What I really like about this model is that it creates the right kind of middle ground between these narratives:
- "Everyone should care deeply about the relays they use and do their own research and preferably pay for them as well
- "Ppl don't care about relays at all, they just want to use an app that works"
Reality is that only the right kind of ppl with incentives will care about relays:
- A community is established by leaders who care the most. They certainly care about the relay and how their dream community can flourish in a sovereign way
- People opt into the community, NOT the relay in the first place. Therefore, the community should be tied to an entity not the relay. So it is just natural to tie it to a pubkey.
What is nostr if not a web of pubkeys? Relays are important means of getting what we want: independent, interoperable communities. Just like in the physical world. Who would care most about road conditions? The leaders of the town or city of course. They want more social and economic action to make their place the best.
Making relays a first class concept for ALL users is a mistake I came to realize. It is premature decentralization with heavy costs that people with common sense should not aim for initially. Yes, we have the *option* to do it. But I see now it is utterly ridiculous to try to build a rube-goldberg machine that fetches events using hundreds of relay-lists. It is a fools errand. It yields an unreliable UX and is wasteful with resources.
The advice to embrace the chaos is getting less funny when real stakes are on the line. You wouldn't want to tell this to your users:
- Didn't receive a message? Embrace the chaos!
- Your Bid on an important Job never arrived? Embrace the chaos!
- Your wallet balance is lower than last time you checked? You know the drill.
- Wanna know how people received your post? Don't try to count anything it's bullshit anyway, just embrace the chaos. (And my app's just gonna be connecting to a thousand relays in the meantime, bro)
It's time to get real and embrace common sense.
Five
npub16p…kfhdw
2025-05-23 17:52:12
in reply to nevent1q…9yqe
Author Public Key
npub16p8v7varqwjes5hak6q7mz6pygqm4pwc6gve4mrned3xs8tz42gq7kfhdwPublished at
2025-05-23 17:52:12Event JSON
{
"id": "402c81e7160cde6ccdd7bc44af7e73f6e9bc440e967d7b820d0aa527b56874e4",
"pubkey": "d04ecf33a303a59852fdb681ed8b412201ba85d8d2199aec73cb62681d62aa90",
"created_at": 1748022732,
"kind": 1,
"tags": [
[
"e",
"9f1021b81f14c98f1d5f94473561b836619e7e6de2717a42fadc11d7bd9f45c4",
"",
"root"
],
[
"e",
"9f1021b81f14c98f1d5f94473561b836619e7e6de2717a42fadc11d7bd9f45c4",
"",
"root"
],
[
"e",
"ff41623f56f963cd1d8d4665ea590de580111310b269d1004f905924e4e6fbad",
"",
"reply"
],
[
"p",
"a9434ee165ed01b286becfc2771ef1705d3537d051b387288898cc00d5c885be"
]
],
"content": "What I really like about this model is that it creates the right kind of middle ground between these narratives:\n- \"Everyone should care deeply about the relays they use and do their own research and preferably pay for them as well\n- \"Ppl don't care about relays at all, they just want to use an app that works\"\n\nReality is that only the right kind of ppl with incentives will care about relays:\n- A community is established by leaders who care the most. They certainly care about the relay and how their dream community can flourish in a sovereign way \n- People opt into the community, NOT the relay in the first place. Therefore, the community should be tied to an entity not the relay. So it is just natural to tie it to a pubkey.\n\nWhat is nostr if not a web of pubkeys? Relays are important means of getting what we want: independent, interoperable communities. Just like in the physical world. Who would care most about road conditions? The leaders of the town or city of course. They want more social and economic action to make their place the best. \n\nMaking relays a first class concept for ALL users is a mistake I came to realize. It is premature decentralization with heavy costs that people with common sense should not aim for initially. Yes, we have the *option* to do it. But I see now it is utterly ridiculous to try to build a rube-goldberg machine that fetches events using hundreds of relay-lists. It is a fools errand. It yields an unreliable UX and is wasteful with resources.\n\nThe advice to embrace the chaos is getting less funny when real stakes are on the line. You wouldn't want to tell this to your users:\n- Didn't receive a message? Embrace the chaos!\n- Your Bid on an important Job never arrived? Embrace the chaos!\n- Your wallet balance is lower than last time you checked? You know the drill.\n- Wanna know how people received your post? Don't try to count anything it's bullshit anyway, just embrace the chaos. (And my app's just gonna be connecting to a thousand relays in the meantime, bro)\n\nIt's time to get real and embrace common sense.",
"sig": "8f242237dfbd96b28678ae310d09366ca2377947567057658d78d551a16ff0eac0b064081aa4c10515dd542e11edfd1492036e9c47c876055e14096afb4df2df"
}