📅 Original date posted:2020-11-23
📝 Original message:Hi Adam,
That's a tricky issue you're trying to tackle.
>and/or use the blockchain for that function, but that is too slow and
expensive, usually
While perhaps not the most easy/practical path to take, it IS possible to
create a custom blockchain for this specific purpose to use as a
censorship-resistant data layer via Blind Merged Mining:
https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/pipermail/bitcoin-dev/2019-December/017534.html
Note that while it's not described in detail in my post, there is a
(slightly suboptimal) way to do it without a soft fork.
And here are more details about the perpetual one-way peg mechanism (needed
to pay for fees without introducing speculation):
https://medium.com/@RubenSomsen/21-million-bitcoins-to-rule-all-sidechains-the-perpetual-one-way-peg-96cb2f8ac302
Cheers,
Ruben
On Mon, Nov 23, 2020 at 1:59 PM AdamISZ via bitcoin-dev <
bitcoin-dev at lists.linuxfoundation.org> wrote:
> ‐‐‐‐‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐‐‐‐‐
> On Monday, 23 November 2020 00:40, AdamISZ via bitcoin-dev <
> bitcoin-dev at lists.linuxfoundation.org> wrote:
>
> > Canvassing opinions/critiques from those working on bitcoin and related
> protocols.
> >
> > See the attached gist for a write-up of an outline of an idea, which is
> conceived for joinmarket but can apply in other scenarios where there is
> market for liquidity and in which privacy is a very high priority (hence
> 'bitcoin fungibility markets' can certainly include coinswap along with
> coinjoin, but possibly other things):
> >
> > https://gist.github.com/AdamISZ/b52704905cdd914ec9dac9fc52b621d6
>
> Greg Maxwell pointed out to me on IRC that this idea doesn't work: there
> is only a receipt on the commitment to the offer (message) from the maker,
> not on the plaintext version, hence there is nothing stopping the maker
> from falsely claiming censorship after not sending the plaintext.
>
> Reflecting on this a bit more, my intuition is that this problem is much
> more difficult than I had hoped; if there is a solution I suspect it
> involves much more sophisticated ideas. Many solutions just end up begging
> the question by presuming the existence of an uncensorable BB in order to
> create a new one; and/or use the blockchain for that function, but that is
> too slow and expensive, usually. I'd be happy to be proved wrong, though :)
>
> waxwing
> _______________________________________________
> bitcoin-dev mailing list
> bitcoin-dev at lists.linuxfoundation.org
> https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/bitcoin-dev
>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://lists.linuxfoundation.org/pipermail/bitcoin-dev/attachments/20201123/32a9a5c5/attachment.html>;
Ruben Somsen [ARCHIVE] /
npub1cn…qyeq0
2023-06-07 18:27:35
in reply to nevent1q…8lsu
Author Public Key
npub1cnrnujx86le38yu2jrt3la0yhewsrh2p2lucakv6mu28x7lm0rsq9qyeq0Published at
2023-06-07 18:27:35Event JSON
{
"id": "24fd0495c8b60f5cd5f51c90d8f7d364b5749408cf73be015f96e77354fa2377",
"pubkey": "c4c73e48c7d7f313938a90d71ff5e4be5d01dd4157f98ed99adf14737bfb78e0",
"created_at": 1686162455,
"kind": 1,
"tags": [
[
"e",
"569370c1ae2c5fa3dde7906e8d657f1e04654d9476ae7fdbdbc1956bc047c28d",
"",
"root"
],
[
"e",
"957bae194ee39067645dadb06c5bff8b5063e2da5468ae7b06dd06a089bc5809",
"",
"reply"
],
[
"p",
"9b3cb9066a41d6c59c090531827defe6138e14f8b94a7802a8a183aa309a4e2b"
]
],
"content": "📅 Original date posted:2020-11-23\n📝 Original message:Hi Adam,\n\nThat's a tricky issue you're trying to tackle.\n\n\u003eand/or use the blockchain for that function, but that is too slow and\nexpensive, usually\n\nWhile perhaps not the most easy/practical path to take, it IS possible to\ncreate a custom blockchain for this specific purpose to use as a\ncensorship-resistant data layer via Blind Merged Mining:\nhttps://lists.linuxfoundation.org/pipermail/bitcoin-dev/2019-December/017534.html\n\nNote that while it's not described in detail in my post, there is a\n(slightly suboptimal) way to do it without a soft fork.\n\nAnd here are more details about the perpetual one-way peg mechanism (needed\nto pay for fees without introducing speculation):\nhttps://medium.com/@RubenSomsen/21-million-bitcoins-to-rule-all-sidechains-the-perpetual-one-way-peg-96cb2f8ac302\n\nCheers,\nRuben\n\nOn Mon, Nov 23, 2020 at 1:59 PM AdamISZ via bitcoin-dev \u003c\nbitcoin-dev at lists.linuxfoundation.org\u003e wrote:\n\n\u003e ‐‐‐‐‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐‐‐‐‐\n\u003e On Monday, 23 November 2020 00:40, AdamISZ via bitcoin-dev \u003c\n\u003e bitcoin-dev at lists.linuxfoundation.org\u003e wrote:\n\u003e\n\u003e \u003e Canvassing opinions/critiques from those working on bitcoin and related\n\u003e protocols.\n\u003e \u003e\n\u003e \u003e See the attached gist for a write-up of an outline of an idea, which is\n\u003e conceived for joinmarket but can apply in other scenarios where there is\n\u003e market for liquidity and in which privacy is a very high priority (hence\n\u003e 'bitcoin fungibility markets' can certainly include coinswap along with\n\u003e coinjoin, but possibly other things):\n\u003e \u003e\n\u003e \u003e https://gist.github.com/AdamISZ/b52704905cdd914ec9dac9fc52b621d6\n\u003e\n\u003e Greg Maxwell pointed out to me on IRC that this idea doesn't work: there\n\u003e is only a receipt on the commitment to the offer (message) from the maker,\n\u003e not on the plaintext version, hence there is nothing stopping the maker\n\u003e from falsely claiming censorship after not sending the plaintext.\n\u003e\n\u003e Reflecting on this a bit more, my intuition is that this problem is much\n\u003e more difficult than I had hoped; if there is a solution I suspect it\n\u003e involves much more sophisticated ideas. Many solutions just end up begging\n\u003e the question by presuming the existence of an uncensorable BB in order to\n\u003e create a new one; and/or use the blockchain for that function, but that is\n\u003e too slow and expensive, usually. I'd be happy to be proved wrong, though :)\n\u003e\n\u003e waxwing\n\u003e _______________________________________________\n\u003e bitcoin-dev mailing list\n\u003e bitcoin-dev at lists.linuxfoundation.org\n\u003e https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/bitcoin-dev\n\u003e\n-------------- next part --------------\nAn HTML attachment was scrubbed...\nURL: \u003chttp://lists.linuxfoundation.org/pipermail/bitcoin-dev/attachments/20201123/32a9a5c5/attachment.html\u003e",
"sig": "17fa794c1216af9bbbcbcf4037875aedcbebb285aca74f17baf5e0a2a09d4131693b6096d671f506dd109a294e2cfa72dfd54b5f8289c2e2b1b96d0b884e9574"
}