đź“… Original date posted:2021-06-28
đź“ť Original message:On Mon, Jun 28, 2021 at 2:09 AM raymo via bitcoin-dev
<bitcoin-dev at lists.linuxfoundation.org> wrote:
>
> Hi ZmnSCPxj,
>
> Why you get the signal “trust the Gazin wallet”?
> Sabu is a protocol and the Gazin wallet will be an implementation of
> that protocol. We will implement it in react-native language to support
> both Android and iPhone. Of course it will be open source and GPL3.
> Here is the repository and yet is empty :)
> https://github.com/raymaot/Gazin
>
> I wonder why you do not look carefully into the proposal! IMHO the Sabu
> will be far better than Lightning.
> Can’t you see the fact that in Sabu you do not need open and close
> channels ever? Can you imagine only this feature how dramatically
> decrease the transactions cost and how increase the distribution of
> nodes and improve privacy level? it makes every mobile wallet act like a
> lightning network.
> Did you note the fact that in Sabu protocol there is no routing? And the
> only people knew about a transaction are issuer and creditor? No one
> else won’t be aware of transactions and million transactions per second
> can be sent and received and repeal dynamically without any footprint on
> any DLT?
>
> The English is not my mother language and probably my paper is not a
> smooth and easy to read paper, but these are not good excuse to not even
> reading a technical paper carefully and before understanding it or at
> least trying to understanding it start to complaining.
Considering that you have not effectively addressed any of the inaccurate
assumptions made regarding how mining works that I pointed out earlier
I assume your proposal is not viable in practice.
See:
https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/pipermail/bitcoin-dev/2021-June/019091.html
>
> > All the benefits your scheme claims, are derived from the trust assumption
> No, All the benefits my scheme claims, are derived from economically
> rational decision of both issuer and creditors.
>
> Regards
> Raymo
>
>
>
> On 2021-06-28 05:20, ZmnSCPxj wrote:
> > Good morning Raymo,
> >
> >>
> >> It looks you already missed the entire design of Sabu and its
> >> restrictions. First of all, the Gazin wallet always controls the Sabu
> >> restrictions for every transaction in order to consider it as a valid
> >> transaction in a valid deal. That is, the creditor wallet controls the
> >> MT and GT in first place.
> >
> > Stop right there.
> >
> > From the above, what I get is, "trust the Gazin wallet".
> > Thus, the suggestion to just use Coinbase.
> > At least it has existed longer and has more current users that trust
> > it, rather than this Gazin thing.
> >
> >
> > Is Gazin open-source?
> >
> > * If Gazin is open-source, I could download the source code, make a
> > local copy that gives me a separate copy of the keys, and use the keys
> > to sign any transaction I want.
> > * If Gazin is not open-source, then why should I trust the Gazin
> > wallet until my incoming funds to an open-source wallet I control have
> > been confirmed deeply?
> >
> > Lightning is still superior because:
> >
> > * It can be open-sourced completely and even though I have keys to my
> > onchain funds, I *still* cannot steal the funds of my counterparty.
> > * Even if I connect my open-source node to a node with a closed-source
> > implementation, I know I can rely on receives from that node without
> > waiting for the transaction to be confirmed deeply.
> >
> >
> > All the benefits your scheme claims, are derived from the trust
> > assumption, which is uninteresting, we already have those, they are
> > called custodial wallets.
> > Lightning allows for non-custodiality while achieving high global TPS
> > and low fees.
> > And a central idea of Lightning is the requirement to use an n-of-n to
> > form smaller sub-moneys from the global money.
> >
> > Regards,
> > ZmnSCPxj
> _______________________________________________
> bitcoin-dev mailing list
> bitcoin-dev at lists.linuxfoundation.org
> https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/bitcoin-dev
James Hilliard [ARCHIVE] /
npub10r…kgk2d
2023-06-07 22:54:57
in reply to nevent1q…hx4s
Author Public Key
npub10r9d6edmnrljk59wsf06zqp494l3qtjpa3w245hy6t5euqxlzw2qdkgk2dPublished at
2023-06-07 22:54:57Event JSON
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"content": "📅 Original date posted:2021-06-28\n📝 Original message:On Mon, Jun 28, 2021 at 2:09 AM raymo via bitcoin-dev\n\u003cbitcoin-dev at lists.linuxfoundation.org\u003e wrote:\n\u003e\n\u003e Hi ZmnSCPxj,\n\u003e\n\u003e Why you get the signal “trust the Gazin wallet”?\n\u003e Sabu is a protocol and the Gazin wallet will be an implementation of\n\u003e that protocol. We will implement it in react-native language to support\n\u003e both Android and iPhone. Of course it will be open source and GPL3.\n\u003e Here is the repository and yet is empty :)\n\u003e https://github.com/raymaot/Gazin\n\u003e\n\u003e I wonder why you do not look carefully into the proposal! IMHO the Sabu\n\u003e will be far better than Lightning.\n\u003e Can’t you see the fact that in Sabu you do not need open and close\n\u003e channels ever? Can you imagine only this feature how dramatically\n\u003e decrease the transactions cost and how increase the distribution of\n\u003e nodes and improve privacy level? it makes every mobile wallet act like a\n\u003e lightning network.\n\u003e Did you note the fact that in Sabu protocol there is no routing? And the\n\u003e only people knew about a transaction are issuer and creditor? No one\n\u003e else won’t be aware of transactions and million transactions per second\n\u003e can be sent and received and repeal dynamically without any footprint on\n\u003e any DLT?\n\u003e\n\u003e The English is not my mother language and probably my paper is not a\n\u003e smooth and easy to read paper, but these are not good excuse to not even\n\u003e reading a technical paper carefully and before understanding it or at\n\u003e least trying to understanding it start to complaining.\n\nConsidering that you have not effectively addressed any of the inaccurate\nassumptions made regarding how mining works that I pointed out earlier\nI assume your proposal is not viable in practice.\n\nSee:\nhttps://lists.linuxfoundation.org/pipermail/bitcoin-dev/2021-June/019091.html\n\n\u003e\n\u003e \u003e All the benefits your scheme claims, are derived from the trust assumption\n\u003e No, All the benefits my scheme claims, are derived from economically\n\u003e rational decision of both issuer and creditors.\n\u003e\n\u003e Regards\n\u003e Raymo\n\u003e\n\u003e\n\u003e\n\u003e On 2021-06-28 05:20, ZmnSCPxj wrote:\n\u003e \u003e Good morning Raymo,\n\u003e \u003e\n\u003e \u003e\u003e\n\u003e \u003e\u003e It looks you already missed the entire design of Sabu and its\n\u003e \u003e\u003e restrictions. First of all, the Gazin wallet always controls the Sabu\n\u003e \u003e\u003e restrictions for every transaction in order to consider it as a valid\n\u003e \u003e\u003e transaction in a valid deal. That is, the creditor wallet controls the\n\u003e \u003e\u003e MT and GT in first place.\n\u003e \u003e\n\u003e \u003e Stop right there.\n\u003e \u003e\n\u003e \u003e From the above, what I get is, \"trust the Gazin wallet\".\n\u003e \u003e Thus, the suggestion to just use Coinbase.\n\u003e \u003e At least it has existed longer and has more current users that trust\n\u003e \u003e it, rather than this Gazin thing.\n\u003e \u003e\n\u003e \u003e\n\u003e \u003e Is Gazin open-source?\n\u003e \u003e\n\u003e \u003e * If Gazin is open-source, I could download the source code, make a\n\u003e \u003e local copy that gives me a separate copy of the keys, and use the keys\n\u003e \u003e to sign any transaction I want.\n\u003e \u003e * If Gazin is not open-source, then why should I trust the Gazin\n\u003e \u003e wallet until my incoming funds to an open-source wallet I control have\n\u003e \u003e been confirmed deeply?\n\u003e \u003e\n\u003e \u003e Lightning is still superior because:\n\u003e \u003e\n\u003e \u003e * It can be open-sourced completely and even though I have keys to my\n\u003e \u003e onchain funds, I *still* cannot steal the funds of my counterparty.\n\u003e \u003e * Even if I connect my open-source node to a node with a closed-source\n\u003e \u003e implementation, I know I can rely on receives from that node without\n\u003e \u003e waiting for the transaction to be confirmed deeply.\n\u003e \u003e\n\u003e \u003e\n\u003e \u003e All the benefits your scheme claims, are derived from the trust\n\u003e \u003e assumption, which is uninteresting, we already have those, they are\n\u003e \u003e called custodial wallets.\n\u003e \u003e Lightning allows for non-custodiality while achieving high global TPS\n\u003e \u003e and low fees.\n\u003e \u003e And a central idea of Lightning is the requirement to use an n-of-n to\n\u003e \u003e form smaller sub-moneys from the global money.\n\u003e \u003e\n\u003e \u003e Regards,\n\u003e \u003e ZmnSCPxj\n\u003e _______________________________________________\n\u003e bitcoin-dev mailing list\n\u003e bitcoin-dev at lists.linuxfoundation.org\n\u003e https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/bitcoin-dev",
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