📅 Original date posted:2014-04-07
📝 Original message:On Mon, Apr 7, 2014 at 8:50 PM, Tamas Blummer <tamas at bitsofproof.com> wrote:
> You have to load headers sequantially to be able to connect them and
> determine the longest chain.
>
The isn't strictly true. If you are connected to a some honest nodes, then
you could download portions of the chain and then connect the various
sub-chains together.
The protocol doesn't support it though. There is no system to ask for
block headers for the main chain block with a given height,
Finding one high bandwidth peer to download the entire header chain
sequentially is pretty much forced. The client can switch if there is a
timeout.
Other peers could be used to parallel download the block chain while the
main chain is downloading. Even if the header download stalled, it
wouldn't be that big a deal.
> Blocks can be loaded in random order once you have their order given by
the headers.
> Computing the UTXO however will force you to at least temporarily store
the blocks unless you have plenty of RAM.
You only need to store the UTXO set, rather than the entire block chain.
It is possible to generate the UTXO set without doing any signature
verification.
A lightweight node could just verify the UTXO set and then do random
signature verifications.
The keeps disk space and CPU reasonably low. If an illegal transaction is
added to be a block, then proof could be provided for the bad transaction.
The only slightly difficult thing is confirming inflation. That can be
checked on a block by block basis when downloading the entire block chain.
> Regards,
> Tamas Blummer
> http://bitsofproof.com <http://bitsofproof.com>;
On 07.04.2014, at 21:30, Paul Lyon <pmlyon at hotmail.ca> wrote:
I hope I'm not thread-jacking here, apologies if so, but that's the
approach I've taken with the node I'm working on.
Headers can be downloaded and stored in any order, it'll make sense of what
the winning chain is. Blocks don't need to be downloaded in any particular
order and they don't need to be saved to disk, the UTXO is fully
self-contained. That way the concern of storing blocks for seeding (or not)
is wholly separated from syncing the UTXO. This allows me to do the initial
blockchain sync in ~6 hours when I use my SSD. I only need enough disk
space to store the UTXO, and then whatever amount of block data the user
would want to store for the health of the network.
This project is a bitcoin learning exercise for me, so I can only hope I
don't have any critical design flaws in there. :)
------------------------------
From: tamas at bitsofproof.com
Date: Mon, 7 Apr 2014 21:20:31 +0200
To: gmaxwell at gmail.com
CC: bitcoin-development at lists.sourceforge.net
Subject: Re: [Bitcoin-development] Why are we bleeding nodes?
Once headers are loaded first there is no reason for sequential loading.
Validation has to be sequantial, but that step can be deferred until the
blocks before a point are loaded and continous.
Tamas Blummer
http://bitsofproof.com
On 07.04.2014, at 21:03, Gregory Maxwell <gmaxwell at gmail.com> wrote:
On Mon, Apr 7, 2014 at 12:00 PM, Tamas Blummer <tamas at bitsofproof.com>
wrote:
therefore I guess it is more handy to return some bitmap of pruned/full
blocks than ranges.
A bitmap also means high overhead and-- if it's used to advertise
non-contiguous blocks-- poor locality, since blocks are fetched
sequentially.
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Tier Nolan [ARCHIVE] /
npub1g6…sl5wd
2023-06-07 15:17:42
in reply to nevent1q…5q6t
Author Public Key
npub1g6vxlp4e0nyhs2dqxxcryztyf5f5hyuaq93nw4r87zcnv0sdsa0qqsl5wdPublished at
2023-06-07 15:17:42Event JSON
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"content": "📅 Original date posted:2014-04-07\n📝 Original message:On Mon, Apr 7, 2014 at 8:50 PM, Tamas Blummer \u003ctamas at bitsofproof.com\u003e wrote:\n\n\u003e You have to load headers sequantially to be able to connect them and\n\u003e determine the longest chain.\n\u003e\n\nThe isn't strictly true. If you are connected to a some honest nodes, then\nyou could download portions of the chain and then connect the various\nsub-chains together.\n\nThe protocol doesn't support it though. There is no system to ask for\nblock headers for the main chain block with a given height,\n\nFinding one high bandwidth peer to download the entire header chain\nsequentially is pretty much forced. The client can switch if there is a\ntimeout.\n\nOther peers could be used to parallel download the block chain while the\nmain chain is downloading. Even if the header download stalled, it\nwouldn't be that big a deal.\n\n\u003e Blocks can be loaded in random order once you have their order given by\nthe headers.\n\u003e Computing the UTXO however will force you to at least temporarily store\nthe blocks unless you have plenty of RAM.\n\nYou only need to store the UTXO set, rather than the entire block chain.\n\nIt is possible to generate the UTXO set without doing any signature\nverification.\n\nA lightweight node could just verify the UTXO set and then do random\nsignature verifications.\n\nThe keeps disk space and CPU reasonably low. If an illegal transaction is\nadded to be a block, then proof could be provided for the bad transaction.\n\nThe only slightly difficult thing is confirming inflation. That can be\nchecked on a block by block basis when downloading the entire block chain.\n\n\u003e Regards,\n\u003e Tamas Blummer\n\u003e http://bitsofproof.com \u003chttp://bitsofproof.com\u003e\n\nOn 07.04.2014, at 21:30, Paul Lyon \u003cpmlyon at hotmail.ca\u003e wrote:\n\nI hope I'm not thread-jacking here, apologies if so, but that's the\napproach I've taken with the node I'm working on.\n\nHeaders can be downloaded and stored in any order, it'll make sense of what\nthe winning chain is. Blocks don't need to be downloaded in any particular\norder and they don't need to be saved to disk, the UTXO is fully\nself-contained. That way the concern of storing blocks for seeding (or not)\nis wholly separated from syncing the UTXO. This allows me to do the initial\nblockchain sync in ~6 hours when I use my SSD. I only need enough disk\nspace to store the UTXO, and then whatever amount of block data the user\nwould want to store for the health of the network.\n\nThis project is a bitcoin learning exercise for me, so I can only hope I\ndon't have any critical design flaws in there. :)\n\n------------------------------\nFrom: tamas at bitsofproof.com\nDate: Mon, 7 Apr 2014 21:20:31 +0200\nTo: gmaxwell at gmail.com\nCC: bitcoin-development at lists.sourceforge.net\nSubject: Re: [Bitcoin-development] Why are we bleeding nodes?\n\n\nOnce headers are loaded first there is no reason for sequential loading.\n\nValidation has to be sequantial, but that step can be deferred until the\nblocks before a point are loaded and continous.\n\nTamas Blummer\nhttp://bitsofproof.com\n\nOn 07.04.2014, at 21:03, Gregory Maxwell \u003cgmaxwell at gmail.com\u003e wrote:\n\nOn Mon, Apr 7, 2014 at 12:00 PM, Tamas Blummer \u003ctamas at bitsofproof.com\u003e\nwrote:\n\ntherefore I guess it is more handy to return some bitmap of pruned/full\nblocks than ranges.\n\n\nA bitmap also means high overhead and-- if it's used to advertise\nnon-contiguous blocks-- poor locality, since blocks are fetched\nsequentially.\n\n\n\n------------------------------------------------------------------------------\nPut Bad Developers to Shame Dominate Development with Jenkins Continuous\nIntegration Continuously Automate Build, Test \u0026 Deployment Start a new\nproject now. Try Jenkins in the cloud.http://p.sf.net/sfu/13600_Cloudbees\n\n_______________________________________________ Bitcoin-development mailing\nlist Bitcoin-development at lists.sourceforge.net\nhttps://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bitcoin-development\n\n\n\n\u003e\n\u003e ------------------------------------------------------------------------------\n\u003e Put Bad Developers to Shame\n\u003e Dominate Development with Jenkins Continuous Integration\n\u003e Continuously Automate Build, Test \u0026 Deployment\n\u003e Start a new project now. Try Jenkins in the cloud.\n\u003e http://p.sf.net/sfu/13600_Cloudbees\n\u003e _______________________________________________\n\u003e Bitcoin-development mailing list\n\u003e Bitcoin-development at lists.sourceforge.net\n\u003e https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bitcoin-development\n\u003e\n\u003e\n-------------- next part --------------\nAn HTML attachment was scrubbed...\nURL: \u003chttp://lists.linuxfoundation.org/pipermail/bitcoin-dev/attachments/20140407/391b78f4/attachment.html\u003e",
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