📅 Original date posted:2017-06-08
📝 Original message:I don't normally post here, but I'm sorry, if you don't see those two as
equal, then I think you have misunderstood the *entire* value proposition
of cryptocurrencies.
The state of any cryptocurrency should entirely (and only) be defined by
its ledger. If the state of the system can be altered outside of the rules
governing its ledger, then the system isn't secure. It doesn't matter
whether the people making those changes are the ones that are leading the
project or not. An "irregular state change" is a fancy term for a bailout.
I'm sure I speak for more than myself in saying that an "irregular state
change" is equivalent to modifying the underlying ledger. Let's not let
semantics keep us from recognizing what actually took place.
-Conner
On Wed, Jun 7, 2017 at 14:14 Nick Johnson via bitcoin-dev <
bitcoin-dev at lists.linuxfoundation.org> wrote:
> On Wed, Jun 7, 2017 at 5:27 PM Tao Effect <contact at taoeffect.com> wrote:
>
>> Nick,
>>
>> Please don't spread misinformation. Whatever you think of the DAO hard
>> fork, it's a simple fact that the Ethereum ledger was not edited.
>>
>>
>> This sort of email is unhelpful to this conversation, and it certainly
>> doesn't help with the perception that Ethereum is nothing but a bunch of
>> hypocritical Bankers 2.0.
>>
>
>
>>
>> Everyone knows you didn't edit Ethereum Classic, but the the hard fork,
>> which was re-branded as Ethereum, was edited.
>>
>
> That's not what I was suggesting. My point is that the ledger was never
> edited. An 'irregular state change' was added at a specific block height,
> but the ledger remains inviolate.
>
> I'm sure I don't have to explain the difference between the ledger and the
> state to you, or why it's significant that the ledger wasn't (and can't be,
> practically) modified.
>
> -Nick
>
>
>> - Greg
>>
>> --
>> Please do not email me anything that you are not comfortable also sharing with
>> the NSA.
>>
>> On Jun 7, 2017, at 6:25 AM, Nick Johnson <nick at ethereum.org> wrote:
>>
>> On Wed, Jun 7, 2017 at 12:02 AM Gregory Maxwell via bitcoin-dev <
>> bitcoin-dev at lists.linuxfoundation.org> wrote:
>>
>>> On Tue, Jun 6, 2017 at 10:39 PM, Tao Effect via bitcoin-dev
>>> <bitcoin-dev at lists.linuxfoundation.org> wrote:
>>> > I believe the severity of replay attacks is going unvoiced and is not
>>> > understood within the bitcoin community because of their lack of
>>> experience
>>> > with them.
>>>
>>> Please don't insult our community-- the issues with replay were
>>> pointed out by us to Ethereum in advance and were cited specifically
>>> in prior hardfork discussions long before Ethereum started editing
>>> their ledger for the economic benefit of its centralized
>>> administrators.
>>
>>
>> Please don't spread misinformation. Whatever you think of the DAO hard
>> fork, it's a simple fact that the Ethereum ledger was not edited.
>>
>> -Nick Johnson
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
> bitcoin-dev mailing list
> bitcoin-dev at lists.linuxfoundation.org
> https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/bitcoin-dev
>
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Conner Fromknecht [ARCHIVE] /
npub1za…uua2a
2023-06-07 18:02:25
in reply to nevent1q…p9mn
Author Public Key
npub1za0a9afyj7um5feva0d5xmhfsah3zxm252hna2duq0numa952frqvuua2aPublished at
2023-06-07 18:02:25Event JSON
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"content": "📅 Original date posted:2017-06-08\n📝 Original message:I don't normally post here, but I'm sorry, if you don't see those two as\nequal, then I think you have misunderstood the *entire* value proposition\nof cryptocurrencies.\n\nThe state of any cryptocurrency should entirely (and only) be defined by\nits ledger. If the state of the system can be altered outside of the rules\ngoverning its ledger, then the system isn't secure. It doesn't matter\nwhether the people making those changes are the ones that are leading the\nproject or not. An \"irregular state change\" is a fancy term for a bailout.\n\nI'm sure I speak for more than myself in saying that an \"irregular state\nchange\" is equivalent to modifying the underlying ledger. Let's not let\nsemantics keep us from recognizing what actually took place.\n\n-Conner\n\nOn Wed, Jun 7, 2017 at 14:14 Nick Johnson via bitcoin-dev \u003c\nbitcoin-dev at lists.linuxfoundation.org\u003e wrote:\n\n\u003e On Wed, Jun 7, 2017 at 5:27 PM Tao Effect \u003ccontact at taoeffect.com\u003e wrote:\n\u003e\n\u003e\u003e Nick,\n\u003e\u003e\n\u003e\u003e Please don't spread misinformation. Whatever you think of the DAO hard\n\u003e\u003e fork, it's a simple fact that the Ethereum ledger was not edited.\n\u003e\u003e\n\u003e\u003e\n\u003e\u003e This sort of email is unhelpful to this conversation, and it certainly\n\u003e\u003e doesn't help with the perception that Ethereum is nothing but a bunch of\n\u003e\u003e hypocritical Bankers 2.0.\n\u003e\u003e\n\u003e\n\u003e\n\u003e\u003e\n\u003e\u003e Everyone knows you didn't edit Ethereum Classic, but the the hard fork,\n\u003e\u003e which was re-branded as Ethereum, was edited.\n\u003e\u003e\n\u003e\n\u003e That's not what I was suggesting. My point is that the ledger was never\n\u003e edited. An 'irregular state change' was added at a specific block height,\n\u003e but the ledger remains inviolate.\n\u003e\n\u003e I'm sure I don't have to explain the difference between the ledger and the\n\u003e state to you, or why it's significant that the ledger wasn't (and can't be,\n\u003e practically) modified.\n\u003e\n\u003e -Nick\n\u003e\n\u003e\n\u003e\u003e - Greg\n\u003e\u003e\n\u003e\u003e --\n\u003e\u003e Please do not email me anything that you are not comfortable also sharing with\n\u003e\u003e the NSA.\n\u003e\u003e\n\u003e\u003e On Jun 7, 2017, at 6:25 AM, Nick Johnson \u003cnick at ethereum.org\u003e wrote:\n\u003e\u003e\n\u003e\u003e On Wed, Jun 7, 2017 at 12:02 AM Gregory Maxwell via bitcoin-dev \u003c\n\u003e\u003e bitcoin-dev at lists.linuxfoundation.org\u003e wrote:\n\u003e\u003e\n\u003e\u003e\u003e On Tue, Jun 6, 2017 at 10:39 PM, Tao Effect via bitcoin-dev\n\u003e\u003e\u003e \u003cbitcoin-dev at lists.linuxfoundation.org\u003e wrote:\n\u003e\u003e\u003e \u003e I believe the severity of replay attacks is going unvoiced and is not\n\u003e\u003e\u003e \u003e understood within the bitcoin community because of their lack of\n\u003e\u003e\u003e experience\n\u003e\u003e\u003e \u003e with them.\n\u003e\u003e\u003e\n\u003e\u003e\u003e Please don't insult our community-- the issues with replay were\n\u003e\u003e\u003e pointed out by us to Ethereum in advance and were cited specifically\n\u003e\u003e\u003e in prior hardfork discussions long before Ethereum started editing\n\u003e\u003e\u003e their ledger for the economic benefit of its centralized\n\u003e\u003e\u003e administrators.\n\u003e\u003e\n\u003e\u003e\n\u003e\u003e Please don't spread misinformation. Whatever you think of the DAO hard\n\u003e\u003e fork, it's a simple fact that the Ethereum ledger was not edited.\n\u003e\u003e\n\u003e\u003e -Nick Johnson\n\u003e\u003e\n\u003e\u003e\n\u003e\u003e _______________________________________________\n\u003e bitcoin-dev mailing list\n\u003e bitcoin-dev at lists.linuxfoundation.org\n\u003e https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/bitcoin-dev\n\u003e\n-------------- next part --------------\nAn HTML attachment was scrubbed...\nURL: \u003chttp://lists.linuxfoundation.org/pipermail/bitcoin-dev/attachments/20170608/4a1844b0/attachment-0001.html\u003e",
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