James Hilliard [ARCHIVE] on Nostr: 📅 Original date posted:2017-06-07 📝 Original message:Yes, this is the same as ...

📅 Original date posted:2017-06-07
📝 Original message:Yes, this is the same as BIP148, there is no mandatory signalling
after segwit is locked in.

On Wed, Jun 7, 2017 at 4:43 PM, Jared Lee Richardson <jaredr26 at gmail.com> wrote:
>> Keep in mind that this is only temporary until segwit has locked in,
> after that happens it becomes optional for miners again.
>
> I missed that, that does effectively address that concern. It appears
> that BIP148 implements the same rule as would be required to prevent a
> later chainsplit as well, no?
>
> This comment did bring to mind another concern about BIP148/91 though,
> which I'll raise in the pull request discussion. Feel free to respond
> to it there.
>
> Jared
>
> On Wed, Jun 7, 2017 at 2:21 PM, James Hilliard
> <james.hilliard1 at gmail.com> wrote:
>> Keep in mind that this is only temporary until segwit has locked in,
>> after that happens it becomes optional for miners again.
>>
>> On Wed, Jun 7, 2017 at 4:09 PM, Jared Lee Richardson <jaredr26 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> This is, by far, the safest way for miners to quickly defend against a chain split, much better than a -bip148 option. This allows miners to defend themselves, with very little risk, since the defense is only activated if the majority of miners do so. I would move for a very rapid deployment. Only miners would need to upgrade. Regular users would not have to concern themselves with this release.
>>>
>>> FYI, even if very successful, this deployment and change may have a
>>> severe negative impact on a small group of miners. Any miners/pools
>>> who are not actively following the forums, news, or these discussions
>>> may be difficult to reach and communicate with in time, particularly
>>> with language barriers. Of those, any who are also either not
>>> signaling segwit currently or are running an older software version
>>> will have their blocks continuously and constantly orphaned, but may
>>> not have any alarms or notifications set up for such an unexpected
>>> failure. That may or may not be a worthy consideration, but it is
>>> definitely brusque and a harsh price to pay. Considering the
>>> opposition mentioned against transaction limits for the rare cases
>>> where a very large transaction has already been signed, it seems that
>>> this would be worthy of consideration. For the few miners in that
>>> situation, it does turn segwit from an optional softfork into a
>>> punishing hardfork.
>>>
>>> I don't think that's a sufficient reason alone to kill the idea, but
>>> it should be a concern.
>>>
>>> Jared
>>>
>>> On Wed, Jun 7, 2017 at 7:10 AM, Erik Aronesty via bitcoin-dev
>>> <bitcoin-dev at lists.linuxfoundation.org> wrote:
>>>> This is, by far, the safest way for miners to quickly defend against a chain
>>>> split, much better than a -bip148 option. This allows miners to defend
>>>> themselves, with very little risk, since the defense is only activated if
>>>> the majority of miners do so. I would move for a very rapid deployment.
>>>> Only miners would need to upgrade. Regular users would not have to concern
>>>> themselves with this release.
>>>>
>>>> On Wed, Jun 7, 2017 at 6:13 AM, James Hilliard via bitcoin-dev
>>>> <bitcoin-dev at lists.linuxfoundation.org> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> I think even 55% would probably work out fine simply due to incentive
>>>>> structures, once signalling is over 51% it's then clear to miners that
>>>>> non-signalling blocks will be orphaned and the rest will rapidly
>>>>> update to splitprotection/BIP148. The purpose of this BIP is to reduce
>>>>> chain split risk for BIP148 since it's looking like BIP148 is going to
>>>>> be run by a non-insignificant percentage of the economy at a minimum.
>>>>>
>>>>> On Wed, Jun 7, 2017 at 12:20 AM, Tao Effect <contact at taoeffect.com> wrote:
>>>>> > See thread on replay attacks for why activating regardless of threshold
>>>>> > is a
>>>>> > bad idea [1].
>>>>> >
>>>>> > BIP91 OTOH seems perfectly reasonable. 80% instead of 95% makes it more
>>>>> > difficult for miners to hold together in opposition to Core. It gives
>>>>> > Core
>>>>> > more leverage in negotiations.
>>>>> >
>>>>> > If they don't activate with 80%, Core can release another BIP to reduce
>>>>> > it
>>>>> > to 75%.
>>>>> >
>>>>> > Each threshold reduction makes it both more likely to succeed, but also
>>>>> > increases the likelihood of harm to the ecosystem.
>>>>> >
>>>>> > Cheers,
>>>>> > Greg
>>>>> >
>>>>> > [1]
>>>>> >
>>>>> > https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/pipermail/bitcoin-dev/2017-June/014497.html
>>>>> >
>>>>> > --
>>>>> > Please do not email me anything that you are not comfortable also
>>>>> > sharing
>>>>> > with the NSA.
>>>>> >
>>>>> > On Jun 6, 2017, at 6:54 PM, James Hilliard <james.hilliard1 at gmail.com>
>>>>> > wrote:
>>>>> >
>>>>> > This is a BIP8 style soft fork so mandatory signalling will be active
>>>>> > after Aug 1st regardless.
>>>>> >
>>>>> > On Tue, Jun 6, 2017 at 8:51 PM, Tao Effect <contact at taoeffect.com>
>>>>> > wrote:
>>>>> >
>>>>> > What is the probability that a 65% threshold is too low and can allow a
>>>>> > "surprise miner attack", whereby miners are kept offline before the
>>>>> > deadline, and brought online immediately after, creating potential
>>>>> > havoc?
>>>>> >
>>>>> > (Nit: "simple majority" usually refers to >50%, I think, might cause
>>>>> > confusion.)
>>>>> >
>>>>> > -Greg Slepak
>>>>> >
>>>>> > --
>>>>> > Please do not email me anything that you are not comfortable also
>>>>> > sharing
>>>>> > with the NSA.
>>>>> >
>>>>> > On Jun 6, 2017, at 5:56 PM, James Hilliard via bitcoin-dev
>>>>> > <bitcoin-dev at lists.linuxfoundation.org> wrote:
>>>>> >
>>>>> > Due to the proposed calendar(https://segwit2x.github.io/) for the
>>>>> > SegWit2x agreement being too slow to activate SegWit mandatory
>>>>> > signalling ahead of BIP148 using BIP91 I would like to propose another
>>>>> > option that miners can use to prevent a chain split ahead of the Aug
>>>>> > 1st BIP148 activation date.
>>>>> >
>>>>> > The splitprotection soft fork is essentially BIP91 but using BIP8
>>>>> > instead of BIP9 with a lower activation threshold and immediate
>>>>> > mandatory signalling lock-in. This allows for a majority of miners to
>>>>> > activate mandatory SegWit signalling and prevent a potential chain
>>>>> > split ahead of BIP148 activation.
>>>>> >
>>>>> > This BIP allows for miners to respond to market forces quickly ahead
>>>>> > of BIP148 activation by signalling for splitprotection. Any miners
>>>>> > already running BIP148 should be encouraged to use splitprotection.
>>>>> >
>>>>> > <pre>
>>>>> > BIP: splitprotection
>>>>> > Layer: Consensus (soft fork)
>>>>> > Title: User Activated Soft Fork Split Protection
>>>>> > Author: James Hilliard <james.hilliard1 at gmail.com>
>>>>> > Comments-Summary: No comments yet.
>>>>> > Comments-URI:
>>>>> > Status: Draft
>>>>> > Type: Standards Track
>>>>> > Created: 2017-05-22
>>>>> > License: BSD-3-Clause
>>>>> > CC0-1.0
>>>>> > </pre>
>>>>> >
>>>>> > ==Abstract==
>>>>> >
>>>>> > This document specifies a coordination mechanism for a simple majority
>>>>> > of miners to prevent a chain split ahead of BIP148 activation.
>>>>> >
>>>>> > ==Definitions==
>>>>> >
>>>>> > "existing segwit deployment" refer to the BIP9 "segwit" deployment
>>>>> > using bit 1, between November 15th 2016 and November 15th 2017 to
>>>>> > activate BIP141, BIP143 and BIP147.
>>>>> >
>>>>> > ==Motivation==
>>>>> >
>>>>> > The biggest risk of BIP148 is an extended chain split, this BIP
>>>>> > provides a way for a simple majority of miners to eliminate that risk.
>>>>> >
>>>>> > This BIP provides a way for a simple majority of miners to coordinate
>>>>> > activation of the existing segwit deployment with less than 95%
>>>>> > hashpower before BIP148 activation. Due to time constraints unless
>>>>> > immediately deployed BIP91 will likely not be able to enforce
>>>>> > mandatory signalling of segwit before the Aug 1st activation of
>>>>> > BIP148. This BIP provides a method for rapid miner activation of
>>>>> > SegWit mandatory signalling ahead of the BIP148 activation date. Since
>>>>> > the primary goal of this BIP is to reduce the chance of an extended
>>>>> > chain split as much as possible we activate using a simple miner
>>>>> > majority of 65% over a 504 block interval rather than a higher
>>>>> > percentage. This BIP also allows miners to signal their intention to
>>>>> > run BIP148 in order to prevent a chain split.
>>>>> >
>>>>> > ==Specification==
>>>>> >
>>>>> > While this BIP is active, all blocks must set the nVersion header top
>>>>> > 3 bits to 001 together with bit field (1<<1) (according to the
>>>>> > existing segwit deployment). Blocks that do not signal as required
>>>>> > will be rejected.
>>>>> >
>>>>> > ==Deployment==
>>>>> >
>>>>> > This BIP will be deployed by "version bits" with a 65%(this can be
>>>>> > adjusted if desired) activation threshold BIP9 with the name
>>>>> > "splitprotecion" and using bit 2.
>>>>> >
>>>>> > This BIP starts immediately and is a BIP8 style soft fork since
>>>>> > mandatory signalling will start on midnight August 1st 2017 (epoch
>>>>> > time 1501545600) regardless of whether or not this BIP has reached its
>>>>> > own signalling threshold. This BIP will cease to be active when segwit
>>>>> > is locked-in.
>>>>> >
>>>>> > === Reference implementation ===
>>>>> >
>>>>> > <pre>
>>>>> > // Check if Segregated Witness is Locked In
>>>>> > bool IsWitnessLockedIn(const CBlockIndex* pindexPrev, const
>>>>> > Consensus::Params& params)
>>>>> > {
>>>>> > LOCK(cs_main);
>>>>> > return (VersionBitsState(pindexPrev, params,
>>>>> > Consensus::DEPLOYMENT_SEGWIT, versionbitscache) ==
>>>>> > THRESHOLD_LOCKED_IN);
>>>>> > }
>>>>> >
>>>>> > // SPLITPROTECTION mandatory segwit signalling.
>>>>> > if ( VersionBitsState(pindex->pprev, chainparams.GetConsensus(),
>>>>> > Consensus::DEPLOYMENT_SPLITPROTECTION, versionbitscache) ==
>>>>> > THRESHOLD_LOCKED_IN &&
>>>>> > !IsWitnessLockedIn(pindex->pprev, chainparams.GetConsensus()) &&
>>>>> > // Segwit is not locked in
>>>>> > !IsWitnessEnabled(pindex->pprev, chainparams.GetConsensus()) ) //
>>>>> > and is not active.
>>>>> > {
>>>>> > bool fVersionBits = (pindex->nVersion & VERSIONBITS_TOP_MASK) ==
>>>>> > VERSIONBITS_TOP_BITS;
>>>>> > bool fSegbit = (pindex->nVersion &
>>>>> > VersionBitsMask(chainparams.GetConsensus(),
>>>>> > Consensus::DEPLOYMENT_SEGWIT)) != 0;
>>>>> > if (!(fVersionBits && fSegbit)) {
>>>>> > return state.DoS(0, error("ConnectBlock(): relayed block must
>>>>> > signal for segwit, please upgrade"), REJECT_INVALID, "bad-no-segwit");
>>>>> > }
>>>>> > }
>>>>> >
>>>>> > // BIP148 mandatory segwit signalling.
>>>>> > int64_t nMedianTimePast = pindex->GetMedianTimePast();
>>>>> > if ( (nMedianTimePast >= 1501545600) && // Tue 01 Aug 2017 00:00:00 UTC
>>>>> > (nMedianTimePast <= 1510704000) && // Wed 15 Nov 2017 00:00:00 UTC
>>>>> > (!IsWitnessLockedIn(pindex->pprev, chainparams.GetConsensus()) &&
>>>>> > // Segwit is not locked in
>>>>> > !IsWitnessEnabled(pindex->pprev, chainparams.GetConsensus())) )
>>>>> > // and is not active.
>>>>> > {
>>>>> > bool fVersionBits = (pindex->nVersion & VERSIONBITS_TOP_MASK) ==
>>>>> > VERSIONBITS_TOP_BITS;
>>>>> > bool fSegbit = (pindex->nVersion &
>>>>> > VersionBitsMask(chainparams.GetConsensus(),
>>>>> > Consensus::DEPLOYMENT_SEGWIT)) != 0;
>>>>> > if (!(fVersionBits && fSegbit)) {
>>>>> > return state.DoS(0, error("ConnectBlock(): relayed block must
>>>>> > signal for segwit, please upgrade"), REJECT_INVALID, "bad-no-segwit");
>>>>> > }
>>>>> > }
>>>>> > </pre>
>>>>> >
>>>>> >
>>>>> > https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/compare/0.14...jameshilliard:splitprotection-v0.14.1
>>>>> >
>>>>> > ==Backwards Compatibility==
>>>>> >
>>>>> > This deployment is compatible with the existing "segwit" bit 1
>>>>> > deployment scheduled between midnight November 15th, 2016 and midnight
>>>>> > November 15th, 2017. This deployment is also compatible with the
>>>>> > existing BIP148 deployment. This BIP is compatible with BIP91 only if
>>>>> > BIP91 activates before it and before BIP148. Miners will need to
>>>>> > upgrade their nodes to support splitprotection otherwise they may
>>>>> > build on top of an invalid block. While this bip is active users
>>>>> > should either upgrade to splitprotection or wait for additional
>>>>> > confirmations when accepting payments.
>>>>> >
>>>>> > ==Rationale==
>>>>> >
>>>>> > Historically we have used IsSuperMajority() to activate soft forks
>>>>> > such as BIP66 which has a mandatory signalling requirement for miners
>>>>> > once activated, this ensures that miners are aware of new rules being
>>>>> > enforced. This technique can be leveraged to lower the signalling
>>>>> > threshold of a soft fork while it is in the process of being deployed
>>>>> > in a backwards compatible way. We also use a BIP8 style timeout to
>>>>> > ensure that this BIP is compatible with BIP148 and that BIP148
>>>>> > compatible mandatory signalling activates regardless of miner
>>>>> > signalling levels.
>>>>> >
>>>>> > By orphaning non-signalling blocks during the BIP9 bit 1 "segwit"
>>>>> > deployment, this BIP can cause the existing "segwit" deployment to
>>>>> > activate without needing to release a new deployment. As we approach
>>>>> > BIP148 activation it may be desirable for a majority of miners to have
>>>>> > a method that will ensure that there is no chain split.
>>>>> >
>>>>> > ==References==
>>>>> >
>>>>> >
>>>>> > *[https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/pipermail/bitcoin-dev/2017-March/013714.html
>>>>> > Mailing list discussion]
>>>>> >
>>>>> > *[https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/blob/v0.6.0/src/main.cpp#L1281-L1283
>>>>> > P2SH flag day activation]
>>>>> > *[[bip-0009.mediawiki|BIP9 Version bits with timeout and delay]]
>>>>> > *[[bip-0016.mediawiki|BIP16 Pay to Script Hash]]
>>>>> > *[[bip-0091.mediawiki|BIP91 Reduced threshold Segwit MASF]]
>>>>> > *[[bip-0141.mediawiki|BIP141 Segregated Witness (Consensus layer)]]
>>>>> > *[[bip-0143.mediawiki|BIP143 Transaction Signature Verification for
>>>>> > Version 0 Witness Program]]
>>>>> > *[[bip-0147.mediawiki|BIP147 Dealing with dummy stack element
>>>>> > malleability]]
>>>>> > *[[bip-0148.mediawiki|BIP148 Mandatory activation of segwit deployment]]
>>>>> > *[[bip-0149.mediawiki|BIP149 Segregated Witness (second deployment)]]
>>>>> > *[https://bitcoincore.org/en/2016/01/26/segwit-benefits/ Segwit
>>>>> > benefits]
>>>>> >
>>>>> > ==Copyright==
>>>>> >
>>>>> > This document is dual licensed as BSD 3-clause, and Creative Commons
>>>>> > CC0 1.0 Universal.
>>>>> > _______________________________________________
>>>>> > bitcoin-dev mailing list
>>>>> > bitcoin-dev at lists.linuxfoundation.org
>>>>> > https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/bitcoin-dev
>>>>> >
>>>>> >
>>>>> >
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> bitcoin-dev mailing list
>>>>> bitcoin-dev at lists.linuxfoundation.org
>>>>> https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/bitcoin-dev
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>>