📅 Original date posted:2015-06-27
📝 Original message:Generally agreed w/ all this.
To preserve digital signatures now and in the future, and make mbox
archives actually useful, a minimum modification policy is needed.
On Sat, Jun 27, 2015 at 3:21 PM, grarpamp <grarpamp at gmail.com> wrote:
> On Sun, Jun 21, 2015 at 9:14 PM, Frank Flores <frankf44 at gmail.com> wrote:
> > If you're going to go through the trouble of signing your public emails
> ...
>
> ... then you should also demand that the official archives of your
> favorite lists preserve them and their verifiability in the supposedly
> canonical reference "mbox" format that they distribute.
>
> On Wed, Jun 24, 2015 at 7:47 AM, Wladimir J. van der Laan
> <laanwj at gmail.com> wrote:
> > Subject: [bitcoin-dev] New GPG signing key for Bitcoin Core binary
> releases
>
>
> http://lists.linuxfoundation.org/pipermail/bitcoin-dev/2015-June/009045.html
> http://lists.linuxfoundation.org/pipermail/bitcoin-dev/2015-June.txt.gz
>
> As you can clearly see, both the HTML archives and the "mbox"
> archives have corrupted this message, it will not verify. Do not
> try to say this case is trivial, the problem itself is not trivial,
> it's gratuitous, and it applies to all matching messages... text,
> code, binary inline... that's dangerous.
>
> Do not try to say this corruption prevents spam, it does not.
> Spammers simply subscribe to the list and harvest everything
> efficiently in realtime... no webcrawling overhead, no stale
> addresses. Obfuscation is futile.
>
> This misfeature needs to be disabled.
>
>
>
> On Fri, Jun 19, 2015 at 12:57 AM, Warren Togami Jr. <wtogami at gmail.com>
> wrote:
> > archives will be exported
> > and imported into the new list server
>
> On Tue, Jun 23, 2015 at 2:45 PM, Andy Schroder <info at andyschroder.com>
> wrote:
> > I'm not sure if anyone has submitted a request for gmane
>
> On Sun, Jun 21, 2015 at 5:35 PM, s7r <s7r at sky-ip.org> wrote:
> > Do we have all the archives imported? I run several full nodes and
> > mirrors for open source projects, if you think it's useful, I can
> > provide a mirror for the mail list archives.
>
> Yes... these other mirrors, archives, analysis, journalism, and
> interfaces are useful. However, as it is now, there are no useful
> authoritative sources for them to seed from... they're all corrupt.
> And any subscribed realtime sources, though nice, are subject to
> downtime, administrative and other unrecoverable gaps. Your mirror
> project is a fine idea, you should demand that the pristine historical
> sources be made publicly available. Not just for you, but for everyone.
>
>
>
> On Wed, Jun 17, 2015, grarpamp wrote:
> > ...
>
> As before, the current "mbox" archives are broken and not useful...
>
> a) They corrupt message data, messages are unverifiable, another example...
>
> http://lists.linuxfoundation.org/pipermail/bitcoin-dev/2015-June/009132.html
> http://lists.linuxfoundation.org/pipermail/bitcoin-dev/2015-June.txt.gz
> b) They are missing the minimum set of original headers necessary
> for fully replyable, threadable, sortable, searchable, context
> preserving and direct use by users MUA's in their local environment:
> (Date, From, To, Cc, Subject, Message-ID, In-Reply-To, References)
> c) They do not include attachments (patches, signatures, images, crypto,
> data) that are absolutely necessary to the context and archives
> of all lists. Instead they stupidly throw them away to "web links"
> which results not only in uselessness of the so called "mbox"
> version, but in many thousands of needless fetches by archive
> users and indexers. And hours of wasted work attempting to
> postprocess them into usable form.
> Valuable content lost from the "mbox" files this June alone:
> 418 attachment.html
> 106 attachment.sig
> 6 attachment.jpe
> 4 attachment.png
> 2 attachment.bin
> d) There appear to be at least 15 instances of unescaped '^From '
> in the "mbox". Regeneration with current mailman may fix. One such
> case is here:
>
> http://lists.linuxfoundation.org/pipermail/bitcoin-dev/2014-January/004245.html
>
> http://lists.linuxfoundation.org/pipermail/bitcoin-dev/2014-January.txt.gz
>
>
>
> Please fix all the above mentioned issues by providing the full raw
> archives in regularly updated [gzip/7z] mbox format. The internet
> thanks you :)
>
> Example, compare the "Downloadable version"s here:
> http://lists.linuxfoundation.org/pipermail/bitcoin-dev/
> https://cpunks.org/pipermail/cypherpunks/
> https://cpunks.org/pipermail/cypherpunks/2015-February/006820.html
>
>
>
> On Tue, Jun 23, 2015 at 2:45 PM, Andy Schroder <info at andyschroder.com>
> wrote:
> > Regarding message footers and the subject prefix
>
> Yes, they're also corruptive and space wasting clutter, for and by
> the clueless :( Both of them should be turned off.
> _______________________________________________
> bitcoin-dev mailing list
> bitcoin-dev at lists.linuxfoundation.org
> https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/bitcoin-dev
>
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Jeff Garzik [ARCHIVE] /
npub1kf…f3f58
2023-06-07 15:41:02
in reply to nevent1q…qh2a
Author Public Key
npub1kf0ppcjaguxekg24yx6smgxlu73qn0k8lm0t2wrqc0scpl7u3sgsmf3f58Published at
2023-06-07 15:41:02Event JSON
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"created_at": 1686152462,
"kind": 1,
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"content": "📅 Original date posted:2015-06-27\n📝 Original message:Generally agreed w/ all this.\n\nTo preserve digital signatures now and in the future, and make mbox\narchives actually useful, a minimum modification policy is needed.\n\n\n\nOn Sat, Jun 27, 2015 at 3:21 PM, grarpamp \u003cgrarpamp at gmail.com\u003e wrote:\n\n\u003e On Sun, Jun 21, 2015 at 9:14 PM, Frank Flores \u003cfrankf44 at gmail.com\u003e wrote:\n\u003e \u003e If you're going to go through the trouble of signing your public emails\n\u003e ...\n\u003e\n\u003e ... then you should also demand that the official archives of your\n\u003e favorite lists preserve them and their verifiability in the supposedly\n\u003e canonical reference \"mbox\" format that they distribute.\n\u003e\n\u003e On Wed, Jun 24, 2015 at 7:47 AM, Wladimir J. van der Laan\n\u003e \u003claanwj at gmail.com\u003e wrote:\n\u003e \u003e Subject: [bitcoin-dev] New GPG signing key for Bitcoin Core binary\n\u003e releases\n\u003e\n\u003e\n\u003e http://lists.linuxfoundation.org/pipermail/bitcoin-dev/2015-June/009045.html\n\u003e http://lists.linuxfoundation.org/pipermail/bitcoin-dev/2015-June.txt.gz\n\u003e\n\u003e As you can clearly see, both the HTML archives and the \"mbox\"\n\u003e archives have corrupted this message, it will not verify. Do not\n\u003e try to say this case is trivial, the problem itself is not trivial,\n\u003e it's gratuitous, and it applies to all matching messages... text,\n\u003e code, binary inline... that's dangerous.\n\u003e\n\u003e Do not try to say this corruption prevents spam, it does not.\n\u003e Spammers simply subscribe to the list and harvest everything\n\u003e efficiently in realtime... no webcrawling overhead, no stale\n\u003e addresses. Obfuscation is futile.\n\u003e\n\u003e This misfeature needs to be disabled.\n\u003e\n\u003e\n\u003e\n\u003e On Fri, Jun 19, 2015 at 12:57 AM, Warren Togami Jr. \u003cwtogami at gmail.com\u003e\n\u003e wrote:\n\u003e \u003e archives will be exported\n\u003e \u003e and imported into the new list server\n\u003e\n\u003e On Tue, Jun 23, 2015 at 2:45 PM, Andy Schroder \u003cinfo at andyschroder.com\u003e\n\u003e wrote:\n\u003e \u003e I'm not sure if anyone has submitted a request for gmane\n\u003e\n\u003e On Sun, Jun 21, 2015 at 5:35 PM, s7r \u003cs7r at sky-ip.org\u003e wrote:\n\u003e \u003e Do we have all the archives imported? I run several full nodes and\n\u003e \u003e mirrors for open source projects, if you think it's useful, I can\n\u003e \u003e provide a mirror for the mail list archives.\n\u003e\n\u003e Yes... these other mirrors, archives, analysis, journalism, and\n\u003e interfaces are useful. However, as it is now, there are no useful\n\u003e authoritative sources for them to seed from... they're all corrupt.\n\u003e And any subscribed realtime sources, though nice, are subject to\n\u003e downtime, administrative and other unrecoverable gaps. Your mirror\n\u003e project is a fine idea, you should demand that the pristine historical\n\u003e sources be made publicly available. Not just for you, but for everyone.\n\u003e\n\u003e\n\u003e\n\u003e On Wed, Jun 17, 2015, grarpamp wrote:\n\u003e \u003e ...\n\u003e\n\u003e As before, the current \"mbox\" archives are broken and not useful...\n\u003e\n\u003e a) They corrupt message data, messages are unverifiable, another example...\n\u003e\n\u003e http://lists.linuxfoundation.org/pipermail/bitcoin-dev/2015-June/009132.html\n\u003e http://lists.linuxfoundation.org/pipermail/bitcoin-dev/2015-June.txt.gz\n\u003e b) They are missing the minimum set of original headers necessary\n\u003e for fully replyable, threadable, sortable, searchable, context\n\u003e preserving and direct use by users MUA's in their local environment:\n\u003e (Date, From, To, Cc, Subject, Message-ID, In-Reply-To, References)\n\u003e c) They do not include attachments (patches, signatures, images, crypto,\n\u003e data) that are absolutely necessary to the context and archives\n\u003e of all lists. Instead they stupidly throw them away to \"web links\"\n\u003e which results not only in uselessness of the so called \"mbox\"\n\u003e version, but in many thousands of needless fetches by archive\n\u003e users and indexers. And hours of wasted work attempting to\n\u003e postprocess them into usable form.\n\u003e Valuable content lost from the \"mbox\" files this June alone:\n\u003e 418 attachment.html\n\u003e 106 attachment.sig\n\u003e 6 attachment.jpe\n\u003e 4 attachment.png\n\u003e 2 attachment.bin\n\u003e d) There appear to be at least 15 instances of unescaped '^From '\n\u003e in the \"mbox\". Regeneration with current mailman may fix. One such\n\u003e case is here:\n\u003e\n\u003e http://lists.linuxfoundation.org/pipermail/bitcoin-dev/2014-January/004245.html\n\u003e\n\u003e http://lists.linuxfoundation.org/pipermail/bitcoin-dev/2014-January.txt.gz\n\u003e\n\u003e\n\u003e\n\u003e Please fix all the above mentioned issues by providing the full raw\n\u003e archives in regularly updated [gzip/7z] mbox format. The internet\n\u003e thanks you :)\n\u003e\n\u003e Example, compare the \"Downloadable version\"s here:\n\u003e http://lists.linuxfoundation.org/pipermail/bitcoin-dev/\n\u003e https://cpunks.org/pipermail/cypherpunks/\n\u003e https://cpunks.org/pipermail/cypherpunks/2015-February/006820.html\n\u003e\n\u003e\n\u003e\n\u003e On Tue, Jun 23, 2015 at 2:45 PM, Andy Schroder \u003cinfo at andyschroder.com\u003e\n\u003e wrote:\n\u003e \u003e Regarding message footers and the subject prefix\n\u003e\n\u003e Yes, they're also corruptive and space wasting clutter, for and by\n\u003e the clueless :( Both of them should be turned off.\n\u003e _______________________________________________\n\u003e bitcoin-dev mailing list\n\u003e bitcoin-dev at lists.linuxfoundation.org\n\u003e https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/bitcoin-dev\n\u003e\n-------------- next part --------------\nAn HTML attachment was scrubbed...\nURL: \u003chttp://lists.linuxfoundation.org/pipermail/bitcoin-dev/attachments/20150627/bfb6410d/attachment-0001.html\u003e",
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}