📅 Original date posted:2021-05-16
📝 Original message:On Friday 14 May 2021 21:41:23 Michael Fuhrmann via bitcoin-dev wrote:
> Bitcoin should create blocks every 10 minutes in average. So why do
> miners need to mine the 9 minutes after the last block was found? It's
> not necessary.
It increases security, and is unavoidable anyway.
> Problem: How to prevent "pre-mining" in the 9 minutes time window?
You can't.
> Possible ideas for discussion:
>
> - (maybe most difficult) global network timer sending a salted hash time
> code after 9 minutes. this enables validation by nodes.
PoW *is* the global network timer.
> - (easy attempt) mining jobs before 9 minutes have a 10 (or 100 or just
> high enough) times higher difficulty. so everyone can mine any time but
> before to 9 minutes are up there will be a too high downside. It is more
> efficient to wait then paying high bills. The bitcoin will get a "puls".
There's no timestamp at this stage of consensus.
On Sunday 16 May 2021 18:10:12 Karl via bitcoin-dev wrote:
> The clock might be implementable on a peer network level by requiring
> inclusion of a transaction that was broadcast after a 9 minute delay.
That requires a centralised authority.
On Sunday 16 May 2021 20:31:47 Anton Ragin via bitcoin-dev wrote:
> 1. Has anyone considered that it might be technically not possible to
> completely 'power down' mining rigs during this 'cool-down' period of time?
> While modern CPUs have power-saving modes, I am not sure about ASICs used
> for mining.
That would be miners' problem, not the network's... New ASICs would no doubt
be made to work more efficiently.
> 2. I am not a huge data-center specialist, but it was my understanding that
> they charge per unit of installed (maximum) electricity consumption. It
> would mean that if the miner needs X kilowatts-hour within that 1 minute
> when they are allowed to mine, he/she will have to pay for the same X for
> the remaining 9 minutes - and as such would have no economic incentive not
> to draw that power when idling.
Actually, this would be a good thing: it would heavily discourage datacentre
use (which is very harmful to mining decentralisation).
> 4. My counter-proposal to the community to address energy consumption
> problems would be *to encourage users to allow only 'green miners' process
> their transaction.* In particular:
>...
> (b) Should there be some non-profit organization(s) certifying green miners
> and giving them cryptographic certificates of conformity (either usage of
> green energy or purchase of offsets), users could encrypt their
> transactions and submit to mempool in such a format that *only green miners
> would be able to decrypt and process them*.
Hello centralisation. Might as well just have someone sign miner keys, and get
rid of PoW entirely...
Luke Dashjr [ARCHIVE] /
npub1tf…rfq0n
2023-06-07 22:53:29
in reply to nevent1q…0dfa
Author Public Key
npub1tfk373zg9dnmtvxnpnq7s2dkdgj37rwfj3yrwld7830qltmv8qps8rfq0nPublished at
2023-06-07 22:53:29Event JSON
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"content": "📅 Original date posted:2021-05-16\n📝 Original message:On Friday 14 May 2021 21:41:23 Michael Fuhrmann via bitcoin-dev wrote:\n\u003e Bitcoin should create blocks every 10 minutes in average. So why do\n\u003e miners need to mine the 9 minutes after the last block was found? It's\n\u003e not necessary.\n\nIt increases security, and is unavoidable anyway.\n\n\u003e Problem: How to prevent \"pre-mining\" in the 9 minutes time window?\n\nYou can't.\n\n\u003e Possible ideas for discussion:\n\u003e\n\u003e - (maybe most difficult) global network timer sending a salted hash time\n\u003e code after 9 minutes. this enables validation by nodes.\n\nPoW *is* the global network timer.\n\n\u003e - (easy attempt) mining jobs before 9 minutes have a 10 (or 100 or just\n\u003e high enough) times higher difficulty. so everyone can mine any time but\n\u003e before to 9 minutes are up there will be a too high downside. It is more\n\u003e efficient to wait then paying high bills. The bitcoin will get a \"puls\".\n\nThere's no timestamp at this stage of consensus.\n\nOn Sunday 16 May 2021 18:10:12 Karl via bitcoin-dev wrote:\n\u003e The clock might be implementable on a peer network level by requiring\n\u003e inclusion of a transaction that was broadcast after a 9 minute delay.\n\nThat requires a centralised authority.\n\nOn Sunday 16 May 2021 20:31:47 Anton Ragin via bitcoin-dev wrote:\n\u003e 1. Has anyone considered that it might be technically not possible to\n\u003e completely 'power down' mining rigs during this 'cool-down' period of time?\n\u003e While modern CPUs have power-saving modes, I am not sure about ASICs used\n\u003e for mining.\n\nThat would be miners' problem, not the network's... New ASICs would no doubt \nbe made to work more efficiently.\n\n\u003e 2. I am not a huge data-center specialist, but it was my understanding that\n\u003e they charge per unit of installed (maximum) electricity consumption. It\n\u003e would mean that if the miner needs X kilowatts-hour within that 1 minute\n\u003e when they are allowed to mine, he/she will have to pay for the same X for\n\u003e the remaining 9 minutes - and as such would have no economic incentive not\n\u003e to draw that power when idling.\n\nActually, this would be a good thing: it would heavily discourage datacentre \nuse (which is very harmful to mining decentralisation).\n\n\u003e 4. My counter-proposal to the community to address energy consumption\n\u003e problems would be *to encourage users to allow only 'green miners' process\n\u003e their transaction.* In particular:\n\u003e...\n\u003e (b) Should there be some non-profit organization(s) certifying green miners \n\u003e and giving them cryptographic certificates of conformity (either usage of\n\u003e green energy or purchase of offsets), users could encrypt their\n\u003e transactions and submit to mempool in such a format that *only green miners\n\u003e would be able to decrypt and process them*.\n\nHello centralisation. Might as well just have someone sign miner keys, and get \nrid of PoW entirely...",
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