viktorvsk
Viktor Vsk

Building #saltivka 🇺🇦 Nostr Friendly Relay (https://saltivka.org)

Building #Knowstr — smart Nostr events aggregator (https://github.com/viktorvsk/knowstr)

Working to enable people have more activities through the word of mouth between friends, friends of friends and more 🤝 with https://recar.io and https://valent.network

Public Key

npub13f5edp5przy3sm0nnrrj205vgstuuul7s98datn7ekqahh54x6kqufgvmt

NIP-05 Address

me@saltivka.org

Profile Code

nprofile1qqsg56vks6q33zgcdhee33e986xyg97ww0lgznk74elvmqwmm62ndtqpp4mhxue69uhkummn9ekx7mqpzemhxue69uhhyetvv9ujumn0wd68ytnzv9hxgp56ln3

Publishing to

nos.lol

relay.nostr.band

relay.damus.io

Author Public Key

npub13f5edp5przy3sm0nnrrj205vgstuuul7s98datn7ekqahh54x6kqufgvmt

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Last Notes

2024-10-22 13:10:04

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JFYI antigovernment messages containing populist agenda have tough time to be treated seriously usually

2024-10-19 18:25:33

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You are right,
I’m wrong,
nostr has already
won.

2024-10-19 17:58:33

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You make many legit claims but mix it with incorrect ones which makes it very time consuming to argue with so sorry, I will only answer with a simple statement:
Yes, we have a lot of non profit media and journalists today and it works fine! Don’t even know why bothering with smth like nostr

2024-10-18 09:31:44

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Maybe not all will apply. But this thread is an indication of the first step at least :)

2024-10-18 05:53:44

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You contradict yourself. I suggest you to take your advice :)
Again, I’ll try to put it simpler using your words. There is not a single jurisdiction without at least ANY restriction => EVERY operator MUST scan for illegal content unless they are uncatchable Joe. So your first argument doesn’t hold.
Also, relays MUST be for profit (if we are not talking about nostr in its today form no one uses just like right now) - because one has to pay for hosting and operation. So your second argument doesn’t hold.
Its great to have hopium at early stage project, but it has to be healthy balanced anyway

2024-10-17 21:32:43

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Anyone can curate and this can be almost free (spam)
But those who decide to train: they spend their resources, they bear responsibility, they get penalized.
So for me it looks like the only viable option for “decentralized curation, centralized training” is communism
How else could this be achieved?
P.S. also it seems to me it has the same vibes as “relays should grant free speech and forget monetization”

2024-10-17 19:54:15

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CommunismAI?

2024-10-17 06:50:04

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So relays should allow everything except for illegal content without even scanning fir illegal content you say?
Also cloud providers and ISPs must be forced to allow relays hosting for free right?

2024-10-16 12:03:01

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https://www.techdirt.com/2022/11/02/hey-elon-let-me-help-you-speed-run-the-content-moderation-learning-curve/

2024-10-15 07:20:06

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Nostr already won.

2024-10-13 20:14:56

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Land was good when you were able to protect it with your punches, stickes, stones maybe guns
Today land does not belong to people but to bigger constructs, so comparison makes little sense

2024-10-11 19:45:09

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What are nostr advantages over lets say https://docs.postgrest.org/en/v12/ for such apps?

2024-10-11 18:37:40

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What every fantasy film - it will be called credits :)

2024-10-11 18:33:25

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You mention that nostr “works” for social clients but not yet there for “other stuff”. Just keep in mind, its at the very least debatable if it works for social:
1. No likes
2. No followers
3. Broken profiles
4. No search
5. No private messages (yet)
6. No groups (yet)
7. No stats
8. No attachments
9. Single account for life
10. … list goes on
And the answer is usually “you don’t need it and hoy you will be happy”
The thought to change query language in future is interesting.
P.S. regarding “to database or not” I personally don’t have strong opinion but rather tend to believe “relays for transmitting, layer-2 for clients”

2024-10-08 05:50:57

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https://www.wired.com/story/this-startup-is-using-ai-to-unearth-new-smells/

2024-10-06 17:23:22

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You asked a single question which I’ve answered in the simplest form possible. If you have another answer, ask it, this is how it works, when you don’t live hopium but real life

2024-10-06 17:20:58

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So what about them? They shutdown as soon as first complaint is filed. In reality they shutdown much earlier because actual traffic from a real social network does not fit into $5 vps
I’m just stating facts, sorry if I’m ruining your hopium, I honestly hope this outbox will fix this, btw, is it here with us in the room right now?

2024-10-06 17:12:36

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10 twitters running on the same protocol located in different countries/continents is rather decentralized
10 engineers running $5 vps for free will shut down with the first governmental subpoena (whichever govt it is)
So the answer is - “rather millions”

2024-10-06 08:53:02

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I’m trying to use a dozen of different search engines, and none of my devices has google as default search. However each time I actually need to search for something more complex (not so often though) I only use google because others simply don’t work

2024-10-02 22:55:47

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https://github.com/viktorvsk/saltivka

2024-10-02 22:30:39

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Yeah, would nostr be ruby, it wouldn’t stuck at 10k users for so long :)

2024-10-02 22:29:57

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Well I could agree golang does web dev better than ruby-from-2000 :) other than that golang is great for “micro-services”. Luckily, “micro-services” are dying pretty fast lately
Every tool has a use-case, and average startup needs a way to handle complex business rules quickly and long-term

2024-10-02 20:40:31

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Why? There are no better tools yet to manage business logic heavy apps yet, especially that allow for so quick start on a $5 VPS and scale to multi million AWS setup

2024-10-02 20:36:41

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I believe ruby is still the most popular language for startups backend development if you factor out python hype which is temporary and wordpress-level development. Even server-side javascript is not very popular if you don’t count API->NextJS(server)->NextJS(client) as server side javascript
But yeah, most likely OpenAPI is enough, at least for 20/80

2024-09-28 19:59:36

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When I stand still my speed is 0 km/h, when I walk its 4 km/h, when I run its sometimes 15 km/h, wow, just a little bit of practice and I can throw my car away and commute 50 km just by running really fast!

2024-09-28 19:46:49

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Creators are the core of every social network. 1% of creators produce 90%+ of content people want to consume. Without creators a project could be anything but a social network
Just my 2 cents experience on that:
Last year I’ve started a project https://github.com/viktorvsk/saltivka to address this issue in particular, to build more tools for creators
However, I’ve found zero interest in the community to go this way. Most of the feedback usually “its a better place without influencers here”, “nostr already won and they will join when they understand, same as with bitcoin”, “I like nostr to be a safe place for smart people and I don’t want millions of idiots here”
So I’ve stopped building this part of nostr, because it requires coordination between relay devs, clients devs, ui/ux designers and operations teams, so I don’t see I can handle its all on my own

2024-09-28 12:20:19

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Well id Ukraine is insignificant for someone to support then just sit down and wait until a country significant to them will appear in the same position as Ukraine right now. L
The slightly difference will be that instead of money and verbal support they will have to send their own people to die, but thats probably insignificant once a significant country is invaded, right?

2024-09-28 11:54:44

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Lol, people considering this “an escalation” are so stupid, which makes this topic almost as good litmus test as bitcoin is

2024-09-27 06:29:12

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Of course it will not

2024-09-25 09:22:50

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Nostr is a subset of http

2024-09-25 07:39:53

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The only reason why you can write to big ones right now is because no one uses nostr right now. There is no even theoretical incentive for public relays to operate if nostr really becomes something
And no one wants to address this issue. Instead people tend to over engineer 64K relays that are extremely efficient and can serve 256 out of a coffee machine

2024-09-25 07:37:48

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I still believe if everyone who is able to create their own personal intelligent spam filter does it (I stopped for example because don’t see any value in it right now) — all those people will be able to discuss are bitcoin, nostr, meat, anarcho capitalism, libertarianism and maybe some other cryptocurrencies, but unsure here. However, I define “twitter alternative” completely differently
Hope to be very wrong and your optimism to play out well 👍

2024-09-25 07:19:13

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Running relay is cheap and will only become cheaper and corporations are straight stupid paying millions of dollars monthly for infrastructure?
Or rather this “cheap outbox relay approach” ignores social media aspects and focuses on “private groups” scenarios which is more like my personal webpage no one knows about rather twitter alternative?

2024-09-25 06:35:47

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So you expect everyone runs their own relay, just like everyone runs email servers today right?
Remember there is no centralization around gmail today — you can always selfhost since smtp is an open protocol. And if someone wont receive your emails well thats not a problem right?

2024-09-25 05:17:20

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Then you should probably not generalize your statement “any govt will break any expectation” too, otherwise your words don’t make sense and have just selective meaning to highlight what you want to say right here right now
Just the same as people who on one hand has some expectations from their govt (i.e support rusia genocide by dropping support of Ukraine) but completely forget that for example US has much bigger liabilities and according to its own decions it MUST send their soldiers to fight rusia but instead just decides to give some pennies the majority if which only support US manufacture and arsenal refresh.

2024-09-24 21:50:17

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This website is censoring my phone :(

2024-09-24 21:44:56

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So if you do not separate govts and ppl and you think you cannot trust any single govt - it seems like you want to say you should not trust any single person, is it what you mean?

2024-09-24 19:59:43

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So you completely separate governments and people right?

2024-09-24 19:41:49

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Whats your personal view on govts breaking their international agreements?

2024-09-24 19:39:51

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Less bombs, more responsibility to your own words and decisions — hello budapest memo 👋

2024-09-24 19:27:49

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> Advocates of each of these projects of course would dispute this, pointing out that you could always self-host, or somehow avoid depending on their semi-official infrastructure, but the truth is that if you're not on bluesky.app or warpcast.com, you don't exist, and nobody cares that you don't exist.
Aren’t nostr adepts of mythical outbox who consider anything server side to be an evil centralization from “them” saying the same things? “No one guarantees relays keep your posts but you can always selfhost and no one will care about you and this is a good thing because Nostr is a pure signal and we don’t need stupid normies here!”

2024-09-23 19:58:05

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I’m not very interested in your content because for me its 100% obvious what you are saying (I totally agree with you), I also don’t like posts usually because it makes no sense on nostr right now and no one wants it fixed
However I must admit seeing content like yours is very inspiring — its a breath among bitcoin/nostr/politics that gives hope this place could be used for regular social network activities

2024-09-22 13:47:51

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Really good question, maybe its because LLMs can only complete your sentences and not “carry a conversation and understand complex commands”? 🤔
Intent recognition (i.e https://cloud.google.com/dialogflow/cx/docs/concept/intent) topic is a bit different to LLM.
Can LLM mimic intent recognition? Absolutely! If-else statements can do that too though

2024-09-22 09:25:20

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Self hosted client side and p2p federation sound like you really now the thing!

2024-09-19 20:18:56

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Bitcoin fixes physical world in general and governments in particular
Outbox fixes virtual world in general and spam in particular
Nostr and bitcoin are protocols so they already won and we don’t have to do nothing
🍾🎉🍾

2024-09-19 20:10:24

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There are far less than 15000 active users and @npub1xts…kk5s pays something for the damus relay — what should I do for my 10GBps raspberry4 to substitute relay.damus.io?

2024-09-19 20:07:45

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More evil than rusian terrorists committing genocides all over the world for decades and their people praising and sponsoring this?

2024-09-16 09:34:39

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Smells like premature optimization

2024-09-16 09:30:58

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Haha did you actually develop any software at least once?

2024-09-07 21:09:32

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Does the same apply to email and DNS servers?

2024-08-24 17:45:08

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Do you really considered mentioned resources to be youtube alternatives?

2024-08-23 20:57:17

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I was thinking on doing something similar but after initial investigation of fine tuming mechanics and consulting with great AI scientists and ML engs I came to the conclusion it won’t work nearly as good as I imagined and I didnt even start
Would be extremely interesting to see at least a prototype 👍

2024-08-23 18:21:36

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Rag and fine tune are like apple to oranges — different tools for different purposes

2024-08-23 17:07:25

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Nice idea but I bet that would look like a spam for the majority of both: normies and bitcoiners

2024-08-18 02:42:30

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Since the number of relay operators became equal 1 and the operator decided it doesn’t make sense to do so

2024-08-17 11:42:43

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Twitter is an implementation of nostr when its irrelevant how many relays there are

2024-08-16 06:55:34

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Keep in mind today it would be Webmain

2024-08-12 15:32:13

TL; DR;
Businesses please be altruistic and even when you are so genius that you find a way to get profit — focus on helping your competitors to throw you out for the greater good, because capitalism is evil #note1248…ylj9

2024-08-11 19:24:13

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In my definition you have a different assumption on the first item - I don’t believe in the foreseeable future there will be a mesh of foss mobile devices that will be used as a social network in todays terms i.e hundreds of millions of users. I could believe this could be true for tens of thousands though. In this case nostr will be completely different product compared to how I see it now and how others see it now.
If you believe this network to onboard hundreds of millions of users, I would be cery gld to appear wrong

2024-08-11 15:09:02

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There are lots of unsolved problems but there is thr biggest fundamental issue I personally can’t find any solution to and the community simply ignores it. Consider pre requisits
1. You consider nostr to become a social network in modern definition of the term i.e allowing hundreds of millions of ppl around the globe to communicate and discover
2. You do not expect every 3rd nostr user to selfhost their relay on a $5/mo and this to somehow magically allow previous thesis
3. You do not expect 100% of the users to pay $10/mo for the less features any existing “free” social network provides
With this in mind, the fundamental problem is the following:
The only way to provide customers with okish services requires you to consolidate client and server and at this point you become web2.0 company with incentives to lock your users inside of your ecosystem.
If you believe in “free market” you have to understand web2.0 companies tried to break this circle for 30 years without luck. So the problem nostr faces right now is much challenging than implementing enterprise relay or even figuring out this hopium outbox model. But its easier to ignore hard challenges

2024-08-11 09:50:55

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Whats the difference between in-app relay and p2p?

2024-08-11 01:14:54

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Hey, thanks for that! But I’m not interested right now. Did you try asking here https://t.me/nostr_protocol ? There may be some nostr devs who might be interested

2024-08-09 02:23:44

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I wish those people all the best but tbh I don’t believe they either exist or have some real vision
Even if they are real and have such a strong vision they can only keep it in secret… they can’t find a $10k investment/credit to hire a dev? Sounds unreal, sorry, would love to be wrong here :)

2024-08-09 02:17:07

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What you describe is very interesting and I personally think this is a move into right direction, because still a lot of ppl here think “dumb servers, smart clients, outbox, alltoclient etc”
However, you describe it as API or some set of events - and at least at first sight I don’t see why this software should be a relay. At most it may have to know how to connect to relays to get data from them

2024-08-09 02:10:31

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I would really appreciate those people to write at least short and brief articles on how they are going to make money with it, I don’t think this is such a big secret in an open source ecosystem, and it would definitely help spark interest in developers

2024-08-09 01:11:36

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I’m not sure why are you referring to me as I’m company even though I’ve mentioned that I was involved in development. I never had any plans to earn money by operating a relay. I was trying to create a relay that others would operate and earn money on it (because this is the only sustainable way to operate a real relay long term IMO). But I’ve found zero demand for that.
So I was right that you don’t think the lack of incentives for operators is a real problem and you are also sure that free market will decide, so nothing changed in a year looks like, sigh
I really hope to be wrong and to see some day that someone decided to create an enterprise grade relay without thinking about any incentives for operators and it actually played well and they’ve got more than they could dream about :)
But right now I can only see declining number of relays and all of the “paid” relays posting post mortems and deciding to shutdown unfortunately

2024-08-09 00:55:25

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Why would one put time into developing a paid relay if not only no one is going to pay for it but even theoretical incentives to operate a relay do not exist?
Thats what I am (was) talking about - first we, as a community, have to think about the incentives and try to solve them before thinking about enterprise relays, or super mega efficient 5MB relays
But almost no one in the community does not see the lack of incentives as a problem. Judging by your answer, you too

2024-08-08 21:41:55

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Unlikely to be actively developed but you may be interested https://github.com/viktorvsk/saltivka

2024-08-08 21:37:11

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How does a tiny relay hosted on a server no one knows about helps nostr? Is this outbox model here with us in this room?

2024-08-08 21:31:26

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I’ve started working on a relay long time ago and didn’t see anyone willing to work on relays operators incentives.
There was completely no sense to run a relay except for altruism. And everyone was saying its not a problem because nostr has already won because its a protocol and if at some point there is not enough relays you can just spin your own up.
Did anything change recently?

2024-08-06 06:03:32

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You don’t need non-btc content to get non-btc people on a social network. Social networks have 1% of creators, 10% of commentators and 89% of consumers.
Incentivize creators to join nostr and get non-btc content and non-btc people. Unfortunately, nostr has nothing to offer to creators and general point of the core of nostr community is “we don’t need it, nostr already won because its a protocol”

2024-07-29 21:45:26

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Interesting, will take a look, thanks

2024-07-29 21:32:01

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What change?

2024-07-27 21:49:59

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Would be great if snowden would first stop supporting genocide because he decided to become famous. Everything else from his is noise

2024-07-23 18:55:42

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Well if we define simple as less complex and complex as something consisting of more elements than simpler than http is more simple because its a subset of nostr isn’t it? At least its part where you can try to enable permissionless

2024-07-23 18:43:45

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it seems to me, http is simpler

2024-07-13 18:56:52

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Involvement in something big

2024-06-29 07:13:42

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Indeed. Nostrs main feature is that its free. And its free for life. And its free because developing clients and running relays is free, not because it is barely used right now and there are still some people around with great level of enthusiasm and altruism, you are right

2024-05-07 19:10:30

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Highly doubt you can buy the same amount with 50 MMR in SC1 today as you were able to back in 2001

2024-05-05 07:29:04

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Reading those notes I realize how embarrassed mathematicians, physicians and other scientists should feel watching mainstream movies

2024-04-23 18:42:03

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So do I understand correctly that if you are saying that option 1 is not an option that you agree that it makes sense for Ukrainian govt and individuals to demand centralized exchanges, on ramps, off ramps, mining pools etc to limit rusians access to bitcoin/crypto?

2024-04-23 17:52:59

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Bitcoin helps to kill as well as dollars, knives and cars
Sanctions actually do minimize death (to minimal extent unfortunately, a lot of time disproportionally to some harm)
My question is what bitcoiners personal opinion on that. For example, put yourself on a place of Ukrainian bitcoiner who has a choice:
1) build infrastructure for bitcoiner to allow rusians sell more oil and buy more bullets that kill his family
2) try limit rusians abilities to sell oil for bullets using bitcoin

2024-04-23 15:28:39

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Yeah its a well known mantra, but what is your personal opinion on that?

2024-04-23 15:24:57

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Bitcoin is one of the tools that helps rusia avoid sanctions (oil sanctions included) to be able to kill Ukrainians. Just curious, whats your take here, is it good for bitcoin?

2024-04-17 21:40:11

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Would be great to read a comprehensive write up on how it works legally in the very detailed way. Much more interesting than how it works technically tbh
For now it seems like in the veery simplified form you have money in the US bank and in the EU bank and once I come to you in the US and give you $100 you immediately buy bitcoin for $100 in the US, send it to someone in EU, the person in EU converts bitcoin to money in EU bank and sends it to my friend in EUR
Does it really work like this? How many gotchas in the process? What risks are managed and what are not? Extremely interesting!

2024-04-16 07:48:56

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I was trying to do it for a year or so and I gave up. I don’t think manual curation on social network (if we don’t call family/friends groups a social network ofc) is viable.
Today nostr is an echo chamber and only people who love this topic praise it. Do you mind to show active authors here you disagree with? Somebody saying nostr is shit, or US doing everything right or ETH >>> BTC or that palestine must not be free?

2024-04-16 07:45:14

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JFYI Hamas to iran is the same as L/DPR to rusia

2024-04-15 22:35:48

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Idk, but 90% of my feed is propaganda: of nostr, bitcoin, antigovt, antitaxes and “us is bad”, “its not so obvious with rusia/iran” and “outbox model is the only path for nostr”
Almost nothing else. Just @npub1j7j…tdlk posting cool tech stuff from time to time that is interesting to read

2024-04-15 08:07:17

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You’d better listen to rusia arguments from Kharkiv and to iran’s probably from the inside of their country. Why are you still sitting in this awful West?

2024-04-14 15:17:30

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People not overthrowing their evil regimes must understand they can become wiped out at any point in time because if they help kill innocent people then why would one want to rescue them eventually when the board turns?

2024-04-14 15:15:43

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Well if you are privileged enough (last century it means you are living in the US mostly) - you can fight evil governments
The question is what happens to privilege - stays at the same place or floats elsewhere

2024-04-14 15:13:23

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The love is in the air. And in Shaheds flying in this air of course

2024-04-14 01:46:30

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Peacemakers are awesome:
“Iran only treats Israel”
“Iran only launched a couple of hundreds of missiles”
… you are here…
“Iran only used a single tactical nuke”

2024-04-13 19:57:34

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And how does bitcoin helps avoiding wars if not everybody uses bitcoin? Lets say you are right and everybody uses bitcoin in this utopia and suddenly there are no wars and no weapons
And then one state decides to go back and print this dirty fiat. How bitcoin stops wars in this case?

2024-04-13 13:20:25

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So do you want to force EVERYONE to use bitcoin?

2024-04-12 20:22:30

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Likes are identical, aren’t they? Or this is a joke I’ve missed?:)

2024-04-12 00:17:37

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Poor iranians, they are the most peaceful inhabitants on earth who just want to spread love through iron flying machines

2024-04-12 00:16:34

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People never experienced violence can never understand people who did. Entire world was confident rusia never attacked Ukraine between 2010 and 2022

2024-04-08 14:15:07

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Thats a path to become a gatekeeper

2024-04-07 18:28:20

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I mean, “social media experience” can’t be served through a single computer, even super computer. Only John Doe could become self sovereign with a single nostr node.
If some celebrity/politician who gets censored by major nostr relays wants to become self sovereign, a single rpi wont help
Or any dos attack if you are not a famous person but someone wants you off for some reason for example