📅 Original date posted:2011-08-25
🗒️ Summary of this message: Discussion about implementing multisign transactions for Bitcoin, including the possibility of using escrow addresses and the importance of testing various use cases.
📝 Original message:On Thu, Aug 25, 2011 at 3:39 AM, Michael Grønager <gronager at ceptacle.com> wrote:
the customer to bypass the clerk and have 3 key addresses, or could we
just leave it to the/a client to implement the multisign transaction
after the money has been received - as a transfer to a safe? This
would greatly simplify the problem and cover the vast majority of use
cases. Not covered in this is huge single transfers where the intruder
of a single key system finds it profitable to reveal their intrusion
by grabbing the entire wallet.
Obviously these things don't need to be hard coupled, since they're
useful independently. But I don't agree with the premise that being
able to pay directly into an escrow using an address isn't essential
at least as an eventual feature.
The bank analogy falls down because in our threat model people are
replacing the bank teller with a convincing facsimile (malware turning
your computer against you). Funds can be stolen in a microsecond, so
any exposure isn't good.
Again, I'm not arguing to delay anything— just pointing out that the
ability to have usable addresses (they can be long) that encode a
couple escrow destination.
Perhaps just an address type that can encode any payment script? User
provides the inputs, sets the outputs plus and additional outputs, and
signs. Client refuses to pay to an address if the resulting
transaction fails IsStandard.
On Thu, Aug 25, 2011 at 1:18 PM, Gavin Andresen <gavinandresen at gmail.com> wrote:
> 2) How often will the 1-of-3 and 3-of-3 cases be used? I included them
> just for completeness, but perhaps they should be dropped for now so
> there is less code to write and test. I just don't imagine there are
> many cases where you have exactly three parties and 1-of-3 or 3-of-3
> are required to spend.
3-of-3 in particular seems somewhat important to me (group trust
accounts). I'd really rather not drop use cases unless we're not
confident that they can't be tested sufficiently simply because it'll
just mean another cycle of testing later someday to test them and,
honestly, a more uphill argument as the usecases get narrower and
narrower.
I'll spend some cycles testing whatever cases make it in.
Gregory Maxwell [ARCHIVE] /
npub1f2…crwet
2023-06-07 02:18:32
in reply to nevent1q…ldx6
Author Public Key
npub1f2nvlx49er5c7sqa43src6ssyp6snd4qwvtkwm5avc2l84cs84esecrwetPublished at
2023-06-07 02:18:32Event JSON
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"content": "📅 Original date posted:2011-08-25\n🗒️ Summary of this message: Discussion about implementing multisign transactions for Bitcoin, including the possibility of using escrow addresses and the importance of testing various use cases.\n📝 Original message:On Thu, Aug 25, 2011 at 3:39 AM, Michael Grønager \u003cgronager at ceptacle.com\u003e wrote:\nthe customer to bypass the clerk and have 3 key addresses, or could we\njust leave it to the/a client to implement the multisign transaction\nafter the money has been received - as a transfer to a safe? This\nwould greatly simplify the problem and cover the vast majority of use\ncases. Not covered in this is huge single transfers where the intruder\nof a single key system finds it profitable to reveal their intrusion\nby grabbing the entire wallet.\n\nObviously these things don't need to be hard coupled, since they're\nuseful independently. But I don't agree with the premise that being\nable to pay directly into an escrow using an address isn't essential\nat least as an eventual feature.\n\nThe bank analogy falls down because in our threat model people are\nreplacing the bank teller with a convincing facsimile (malware turning\nyour computer against you). Funds can be stolen in a microsecond, so\nany exposure isn't good.\n\nAgain, I'm not arguing to delay anything— just pointing out that the\nability to have usable addresses (they can be long) that encode a\ncouple escrow destination.\n\nPerhaps just an address type that can encode any payment script? User\nprovides the inputs, sets the outputs plus and additional outputs, and\nsigns. Client refuses to pay to an address if the resulting\ntransaction fails IsStandard.\n\nOn Thu, Aug 25, 2011 at 1:18 PM, Gavin Andresen \u003cgavinandresen at gmail.com\u003e wrote:\n\u003e 2) How often will the 1-of-3 and 3-of-3 cases be used? I included them\n\u003e just for completeness, but perhaps they should be dropped for now so\n\u003e there is less code to write and test. I just don't imagine there are\n\u003e many cases where you have exactly three parties and 1-of-3 or 3-of-3\n\u003e are required to spend.\n\n3-of-3 in particular seems somewhat important to me (group trust\naccounts). I'd really rather not drop use cases unless we're not\nconfident that they can't be tested sufficiently simply because it'll\njust mean another cycle of testing later someday to test them and,\nhonestly, a more uphill argument as the usecases get narrower and\nnarrower.\n\nI'll spend some cycles testing whatever cases make it in.",
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