📅 Original date posted:2015-06-19
📝 Original message:Benjamin,
Timeframe for network congestion and users experiencing service
degradation => between now and middle of next year.
Timeframe for transaction fees topping block reward fees => many years in
the future, based on current ratio of block reward to fees.
What is the more pressing requirement now? A working ³fee market² or a
reliable, useful payment network that scales without falling over in the
next 2-3 years.
On 19/6/15 4:53 pm, "Benjamin" <benjamin.l.cordes at gmail.com> wrote:
>Yeah, but increasing block-size is not a longterm solution. Necessary
>higher fees are a logical consequence of lower subsidies. Bitcoin was
>basically free to use at the beginning because miners got paid with
>new coins at the expense of those who already hold coins. Eventually
>there needs to be a mechanism which matches supply and demand.
>
>On Fri, Jun 19, 2015 at 11:37 AM, Mike Hearn <mike at plan99.net> wrote:
>>> Or alternatively, fix the reasons why users would have negative
>>> experiences with full blocks
>>
>>
>> It's impossible, Mark. By definition if Bitcoin does not have sufficient
>> capacity for everyone's transactions, some users who were using it will
>>be
>> kicked out to make way for the others. Whether that happens in some
>>kind of
>> stable organised way or (as with the current code) a fairly chaotic way
>> doesn't change the fundamental truth: some users will find their bitcoin
>> savings have become uneconomic to spend.
>>
>> Here's a recent user complaint that provides a preview of coming
>> attractions:
>>
>>
>>https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/39r3bi/breadwallet_asking_me_to
>>_pay_over_10_network_fee/
>>
>>> Hello, I'm just trying to send my small Sarutobi-tips stash (12,159
>>>bits)
>>> onto a paper wallet. When I try to send it, a window pops up stating
>>> "insufficient funds for bitcoin network fee, reduce payment amount by
>>>1,389
>>> bits?" This would be a fee of $0.32 to send my $2.82, leaving me with
>>>$2.50.
>>
>>
>> These sorts of complaints will get more frequent and more extreme in the
>> coming months. I realise that nobody at Blockstream is in the position
>>of
>> running an end user facing service, but many of us are .... and we will
>>be
>> the ones that face the full anger of ordinary users as Bitcoin hits the
>> wall.
>>
>>
>>-------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>-----
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Bitcoin-development mailing list
>> Bitcoin-development at lists.sourceforge.net
>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bitcoin-development
>>
>
>--------------------------------------------------------------------------
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GC [ARCHIVE] /
npub1ff…2qp3d
2023-06-07 15:38:37
in reply to nevent1q…ayw8
Author Public Key
npub1ffc8cszk5wq34nvq78qm7npmmc8wsxg4538k7sy604shwmmrsjgsk2qp3dPublished at
2023-06-07 15:38:37Event JSON
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"content": "📅 Original date posted:2015-06-19\n📝 Original message:Benjamin,\n\nTimeframe for network congestion and users experiencing service\ndegradation =\u003e between now and middle of next year.\n\nTimeframe for transaction fees topping block reward fees =\u003e many years in\nthe future, based on current ratio of block reward to fees.\n\nWhat is the more pressing requirement now? A working ³fee market² or a\nreliable, useful payment network that scales without falling over in the\nnext 2-3 years.\n\nOn 19/6/15 4:53 pm, \"Benjamin\" \u003cbenjamin.l.cordes at gmail.com\u003e wrote:\n\n\u003eYeah, but increasing block-size is not a longterm solution. Necessary\n\u003ehigher fees are a logical consequence of lower subsidies. Bitcoin was\n\u003ebasically free to use at the beginning because miners got paid with\n\u003enew coins at the expense of those who already hold coins. Eventually\n\u003ethere needs to be a mechanism which matches supply and demand.\n\u003e\n\u003eOn Fri, Jun 19, 2015 at 11:37 AM, Mike Hearn \u003cmike at plan99.net\u003e wrote:\n\u003e\u003e\u003e Or alternatively, fix the reasons why users would have negative\n\u003e\u003e\u003e experiences with full blocks\n\u003e\u003e\n\u003e\u003e\n\u003e\u003e It's impossible, Mark. By definition if Bitcoin does not have sufficient\n\u003e\u003e capacity for everyone's transactions, some users who were using it will\n\u003e\u003ebe\n\u003e\u003e kicked out to make way for the others. Whether that happens in some\n\u003e\u003ekind of\n\u003e\u003e stable organised way or (as with the current code) a fairly chaotic way\n\u003e\u003e doesn't change the fundamental truth: some users will find their bitcoin\n\u003e\u003e savings have become uneconomic to spend.\n\u003e\u003e\n\u003e\u003e Here's a recent user complaint that provides a preview of coming\n\u003e\u003e attractions:\n\u003e\u003e\n\u003e\u003e \n\u003e\u003ehttps://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/39r3bi/breadwallet_asking_me_to\n\u003e\u003e_pay_over_10_network_fee/\n\u003e\u003e\n\u003e\u003e\u003e Hello, I'm just trying to send my small Sarutobi-tips stash (12,159\n\u003e\u003e\u003ebits)\n\u003e\u003e\u003e onto a paper wallet. When I try to send it, a window pops up stating\n\u003e\u003e\u003e \"insufficient funds for bitcoin network fee, reduce payment amount by\n\u003e\u003e\u003e1,389\n\u003e\u003e\u003e bits?\" This would be a fee of $0.32 to send my $2.82, leaving me with\n\u003e\u003e\u003e$2.50.\n\u003e\u003e\n\u003e\u003e\n\u003e\u003e These sorts of complaints will get more frequent and more extreme in the\n\u003e\u003e coming months. I realise that nobody at Blockstream is in the position\n\u003e\u003eof\n\u003e\u003e running an end user facing service, but many of us are .... and we will\n\u003e\u003ebe\n\u003e\u003e the ones that face the full anger of ordinary users as Bitcoin hits the\n\u003e\u003e wall.\n\u003e\u003e\n\u003e\u003e \n\u003e\u003e-------------------------------------------------------------------------\n\u003e\u003e-----\n\u003e\u003e\n\u003e\u003e _______________________________________________\n\u003e\u003e Bitcoin-development mailing list\n\u003e\u003e Bitcoin-development at lists.sourceforge.net\n\u003e\u003e https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bitcoin-development\n\u003e\u003e\n\u003e\n\u003e--------------------------------------------------------------------------\n\u003e----\n\u003e_______________________________________________\n\u003eBitcoin-development mailing list\n\u003eBitcoin-development at lists.sourceforge.net\n\u003ehttps://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bitcoin-development",
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