📅 Original date posted:2014-09-23
📝 Original message:Yes, we sort the keys at each address as well. But this isn't about key
sorting, it's about assigning each device a different branch of the BIP 32
tree to avoid accidental address re use and to make it self evident which
devices were used for each transaction in the overall wallet history. I
only suggested sorting the root public keys as a way to assign which
internal/external pair of chains the device should use.
@Justus... Looking at the links you sent I'm not clear how it is related.
And naming it "key voting pools" seems unrelated to why we are proposing
this scheme. I'll need more than naked links to understand (I'm not saying
it isn't related, I'm just not seeing the connection)
-Alan
Sent from my overpriced smartphone
On Sep 23, 2014 2:25 PM, "Vitalik Buterin" <v at buterin.com> wrote:
> Have you looked at how Coinvault does it? They have a similar setup, but
> sort the pubkeys at each address.
>
> On Tue, Sep 23, 2014 at 1:09 PM, <
> bitcoin-development-request at lists.sourceforge.net> wrote:
>
>> Send Bitcoin-development mailing list submissions to
>> bitcoin-development at lists.sourceforge.net
>>
>> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bitcoin-development
>> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
>> bitcoin-development-request at lists.sourceforge.net
>>
>> You can reach the person managing the list at
>> bitcoin-development-owner at lists.sourceforge.net
>>
>> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
>> than "Re: Contents of Bitcoin-development digest..."
>>
>>
>> Today's Topics:
>>
>> 1. Re: Proposal: "No-Collision" mode for Multisig BIP32 Wallets
>> (Justus Ranvier)
>> 2. Re: Proposal: "No-Collision" mode for Multisig BIP32 Wallets
>> (Alan Reiner)
>> 3. Re: Proposal: "No-Collision" mode for Multisig BIP32 Wallets
>> (Justus Ranvier)
>>
>>
>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 1
>> Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2014 16:37:20 +0000
>> From: Justus Ranvier <justus at monetas.net>
>> Subject: Re: [Bitcoin-development] Proposal: "No-Collision" mode for
>> Multisig BIP32 Wallets
>> To: bitcoin-development at lists.sourceforge.net
>> Message-ID: <5421A1C0.6080605 at monetas.net>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>>
>> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
>> Hash: SHA256
>>
>> On 09/23/2014 04:16 PM, Alan Reiner wrote:
>> > P.S. -- "No-Collision Mode" is not a great name. Happy to take
>> > suggestions for changing it.
>>
>> I'd call it a "voting pool wallet", since that was the original
>> application for this arrangement.
>>
>> Would be nice if you'd at least mention our work, since we did share
>> it with you back in January and have been publicly documenting it ever
>> since.
>>
>> Or does the fact that we're implementing it in btcwallet mean what
>> we're working on is unmentionable here?
>>
>> - --
>> Justus Ranvier | Monetas <http://monetas.net/>;
>> <mailto:justus at monetas.net> | Public key ID : C3F7BB2638450DB5
>> | BM-2cTepVtZ6AyJAs2Y8LpcvZB8KbdaWLwKqc
>> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
>>
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>> =t/xp
>> -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
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>> ------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 2
>> Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2014 12:48:34 -0400
>> From: Alan Reiner <etotheipi at gmail.com>
>> Subject: Re: [Bitcoin-development] Proposal: "No-Collision" mode for
>> Multisig BIP32 Wallets
>> To: bitcoin-development at lists.sourceforge.net
>> Message-ID: <5421A462.6030205 at gmail.com>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
>>
>>
>> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
>> Hash: SHA1
>>
>> On 09/23/2014 12:37 PM, Justus Ranvier wrote:
>> > Would be nice if you'd at least mention our work, since we did share
>> > it with you back in January and have been publicly documenting it ever
>> > since.
>> >
>> > Or does the fact that we're implementing it in btcwallet mean what
>> > we're working on is unmentionable here?
>> >
>>
>> Please don't assume poor intentions or sneaky motives. I get a lot of
>> emails from a lot of people about a lot of things. Nine months ago was
>> an eternity in this world, and it can't be ruled out that I simply forgot.
>>
>> I have no problem giving credit where it is due, and I mentioned in my
>> first email that I wasn't sure if my stuff was original. Please
>> recap/link it here so that it can be part of this discussion.
>>
>> - -Alan
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>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 3
>> Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2014 17:07:58 +0000
>> From: Justus Ranvier <justus at monetas.net>
>> Subject: Re: [Bitcoin-development] Proposal: "No-Collision" mode for
>> Multisig BIP32 Wallets
>> To: bitcoin-development at lists.sourceforge.net
>> Message-ID: <5421A8EE.4060300 at monetas.net>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>>
>> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
>> Hash: SHA256
>>
>> On 09/23/2014 04:48 PM, Alan Reiner wrote:
>> > Please recap/link it here so that it can be part of this
>> > discussion.
>>
>> http://sourceforge.net/p/bitcoin/mailman/message/32736455/
>>
>> http://opentransactions.org/wiki/index.php/Deposit_Address_(voting_pools)
>>
>> Currently being implemented here:
>>
>> https://github.com/monetas/btcwallet/commits/vp
>>
>> - --
>>
>> Really what's so annoying is how the BIP numbering process is handled in
>> such a way that proposals can be silently pigeonholed.
>>
>> Especially so in the case of an *informational* BIP which requires no
>> action on anyone's part (except for not using the same BIP43 purpose
>> code).
>>
>> We resolved this by changing the naming scheme for our proposals, and
>> their associated purpose codes, to not rely on centrally-allocated
>> numbers.
>>
>> https://github.com/Open-Transactions/rfc/tree/master/bips
>>
>> - --
>> Justus Ranvier | Monetas <http://monetas.net/>;
>> <mailto:justus at monetas.net> | Public key ID : C3F7BB2638450DB5
>> | BM-2cTepVtZ6AyJAs2Y8LpcvZB8KbdaWLwKqc
>> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
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Alan Reiner [ARCHIVE] /
npub1sm…mnq7h
2023-06-07 15:25:54
in reply to nevent1q…fhqw
Author Public Key
npub1sm6zhjmk5scuz294jmpkw99wwwjzetjgwp4fu4gn6utqgdz87hkqamnq7hPublished at
2023-06-07 15:25:54Event JSON
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"content": "📅 Original date posted:2014-09-23\n📝 Original message:Yes, we sort the keys at each address as well. But this isn't about key\nsorting, it's about assigning each device a different branch of the BIP 32\ntree to avoid accidental address re use and to make it self evident which\ndevices were used for each transaction in the overall wallet history. I\nonly suggested sorting the root public keys as a way to assign which\ninternal/external pair of chains the device should use.\n\n@Justus... Looking at the links you sent I'm not clear how it is related.\nAnd naming it \"key voting pools\" seems unrelated to why we are proposing\nthis scheme. I'll need more than naked links to understand (I'm not saying\nit isn't related, I'm just not seeing the connection)\n\n-Alan\n\nSent from my overpriced smartphone\nOn Sep 23, 2014 2:25 PM, \"Vitalik Buterin\" \u003cv at buterin.com\u003e wrote:\n\n\u003e Have you looked at how Coinvault does it? They have a similar setup, but\n\u003e sort the pubkeys at each address.\n\u003e\n\u003e On Tue, Sep 23, 2014 at 1:09 PM, \u003c\n\u003e bitcoin-development-request at lists.sourceforge.net\u003e wrote:\n\u003e\n\u003e\u003e Send Bitcoin-development mailing list submissions to\n\u003e\u003e bitcoin-development at lists.sourceforge.net\n\u003e\u003e\n\u003e\u003e To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit\n\u003e\u003e https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bitcoin-development\n\u003e\u003e or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to\n\u003e\u003e bitcoin-development-request at lists.sourceforge.net\n\u003e\u003e\n\u003e\u003e You can reach the person managing the list at\n\u003e\u003e bitcoin-development-owner at lists.sourceforge.net\n\u003e\u003e\n\u003e\u003e When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific\n\u003e\u003e than \"Re: Contents of Bitcoin-development digest...\"\n\u003e\u003e\n\u003e\u003e\n\u003e\u003e Today's Topics:\n\u003e\u003e\n\u003e\u003e 1. Re: Proposal: \"No-Collision\" mode for Multisig BIP32 Wallets\n\u003e\u003e (Justus Ranvier)\n\u003e\u003e 2. Re: Proposal: \"No-Collision\" mode for Multisig BIP32 Wallets\n\u003e\u003e (Alan Reiner)\n\u003e\u003e 3. Re: Proposal: \"No-Collision\" mode for Multisig BIP32 Wallets\n\u003e\u003e (Justus Ranvier)\n\u003e\u003e\n\u003e\u003e\n\u003e\u003e ----------------------------------------------------------------------\n\u003e\u003e\n\u003e\u003e Message: 1\n\u003e\u003e Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2014 16:37:20 +0000\n\u003e\u003e From: Justus Ranvier \u003cjustus at monetas.net\u003e\n\u003e\u003e Subject: Re: [Bitcoin-development] Proposal: \"No-Collision\" mode for\n\u003e\u003e Multisig BIP32 Wallets\n\u003e\u003e To: bitcoin-development at lists.sourceforge.net\n\u003e\u003e Message-ID: \u003c5421A1C0.6080605 at monetas.net\u003e\n\u003e\u003e Content-Type: text/plain; charset=\"utf-8\"\n\u003e\u003e\n\u003e\u003e -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----\n\u003e\u003e Hash: SHA256\n\u003e\u003e\n\u003e\u003e On 09/23/2014 04:16 PM, Alan Reiner wrote:\n\u003e\u003e \u003e P.S. -- \"No-Collision Mode\" is not a great name. Happy to take\n\u003e\u003e \u003e suggestions for changing it.\n\u003e\u003e\n\u003e\u003e I'd call it a \"voting pool wallet\", since that was the original\n\u003e\u003e application for this arrangement.\n\u003e\u003e\n\u003e\u003e Would be nice if you'd at least mention our work, since we did share\n\u003e\u003e it with you back in January and have been publicly documenting it ever\n\u003e\u003e since.\n\u003e\u003e\n\u003e\u003e Or does the fact that we're implementing it in btcwallet mean what\n\u003e\u003e we're working on is unmentionable here?\n\u003e\u003e\n\u003e\u003e - --\n\u003e\u003e Justus Ranvier | Monetas \u003chttp://monetas.net/\u003e\n\u003e\u003e \u003cmailto:justus at monetas.net\u003e | Public key ID : C3F7BB2638450DB5\n\u003e\u003e | BM-2cTepVtZ6AyJAs2Y8LpcvZB8KbdaWLwKqc\n\u003e\u003e -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----\n\u003e\u003e\n\u003e\u003e iQEcBAEBCAAGBQJUIaHAAAoJEMP3uyY4RQ21nwoH/3MYi9JibblZYmSOvCT1vJrN\n\u003e\u003e Ih+Q2WNumIAI+Y9bh4bBgLuhnG5lXyHedhYEUW+mfuwGiX+92Uc47nwaWED2/Lte\n\u003e\u003e 4Zk/KZnwLifdWCgKLdGpW6mzksRiOaVyU4vV5JchVOrGZZ2zYNIq+NcChtCph7Y5\n\u003e\u003e L202ReAG+1dfSpp4rFckuv7pTVjNcrq89UN1tJFDNQdxzIRd7bwoeCuvyFurZagB\n\u003e\u003e 88bNiOl0BI3e090WC+CWmbC6BfqJiicn/d0gp/agW01wy7CVbLypPPTKmYqt3+54\n\u003e\u003e msLUgaRHcbjuyKqu8HMHpYtgYVSNFg2q+U4SgmEepzPAkQ97khbduqA6i1B0ULM=\n\u003e\u003e =t/xp\n\u003e\u003e -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----\n\u003e\u003e -------------- next part --------------\n\u003e\u003e A non-text attachment was scrubbed...\n\u003e\u003e Name: 0x38450DB5.asc\n\u003e\u003e Type: application/pgp-keys\n\u003e\u003e Size: 14046 bytes\n\u003e\u003e Desc: not available\n\u003e\u003e\n\u003e\u003e ------------------------------\n\u003e\u003e\n\u003e\u003e Message: 2\n\u003e\u003e Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2014 12:48:34 -0400\n\u003e\u003e From: Alan Reiner \u003cetotheipi at gmail.com\u003e\n\u003e\u003e Subject: Re: [Bitcoin-development] Proposal: \"No-Collision\" mode for\n\u003e\u003e Multisig BIP32 Wallets\n\u003e\u003e To: bitcoin-development at lists.sourceforge.net\n\u003e\u003e Message-ID: \u003c5421A462.6030205 at gmail.com\u003e\n\u003e\u003e Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1\n\u003e\u003e\n\u003e\u003e\n\u003e\u003e -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----\n\u003e\u003e Hash: SHA1\n\u003e\u003e\n\u003e\u003e On 09/23/2014 12:37 PM, Justus Ranvier wrote:\n\u003e\u003e \u003e Would be nice if you'd at least mention our work, since we did share\n\u003e\u003e \u003e it with you back in January and have been publicly documenting it ever\n\u003e\u003e \u003e since.\n\u003e\u003e \u003e\n\u003e\u003e \u003e Or does the fact that we're implementing it in btcwallet mean what\n\u003e\u003e \u003e we're working on is unmentionable here?\n\u003e\u003e \u003e\n\u003e\u003e\n\u003e\u003e Please don't assume poor intentions or sneaky motives. I get a lot of\n\u003e\u003e emails from a lot of people about a lot of things. Nine months ago was\n\u003e\u003e an eternity in this world, and it can't be ruled out that I simply forgot.\n\u003e\u003e\n\u003e\u003e I have no problem giving credit where it is due, and I mentioned in my\n\u003e\u003e first email that I wasn't sure if my stuff was original. Please\n\u003e\u003e recap/link it here so that it can be part of this discussion.\n\u003e\u003e\n\u003e\u003e - -Alan\n\u003e\u003e -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----\n\u003e\u003e Version: GnuPG v1\n\u003e\u003e\n\u003e\u003e iQIcBAEBAgAGBQJUIaRiAAoJEBHe6b77WWmFcBgP/2IiQWda5diBIrd8MjbtYz/X\n\u003e\u003e pF+B1zOipClil151pKN5h9f4CI75qwSBSG6pUS+QH1lCz97nr5AoVYV5SAaRzv0z\n\u003e\u003e L9Bz0PiHJFHd4IRbfuFqlPZB8mw2TMD7QWJx/1U+WmpnYYOGsUeJn25psIVZSRTU\n\u003e\u003e FTCsmYrA4cGZ4bZoUKI/eiXrHao8rm/zQ7QHKOMSFWZT57sNea67vlxPXKu+AkmK\n\u003e\u003e nEYa4hD0kD7/R/TrNcmRmOlmbqCnyjICd/yp8Lj26CdHPv3PAvaxUwSX3VhWPbdc\n\u003e\u003e UOiGeo+lXqRnBVpwMd+k7oFddwrc2k9ISRdUVsU86z3JdAXKl/dLS5UoOtfC1JA9\n\u003e\u003e m90TuRtq4QuuzjLF3brI9FthuHNowA//qaVfjo/AYgsKy15td9UBtFbt4E9w263M\n\u003e\u003e NiFEmFkXfbE1JmIvmPG3AQEEdQ1/nmWiN5UcLrBfauEHMDQ1fGd89A8IBpus7bWM\n\u003e\u003e kYXboW3E9RBN4lB6OdyYU4AuH0YQhZodmry4iElMPox/tclmNiaeqDR8UYhD5BMd\n\u003e\u003e eQN9zAALyR1IY1167Ki/abVfWVf5jF7b0Eeu/wAfwcble3sCFrvWWAwzHjNi3GjY\n\u003e\u003e gNfy1eDTbwLj2M63QbtB+YqzQBZx3+SY4euGKYQ1s1CVV9ibAFI52oxeMhwzVOWF\n\u003e\u003e ofeDK5BPL8H+5L3tk+1o\n\u003e\u003e =tX2n\n\u003e\u003e -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----\n\u003e\u003e\n\u003e\u003e\n\u003e\u003e\n\u003e\u003e\n\u003e\u003e\n\u003e\u003e ------------------------------\n\u003e\u003e\n\u003e\u003e Message: 3\n\u003e\u003e Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2014 17:07:58 +0000\n\u003e\u003e From: Justus Ranvier \u003cjustus at monetas.net\u003e\n\u003e\u003e Subject: Re: [Bitcoin-development] Proposal: \"No-Collision\" mode for\n\u003e\u003e Multisig BIP32 Wallets\n\u003e\u003e To: bitcoin-development at lists.sourceforge.net\n\u003e\u003e Message-ID: \u003c5421A8EE.4060300 at monetas.net\u003e\n\u003e\u003e Content-Type: text/plain; charset=\"utf-8\"\n\u003e\u003e\n\u003e\u003e -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----\n\u003e\u003e Hash: SHA256\n\u003e\u003e\n\u003e\u003e On 09/23/2014 04:48 PM, Alan Reiner wrote:\n\u003e\u003e \u003e Please recap/link it here so that it can be part of this\n\u003e\u003e \u003e discussion.\n\u003e\u003e\n\u003e\u003e http://sourceforge.net/p/bitcoin/mailman/message/32736455/\n\u003e\u003e\n\u003e\u003e http://opentransactions.org/wiki/index.php/Deposit_Address_(voting_pools)\n\u003e\u003e\n\u003e\u003e Currently being implemented here:\n\u003e\u003e\n\u003e\u003e https://github.com/monetas/btcwallet/commits/vp\n\u003e\u003e\n\u003e\u003e - --\n\u003e\u003e\n\u003e\u003e Really what's so annoying is how the BIP numbering process is handled in\n\u003e\u003e such a way that proposals can be silently pigeonholed.\n\u003e\u003e\n\u003e\u003e Especially so in the case of an *informational* BIP which requires no\n\u003e\u003e action on anyone's part (except for not using the same BIP43 purpose\n\u003e\u003e code).\n\u003e\u003e\n\u003e\u003e We resolved this by changing the naming scheme for our proposals, and\n\u003e\u003e their associated purpose codes, to not rely on centrally-allocated\n\u003e\u003e numbers.\n\u003e\u003e\n\u003e\u003e https://github.com/Open-Transactions/rfc/tree/master/bips\n\u003e\u003e\n\u003e\u003e - --\n\u003e\u003e Justus Ranvier | Monetas \u003chttp://monetas.net/\u003e\n\u003e\u003e \u003cmailto:justus at monetas.net\u003e | Public key ID : C3F7BB2638450DB5\n\u003e\u003e | BM-2cTepVtZ6AyJAs2Y8LpcvZB8KbdaWLwKqc\n\u003e\u003e -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----\n\u003e\u003e\n\u003e\u003e iQEcBAEBCAAGBQJUIajuAAoJEMP3uyY4RQ215dQH/1GNOmZd19/e2Ys7MNFx0gqz\n\u003e\u003e rDmTFBylU3lhJrMY4CDd4Duq5+2U7HgaovqgX8UqxquHWLQUwEzZLqdEPCifLg0c\n\u003e\u003e d/u90cRlClFAaOxPh4HV2/3aZoS2R27N+ZjOfziW7RZySBP/2fMt4/ra+SPbkcAQ\n\u003e\u003e oeplYgqMRDqW52C/o2zm4y4yb0TJPS+lzSNM+JfxHSPRyY55l0KzLJfUNz1RSOze\n\u003e\u003e A8UAwdsLiJROKPKiSrQcqFOejPV7uqSPh10ukm/AI0k8TbvX8ffGQ083394M9IuE\n\u003e\u003e DB/1eyeLQVP5+lQMWNrTHk3BQ75XBEDJoSukaRENcqxtHV2m1JzTWoS2CQBXi2M=\n\u003e\u003e =TwI3\n\u003e\u003e -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----\n\u003e\u003e -------------- next part --------------\n\u003e\u003e A non-text attachment was scrubbed...\n\u003e\u003e Name: 0x38450DB5.asc\n\u003e\u003e Type: application/pgp-keys\n\u003e\u003e Size: 14046 bytes\n\u003e\u003e Desc: not available\n\u003e\u003e\n\u003e\u003e ------------------------------\n\u003e\u003e\n\u003e\u003e\n\u003e\u003e ------------------------------------------------------------------------------\n\u003e\u003e Meet PCI DSS 3.0 Compliance Requirements with EventLog Analyzer\n\u003e\u003e Achieve PCI DSS 3.0 Compliant Status with Out-of-the-box PCI DSS Reports\n\u003e\u003e Are you Audit-Ready for PCI DSS 3.0 Compliance? Download White paper\n\u003e\u003e Comply to PCI DSS 3.0 Requirement 10 and 11.5 with EventLog Analyzer\n\u003e\u003e\n\u003e\u003e http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=154622311\u0026iu=/4140/ostg.clktrk\n\u003e\u003e\n\u003e\u003e ------------------------------\n\u003e\u003e\n\u003e\u003e _______________________________________________\n\u003e\u003e Bitcoin-development mailing list\n\u003e\u003e Bitcoin-development at lists.sourceforge.net\n\u003e\u003e https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bitcoin-development\n\u003e\u003e\n\u003e\u003e\n\u003e\u003e End of Bitcoin-development Digest, Vol 40, Issue 9\n\u003e\u003e **************************************************\n\u003e\u003e\n\u003e\n\u003e\n\u003e\n\u003e ------------------------------------------------------------------------------\n\u003e Meet PCI DSS 3.0 Compliance Requirements with EventLog Analyzer\n\u003e Achieve PCI DSS 3.0 Compliant Status with Out-of-the-box PCI DSS Reports\n\u003e Are you Audit-Ready for PCI DSS 3.0 Compliance? Download White paper\n\u003e Comply to PCI DSS 3.0 Requirement 10 and 11.5 with EventLog Analyzer\n\u003e\n\u003e http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=154622311\u0026iu=/4140/ostg.clktrk\n\u003e _______________________________________________\n\u003e Bitcoin-development mailing list\n\u003e Bitcoin-development at lists.sourceforge.net\n\u003e https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bitcoin-development\n\u003e\n\u003e\n-------------- next part --------------\nAn HTML attachment was scrubbed...\nURL: \u003chttp://lists.linuxfoundation.org/pipermail/bitcoin-dev/attachments/20140923/5557b219/attachment.html\u003e",
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