what you think.
Basically, Electrum, Copay, Coinb.in, Bitcoin Core, etc. all have different
methodology for serializing partially signed multisig raw transactions, as
well as not-signed raw transactions regardless of scriptPubkey.
I think we should all be on the same page when serializing not-signed and
partially signed transactions so that the person could look at the data
alone and know what is necessary and how to manipulate it to sign and
complete the transaction.
- Jon
--
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2023-06-07 17:55:28

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2023-06-07 17:55:28

- reply

📅 Original date posted:2017-01-10
📝 Original message:Hey Thomas,
Just to clear the air, I am not OutCast3k, but I have submitted various PRs
to coinb.in under multiple handle names, and also Copay and Electrum. (You
could say I have multisig in my blood if you want to be cheesy)
I think I'm going to go ahead and draft up a BIP and submit it here just to
get the ball rolling.
Any ideas or input can be sent to me directly via email. I'll also start a
Telegram group chat https://t.me/joinchat/AAAAAAutbBADJuHRD7YvHw in case
anyone wants to join in on the discussion.
Thanks,
Jon
2017-01-10 18:18 GMT+09:00 Thomas Kerin <me at thomaskerin.io>:
> Hey,
>
> Firstly, your project coinb.in is really cool, I've used it a bit back in
> the day :-)
>
> It makes sense why you're looking for this proposal. I'm pretty sure on
> top of a serialisation of an unsigned tx with the scriptpubkey (it is to
> deliver signing data to the wallet too?) then you'll also want a protocol
> to request signatures.
>
> I worked on this problem before, when I was using your site and a tool of
> mine to carry out transactions. I would up writing a BIP that's basically
> the same (in message contents, not format) as Jonas's hardware signing BIP.
>
> I think he also realised that it's not just for hardware wallets, it's
> also perfect for a BitGo wallet to use to talk to a GreenAddress wallet. It
> seems to cover the web case nicely.
>
> (My app was one where users could supply an xpub for multisigs to the
> server, get txs, and do signing offline or in the browser)
>
> Maybe have a look over it and see if it starts to capture some of the
> things you would want!
>
> All the best,
> Thomas
>
>
>
> On 9 January 2017 10:36:49 CET, "木ノ下じょな via bitcoin-dev" <
> bitcoin-dev at lists.linuxfoundation.org> wrote:
>>
>> I have been seeing issues like the following many times on all the
>> different projects that support multisig with users responsible for partial
>> transaction transport.
>>
>> https://github.com/OutCast3k/coinbin/issues/73
>>
>> I would like to gather opinions before proposing a BIP, (like whether we
>> need one or not) so please let me know what you think.
>>
>> Basically, Electrum, Copay, Coinb.in, Bitcoin Core, etc. all have
>> different methodology for serializing partially signed multisig raw
>> transactions, as well as not-signed raw transactions regardless of
>> scriptPubkey.
>>
>> I think we should all be on the same page when serializing not-signed and
>> partially signed transactions so that the person could look at the data
>> alone and know what is necessary and how to manipulate it to sign and
>> complete the transaction.
>>
>> - Jon
>>
>> --
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>>
>
> --
> Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity.
>
--
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2023-06-07 15:32:20

- reply

📅 Original date posted:2015-04-08
📝 Original message:William,
I believe the reasoning for this is stated in the Coin Type section.
"Public derivation is used so that cosigners need only know one of each
other's public keys, rather than needing to distribute public keys for each
coin."
BIP44 has a coin level, but it's a private derived level, so cosigners
would not be able to generate multiple crypto currencies of each others'
without giving each other n xpubs where n is the number of currencies
shared. This new proposal basically sticks coin type on the public
derivation side of things so that I could generate litecoin or darkcoin
multisigs without your permission...
Kefkius,
This BIP seems like a good fit for multi-currency wallets based on
multisig. So kudos for putting it in writing.
However, I don't know if this is really a BIP thing. It's not improving
Bitcoin (Bitcoin Improvement Proposal... remember?), in fact, by definition
it is improving altcoin usability.
For that reason alone I will say I disagree for a BIP for this.
- Jona
2015-04-08 16:46 GMT+09:00 William Swanson <swansontec at gmail.com>:
>
> It's not really clear why this is better than BIP 44 as it already
> stands. You have the same fields, but they are just in a different
> order. Couldn't you just use the existing BIP 44 hierarchy, but add
> the convention that "wallet/account N" is the same wallet in each
> supported currency?
>
> For example, if I have a wallet called "business expenses", which
> happens to be wallet m / 44' / 0' / 5', for Bitcoin, then the same
> wallet would be m / 44' / 3' / 5' for Dogecoin, and m / 44' / 2' / 5'
> for Litecoin.
>
> I am trying to think of examples where your proposal is better than
> BIP 44, but I can't think of any. Even backup recovery works fine. I
> assume that your idea is to continue iterating over the different
> wallet indices as long as you are finding funds in *any* currency.
> Well, you can still do that with BIP 44. The fields are in a different
> order, but that doesn't affect the algorithm in any way.
>
> Maybe you have some deeper insight I'm not seeing, but if so, you need
> to clearly explain that in your motivation section. The current
> explanation, "This limits the possible implementations of
> multi-currency, multisignature wallets," is pretty vauge. Also, there
> is nothing in this spec that addresses the multisignature use-case.
> The BIP 45 spec does a lot of extra work to make multisignature work
> smoothly.
>
> I'm not trying to criticize your proposal. I'm just trying to
> understand what it's trying to accomplish.
>
> -William Swanson
>
>
> On Wed, Apr 8, 2015 at 12:05 AM, Kefkius <kefkius at maza.club> wrote:
> > I have a potential BIP, "Multi-Currency Hierarchy For Use In
> > Multisignature Deterministic Wallets." I'm requesting discussion on it,
> > and possibly assignment of a BIP number.
> >
> > It's located in this github gist:
> > https://gist.github.com/Kefkius/1aa02945e532f8739023
> >
> >
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > BPM Camp - Free Virtual Workshop May 6th at 10am PDT/1PM EDT
> > Develop your own process in accordance with the BPMN 2 standard
> > Learn Process modeling best practices with Bonita BPM through live
exercises
> > http://www.bonitasoft.com/be-part-of-it/events/bpm-camp-virtual-
event?utm_
> > source=Sourceforge_BPM_Camp_5_6_15&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=VA_SF
> > _______________________________________________
> > Bitcoin-development mailing list
> > Bitcoin-development at lists.sourceforge.net
> > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bitcoin-development
>
>
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> BPM Camp - Free Virtual Workshop May 6th at 10am PDT/1PM EDT
> Develop your own process in accordance with the BPMN 2 standard
> Learn Process modeling best practices with Bonita BPM through live
exercises
> http://www.bonitasoft.com/be-part-of-it/events/bpm-camp-virtual-
event?utm_
> source=Sourceforge_BPM_Camp_5_6_15&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=VA_SF
> _______________________________________________
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> Bitcoin-development at lists.sourceforge.net
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bitcoin-development
--
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2023-06-07 15:30:51

- reply

📅 Original date posted:2015-02-21
📝 Original message:Hello Bob,
> And compromise of that longer key still compromises the entire wallet.
No, in fact I could give you any node (derived extended private key) or key
(derived normal bitcoin address private key) AND any node's extended public
key above them, and as long as the keys are generated within my
specifications, you can not derive the associated extended private key to
the ancestor extended public key.
If you think it still compromises the entire wallet, please show me in
pseudo code / explanation.
> Under what circumstances would anyone ever be passing around private keys
without your a,b?
I just added a Motivation section showing one example called Reality Keys.
They send bitcoins to Yes/No bet addresses and the result of the bet's
private key is revealed to award the winners via special P2SH scripts.
So they would need to give out "smaller" keys (aka normal private keys) and
it would be better to manage them hierarchically instead of just generating
millions of keys ahead of time and storing them on USBs or something.
Thanks,
Jona
2015-02-21 22:57 GMT+09:00 Bob Mcelrath <bob at mcelrath.org>:
> But this just makes the private HD key longer, effectively. And compromise
> of that longer key still compromises the entire wallet.
>
> Under what circumstances would anyone ever be passing around private keys
> without your a,b? The longer privkey is a wallet backup and has a reason to
> be copied. I can't think of a scenario where anyone would use or compromise
> the shorter privkey.
>
> On February 21, 2015 8:32:30 AM EST, "木ノ下じょな" <kinoshitajona at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>>
>> Yes.
>>
>> That is similar to an idea at FC15 (
>> http://fc15.ifca.ai/preproceedings/paper_15.pdf) but instead of
>> increasing the number of keys needed up to m, and protecting against m-1
>> leaks. (so if you have to give keys out to 10 departments you must store 11
>> keys, or 363 bytes, I have decided to leave it at 2 keys protecting 1 leak,
>> and then using convention to prevent calculating the master private key by
>> requiring all private keys AND all extended private keys (aka "nodes" in my
>> proposal) to be derived alone under their respective parents.
>>
>> In theory this will prevent leakage of private keys from destroying the
>> entire HD wallet entirely.
>>
>> Services like "Reality Keys" could be a perfect use case (he must release
>> private keys relating to the outcome, so he has decided against using BIP32
>> to generate addresses for! the bets.
>>
>> Any Cryptographers that would like to take a look at the math and see if
>> it's sound, I think I am properly breaking any linear relationships between
>> keys... but I would like a second opinion.
>>
>> Thank you for your reply,
>> Jona
>>
>> 2015-02-21 22:23 GMT+09:00 Adam Back <adam at cypherspace.org>:
>>
>>> Whats the objective? Is it to require accidental disclosure of two
>>> private keys to compute the master private key?
>>>
>>> Adam
>>>
>>> On 21 February 2015 at 13:20, 木ノ下じょな <kinoshitajona at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> > Hello All,
>>> >
>>> > I have put together a proposal for a new generation methodology of HD
>>> > wallets.
>>> >
>>> > The method is a modification of BIP32, so if something is unclear or
>>> not
>>> > explicit, please assume it follows BIP32.
>>> >
>>> > I am looking forward to any and all criticism and help with writing /
>>> making
>>> > the BIP more secure.
>>> >
>>> > If some of my pseudo code / English is off I apologize, I am not good
>>> with
>>> > words.
>>> >
>>> > If this is deemed worthy enough to be drafted into a BIP, I would
>>> appreciate
>>> > if someone could tell me what the overall step by step flow would be.
>>> >
>>> > Thank you, I will paste the link to the proposal below.
>>> > Jona
>>> >
>>> > https://gist.github.com/dabura667/875bb2c159b219c18885
>>> >
>>> > --
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>>> >
>>> >
>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>> > Download BIRT iHub F-Type - The Free Enterprise-Grade BIRT Server
>>> > from Actuate! Instantly Supercharge Your Business Reports and
>>> Dashboards
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>>> >
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
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>> -----END PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK-----
>> !DSPAM:54e88938261511932039196!
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> Download BIRT iHub F-Type - The Free Enterprise-Grade BIRT Server
>> from Actuate! Instantly Supercharge Your Business Reports and Dashboards
>> with Interactivity, Sharing, Native Excel Exports, App Integration & more
>> Get technology previously reserved for billion-dollar corporations, FREE
>> http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=190641631&iu=/4140/ostg.clktrk
>>
>> !DSPAM:54e88938261511932039196!
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
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>>
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> --
> Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity.
>
--
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2023-06-07 15:30:51

- reply

📅 Original date posted:2015-02-23
📝 Original message:Hello All,
I have updated the algorithm to include b in the derivation of a and vice
versa.
In the comment section of the gist, jhoenicke kindly pointed out that a
derivation was not including b at all, so colluding derivation was weak to
1 leaked descendant private node.
I am on my phone, but once I get home I will write out how to compromise
the parent private node with two child private nodes and the parent public
node.
Hopefully writing that out will help give an understanding of any other
hidden tricks.
Sorry if a majority don't think BIP32 is a problem, but if anyone who has
interest could comment and double check the math, I would appreciate it.
Thanks,
Jona
2015年2月21日土曜日、木ノ下じょな<kinoshitajona at gmail.com>さんは書きました:
> Hello All,
>
> I have put together a proposal for a new generation methodology of HD
> wallets.
>
> The method is a modification of BIP32, so if something is unclear or not
> explicit, please assume it follows BIP32.
>
> I am looking forward to any and all criticism and help with writing /
> making the BIP more secure.
>
> If some of my pseudo code / English is off I apologize, I am not good with
> words.
>
> If this is deemed worthy enough to be drafted into a BIP, I would
> appreciate if someone could tell me what the overall step by step flow
> would be.
>
> Thank you, I will paste the link to the proposal below.
> Jona
>
> https://gist.github.com/dabura667/875bb2c159b219c18885
>
> --
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2023-06-07 15:30:50

- reply

📅 Original date posted:2015-02-21
📝 Original message:Thank you for your feedback. I have written the Abstract and Motivation.
If my English is poor please let me know. Also let me know any other
comments or criticism you may have.
Thank you,
Jona
2015-02-21 22:34 GMT+09:00 Pavol Rusnak <stick at gk2.sk>:
> On 21/02/15 14:20, 木ノ下じょな wrote:
> > I have put together a proposal for a new generation methodology of HD
> > wallets.
>
> Your proposal is missing Abstract and Motivation sections. Abstract
> tells us WHAT are trying to achieve, Motivation tells WHY. It's not
> worth to dig into technical details of your implementation until these
> two questions are answered.
>
> --
> Best Regards / S pozdravom,
>
> Pavol Rusnak <stick at gk2.sk>
>
--
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2023-06-07 15:30:50

- reply

📅 Original date posted:2015-02-21
📝 Original message:Yes.
That is similar to an idea at FC15 (
http://fc15.ifca.ai/preproceedings/paper_15.pdf) but instead of increasing
the number of keys needed up to m, and protecting against m-1 leaks. (so if
you have to give keys out to 10 departments you must store 11 keys, or 363
bytes, I have decided to leave it at 2 keys protecting 1 leak, and then
using convention to prevent calculating the master private key by requiring
all private keys AND all extended private keys (aka "nodes" in my proposal)
to be derived alone under their respective parents.
In theory this will prevent leakage of private keys from destroying the
entire HD wallet entirely.
Services like "Reality Keys" could be a perfect use case (he must release
private keys relating to the outcome, so he has decided against using BIP32
to generate addresses for the bets.
Any Cryptographers that would like to take a look at the math and see if
it's sound, I think I am properly breaking any linear relationships between
keys... but I would like a second opinion.
Thank you for your reply,
Jona
2015-02-21 22:23 GMT+09:00 Adam Back <adam at cypherspace.org>:
> Whats the objective? Is it to require accidental disclosure of two
> private keys to compute the master private key?
>
> Adam
>
> On 21 February 2015 at 13:20, 木ノ下じょな <kinoshitajona at gmail.com> wrote:
> > Hello All,
> >
> > I have put together a proposal for a new generation methodology of HD
> > wallets.
> >
> > The method is a modification of BIP32, so if something is unclear or not
> > explicit, please assume it follows BIP32.
> >
> > I am looking forward to any and all criticism and help with writing /
> making
> > the BIP more secure.
> >
> > If some of my pseudo code / English is off I apologize, I am not good
> with
> > words.
> >
> > If this is deemed worthy enough to be drafted into a BIP, I would
> appreciate
> > if someone could tell me what the overall step by step flow would be.
> >
> > Thank you, I will paste the link to the proposal below.
> > Jona
> >
> > https://gist.github.com/dabura667/875bb2c159b219c18885
> >
> > --
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> >
> >
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > Download BIRT iHub F-Type - The Free Enterprise-Grade BIRT Server
> > from Actuate! Instantly Supercharge Your Business Reports and Dashboards
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2023-06-07 15:30:50

- reply

2023-06-07 15:30:49

- reply

📅 Original date posted:2015-02-21
📝 Original message:Hello All,
I have put together a proposal for a new generation methodology of HD
wallets.
The method is a modification of BIP32, so if something is unclear or not
explicit, please assume it follows BIP32.
I am looking forward to any and all criticism and help with writing /
making the BIP more secure.
If some of my pseudo code / English is off I apologize, I am not good with
words.
If this is deemed worthy enough to be drafted into a BIP, I would
appreciate if someone could tell me what the overall step by step flow
would be.
Thank you, I will paste the link to the proposal below.
Jona
https://gist.github.com/dabura667/875bb2c159b219c18885
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