📅 Original date posted:2016-03-09
📝 Original message:
> If A sends many HTLCs through B, B can simply plot what the timeouts
> are and know that A is likely originating the HTLCs rather than relaying
> them for someone else.
Hm, right. If all payments that come from A have a timeout larger than
some minimum value X, he is generating all of them and is just trying to
randomize those. However, if he creates a payment with an initial refund
value lower than X, the payment might not succeed, because the
intermediate nodes deducted too much.
However, if we take into account that the amount of nodes in the route
is not a constant, and only known to the sender, this adds another
degree of freedom to choose the initial value.
>> However, I am inclined to use those timestamps in the onion object, as
>> the described attackvector still exists.
>
> Doesn't including timestamps in the onion provide explicit information
> on the number of previous hops though?
Not if they are randomized. The initial sender will choose a good
starting value (see above), and deduct MIN_TIMEOUT * MIN_OVERLAY *
RANDOM from it. Actually it doesn't provide any additional data, as that
is the very same mechanism the intermediate hops come to that value.
--
Mats Jerratsch
Backend Engineer, Blockchain
e: mats at blockchain.com
PGP: https://pgp.mit.edu/pks/lookup?op=get&search=0x7F3EC6CA
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Mats Jerratsch [ARCHIVE] /
npub1hz…q5x8w
2023-06-09 12:45:48
in reply to nevent1q…yege
Author Public Key
npub1hz386xq4qszumlx5fsxa3kuxpaf8qvfrqqjg8zdl2l892hrcg55q6q5x8wPublished at
2023-06-09 12:45:48Event JSON
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"content": "📅 Original date posted:2016-03-09\n📝 Original message:\n\u003e If A sends many HTLCs through B, B can simply plot what the timeouts\n\u003e are and know that A is likely originating the HTLCs rather than relaying\n\u003e them for someone else.\n\nHm, right. If all payments that come from A have a timeout larger than\nsome minimum value X, he is generating all of them and is just trying to\nrandomize those. However, if he creates a payment with an initial refund\nvalue lower than X, the payment might not succeed, because the\nintermediate nodes deducted too much.\n\nHowever, if we take into account that the amount of nodes in the route\nis not a constant, and only known to the sender, this adds another\ndegree of freedom to choose the initial value.\n\n\n\u003e\u003e However, I am inclined to use those timestamps in the onion object, as\n\u003e\u003e the described attackvector still exists.\n\u003e \n\u003e Doesn't including timestamps in the onion provide explicit information\n\u003e on the number of previous hops though?\n\nNot if they are randomized. The initial sender will choose a good\nstarting value (see above), and deduct MIN_TIMEOUT * MIN_OVERLAY *\nRANDOM from it. Actually it doesn't provide any additional data, as that\nis the very same mechanism the intermediate hops come to that value.\n\n-- \nMats Jerratsch\nBackend Engineer, Blockchain\ne: mats at blockchain.com\nPGP: https://pgp.mit.edu/pks/lookup?op=get\u0026search=0x7F3EC6CA\n\n-------------- next part --------------\nA non-text attachment was scrubbed...\nName: signature.asc\nType: application/pgp-signature\nSize: 842 bytes\nDesc: OpenPGP digital signature\nURL: \u003chttp://lists.linuxfoundation.org/pipermail/lightning-dev/attachments/20160309/d067aae0/attachment.sig\u003e",
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