📅 Original date posted:2015-03-11
📝 Original message:I'd like to offer that the best practice for the shared wallet use case
should be multi-device multi-sig. The mobile has a key, the desktop has
a key and a third-party security oracle has a third key. The oracle
would have different security thresholds for countersigning the mobile.
This way you can have the same overall wallet on all devices, but
different security profiles on different keys.
That said, I do agree that mnemonic phrases should be portable, and find
it unfortunate that the ecosystem is failing to standardize on phrase
handling.
On 2015-03-11 04:22 PM, Mike Hearn wrote:
> Users will want to have wallets shared between devices, it's as simple
> as that, especially for mobile/desktop wallets. Trying to stop them from
> doing that by making things gratuitously incompatible isn't the right
> approach: they'll just find workarounds or wallet apps will learn how
> to import seeds from other apps. Better to just explain the risks and
> help people mitigate them.
>
> On Wed, Mar 11, 2015 at 3:57 PM, Aaron Voisine <voisine at gmail.com
> <mailto:voisine at gmail.com>> wrote:
>
> I'm not convinced that wallet seed interoperability is such a great
> thing. There is a wide variability in the quality and security level
> of wallet implementations and platforms. Each new device and wallet
> software a user types their seed into increases their attack surface
> and exposure to flaws. Their security level is reduced to the lowest
> common denominator. I see the need for a "fire exit", certainly, but
> we must also remember that fire exits are potential entrances for
> intruders.
>
> Aaron Voisine
> co-founder and CEO
> breadwallet.com <http://breadwallet.com>;
>
> On Wed, Mar 11, 2015 at 12:46 PM, Gregory Maxwell
> <gmaxwell at gmail.com <mailto:gmaxwell at gmail.com>> wrote:
>
> On Wed, Mar 11, 2015 at 7:24 PM, Ricardo Filipe
> <ricardojdfilipe at gmail.com <mailto:ricardojdfilipe at gmail.com>>
> wrote:
> > i guess you look at the glass half full :)
> > even though what you say is true, we should aim for wallets not to
> > require those instructions, by standardizing these things in BIPs.
> > let's hope bitcoin doesn't fail in standards as our industries have in
> > the past...
>
> There are genuine principled disagreements on how some things should
> be done. There are genuine differences in functionality.
>
> We cannot expect and should not expect complete compatibility.
> If you
> must have complete compatibility: use the same software (or
> maybe not
> even then, considering how poor the forward compatibility of some
> things has been..).
>
> What we can hope to do, and I think the best we can hope to do,
> is to
> minimize the amount of gratuitous incompatibility and reduce the
> amount of outright flawed constructions (so if there are choices
> which
> must be made, they're at least choices among relatively good
> options).
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Dive into the World of Parallel Programming The Go Parallel
> Website, sponsored
> by Intel and developed in partnership with Slashdot Media, is
> your hub for all
> things parallel software development, from weekly thought
> leadership blogs to
> news, videos, case studies, tutorials and more. Take a look and
> join the
> conversation now. http://goparallel.sourceforge.net/
> _______________________________________________
> Bitcoin-development mailing list
> Bitcoin-development at lists.sourceforge.net
> <mailto:Bitcoin-development at lists.sourceforge.net>
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bitcoin-development
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Dive into the World of Parallel Programming The Go Parallel Website,
> sponsored
> by Intel and developed in partnership with Slashdot Media, is your
> hub for all
> things parallel software development, from weekly thought leadership
> blogs to
> news, videos, case studies, tutorials and more. Take a look and join the
> conversation now. http://goparallel.sourceforge.net/
> _______________________________________________
> Bitcoin-development mailing list
> Bitcoin-development at lists.sourceforge.net
> <mailto:Bitcoin-development at lists.sourceforge.net>
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bitcoin-development
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Dive into the World of Parallel Programming The Go Parallel Website, sponsored
> by Intel and developed in partnership with Slashdot Media, is your hub for all
> things parallel software development, from weekly thought leadership blogs to
> news, videos, case studies, tutorials and more. Take a look and join the
> conversation now. http://goparallel.sourceforge.net/
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Bitcoin-development mailing list
> Bitcoin-development at lists.sourceforge.net
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bitcoin-development
>
--
devrandom / Miron
devrandom [ARCHIVE] /
npub1a0…yuuph
2023-06-07 15:31:28
in reply to nevent1q…g5zj
Author Public Key
npub1a04k8w0sg5trcey0tkz04maryv3q76yre2vqj8yrr4lfmf3m999qtyuuphPublished at
2023-06-07 15:31:28Event JSON
{
"id": "40c9169f009185768ed685f6770ec2dc31c4386eae717c571372a07d278e7ccc",
"pubkey": "ebeb63b9f045163c648f5d84faefa323220f6883ca98091c831d7e9da63b294a",
"created_at": 1686151888,
"kind": 1,
"tags": [
[
"e",
"bf192ab1459041905386f8a0c7782f07de04af2932326a4e49fe0d6ce14ed93c",
"",
"root"
],
[
"e",
"36830f58a50ba5ded02321ec0fde7f9911c7853a624aaa9dd3caa8903d251c67",
"",
"reply"
],
[
"p",
"f2c95df3766562e3b96b79a0254881c59e8639f23987846961cf55412a77f6f2"
]
],
"content": "📅 Original date posted:2015-03-11\n📝 Original message:I'd like to offer that the best practice for the shared wallet use case\nshould be multi-device multi-sig. The mobile has a key, the desktop has\na key and a third-party security oracle has a third key. The oracle\nwould have different security thresholds for countersigning the mobile.\n\nThis way you can have the same overall wallet on all devices, but\ndifferent security profiles on different keys.\n\nThat said, I do agree that mnemonic phrases should be portable, and find\nit unfortunate that the ecosystem is failing to standardize on phrase\nhandling.\n\nOn 2015-03-11 04:22 PM, Mike Hearn wrote:\n\u003e Users will want to have wallets shared between devices, it's as simple\n\u003e as that, especially for mobile/desktop wallets. Trying to stop them from\n\u003e doing that by making things gratuitously incompatible isn't the right\n\u003e approach: they'll just find workarounds or wallet apps will learn how\n\u003e to import seeds from other apps. Better to just explain the risks and\n\u003e help people mitigate them.\n\u003e \n\u003e On Wed, Mar 11, 2015 at 3:57 PM, Aaron Voisine \u003cvoisine at gmail.com\n\u003e \u003cmailto:voisine at gmail.com\u003e\u003e wrote:\n\u003e \n\u003e I'm not convinced that wallet seed interoperability is such a great\n\u003e thing. There is a wide variability in the quality and security level\n\u003e of wallet implementations and platforms. Each new device and wallet\n\u003e software a user types their seed into increases their attack surface\n\u003e and exposure to flaws. Their security level is reduced to the lowest\n\u003e common denominator. I see the need for a \"fire exit\", certainly, but\n\u003e we must also remember that fire exits are potential entrances for\n\u003e intruders.\n\u003e \n\u003e Aaron Voisine\n\u003e co-founder and CEO\n\u003e breadwallet.com \u003chttp://breadwallet.com\u003e\n\u003e \n\u003e On Wed, Mar 11, 2015 at 12:46 PM, Gregory Maxwell\n\u003e \u003cgmaxwell at gmail.com \u003cmailto:gmaxwell at gmail.com\u003e\u003e wrote:\n\u003e \n\u003e On Wed, Mar 11, 2015 at 7:24 PM, Ricardo Filipe\n\u003e \u003cricardojdfilipe at gmail.com \u003cmailto:ricardojdfilipe at gmail.com\u003e\u003e\n\u003e wrote:\n\u003e \u003e i guess you look at the glass half full :)\n\u003e \u003e even though what you say is true, we should aim for wallets not to\n\u003e \u003e require those instructions, by standardizing these things in BIPs.\n\u003e \u003e let's hope bitcoin doesn't fail in standards as our industries have in\n\u003e \u003e the past...\n\u003e \n\u003e There are genuine principled disagreements on how some things should\n\u003e be done. There are genuine differences in functionality.\n\u003e \n\u003e We cannot expect and should not expect complete compatibility.\n\u003e If you\n\u003e must have complete compatibility: use the same software (or\n\u003e maybe not\n\u003e even then, considering how poor the forward compatibility of some\n\u003e things has been..).\n\u003e \n\u003e What we can hope to do, and I think the best we can hope to do,\n\u003e is to\n\u003e minimize the amount of gratuitous incompatibility and reduce the\n\u003e amount of outright flawed constructions (so if there are choices\n\u003e which\n\u003e must be made, they're at least choices among relatively good\n\u003e options).\n\u003e \n\u003e ------------------------------------------------------------------------------\n\u003e Dive into the World of Parallel Programming The Go Parallel\n\u003e Website, sponsored\n\u003e by Intel and developed in partnership with Slashdot Media, is\n\u003e your hub for all\n\u003e things parallel software development, from weekly thought\n\u003e leadership blogs to\n\u003e news, videos, case studies, tutorials and more. Take a look and\n\u003e join the\n\u003e conversation now. http://goparallel.sourceforge.net/\n\u003e _______________________________________________\n\u003e Bitcoin-development mailing list\n\u003e Bitcoin-development at lists.sourceforge.net\n\u003e \u003cmailto:Bitcoin-development at lists.sourceforge.net\u003e\n\u003e https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bitcoin-development\n\u003e \n\u003e \n\u003e \n\u003e ------------------------------------------------------------------------------\n\u003e Dive into the World of Parallel Programming The Go Parallel Website,\n\u003e sponsored\n\u003e by Intel and developed in partnership with Slashdot Media, is your\n\u003e hub for all\n\u003e things parallel software development, from weekly thought leadership\n\u003e blogs to\n\u003e news, videos, case studies, tutorials and more. Take a look and join the\n\u003e conversation now. http://goparallel.sourceforge.net/\n\u003e _______________________________________________\n\u003e Bitcoin-development mailing list\n\u003e Bitcoin-development at lists.sourceforge.net\n\u003e \u003cmailto:Bitcoin-development at lists.sourceforge.net\u003e\n\u003e https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bitcoin-development\n\u003e \n\u003e \n\u003e \n\u003e \n\u003e ------------------------------------------------------------------------------\n\u003e Dive into the World of Parallel Programming The Go Parallel Website, sponsored\n\u003e by Intel and developed in partnership with Slashdot Media, is your hub for all\n\u003e things parallel software development, from weekly thought leadership blogs to\n\u003e news, videos, case studies, tutorials and more. Take a look and join the \n\u003e conversation now. http://goparallel.sourceforge.net/\n\u003e \n\u003e \n\u003e \n\u003e _______________________________________________\n\u003e Bitcoin-development mailing list\n\u003e Bitcoin-development at lists.sourceforge.net\n\u003e https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bitcoin-development\n\u003e \n\n-- \ndevrandom / Miron",
"sig": "9975b03d3d141ef7e384383d3493c9caa652a3c6fa4abb93365864991cb4ae991e8ec4d82ec6e726871d5f08e3b477057a5af8ae81b9365c64cdbebd182bcc86"
}