Andrew C [ARCHIVE] on Nostr: ๐
Original date posted:2016-10-17 ๐ Original message:On 10/17/2016 7:17 AM, Tom ...
๐
Original date posted:2016-10-17
๐ Original message:On 10/17/2016 7:17 AM, Tom Zander via bitcoin-dev wrote:
> As Marek wrote just minutes before your email came in; companies will not
> roll out their updates until it locks in. Peter Todd says the same thing.
> So your assumption that the lock-in time is the END of the upgrading is
> false. Thats only the case for miners.
But again, how does having a longer fallow period make this any safer?
As was mentioned before, a lot of the wallets listed as WIP have code
ready and tested, just not officially released, so not listed as ready.
It doesn't take 2 months to roll out a software update that is already
prepared beforehand.
> The entire point here is that SegWit is much bigger than just full nodes
> (including miner).
> An entire ecosystem of Bitconin will have a need to upgrade.
>
> I understand people saying that non-miners don't *need* to upgrade in order
> to avoid being kicked of the network, but truely, thats a bogus argument.
>
> People want to actually participate in Bitcoin and that means they need to
> understand all of it. Not just see anyone-can-spend transactions.
> I think its rather odd to think that developers on this list can decide
> the risk profile that Bitcoin using companies or individuals should have.
I think it's rather odd that no major Bitcoin companies have raised any
such issues with Segwit and in fact many already have the upgrade in the
works. I think it's rather odd that individuals who are not opposed to
segwit would choose to not upgrade even though it has been actively
discussed for the past year.
> There are a bunch of really large assumptions in there that I disagree with.
> First of all, miners running the latest software doesn't mean the software
> is free from flaws. Everyone makes mistakes. People that see a way to abuse
> the system may have found things and are not reporting it because they want
> to abuse the flaw for their own gains. Which is exactly what happened with
> Etherium.
While flaws can still be found, unlike the DAO, Segwit has been tested
extensively for a much longer period of time. Waiting any longer isn't
likely to help given that so much testing and review has already been
done. Even so, that is a pointless argument as it is impossible to know
whether waiting a little longer would reveal an issue.
>
> The amount of code and the amount of changes in SegWit makes this a very
> dangerous change in (of?) Bitcoin. I counted 10 core concepts in Bitcoin
> being changed with it. We don't yet know how they will interact. We canโt.
Really? How so? It's been active on 4 different segwit specific testnets
and it has been active on the Testnet for the past several months.
People have been spamming segwit transactions and extensively testing
Segwit since its deployment on Testnet. I think we know how segwit
transactions and all aspects of the changes work together as it has been
tested as such for several months now.
Published at
2023-06-07 17:54:06Event JSON
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Original date posted:2016-10-17\n๐ Original message:On 10/17/2016 7:17 AM, Tom Zander via bitcoin-dev wrote:\n\u003e As Marek wrote just minutes before your email came in; companies will not \n\u003e roll out their updates until it locks in. Peter Todd says the same thing.\n\u003e So your assumption that the lock-in time is the END of the upgrading is \n\u003e false. Thats only the case for miners.\nBut again, how does having a longer fallow period make this any safer?\nAs was mentioned before, a lot of the wallets listed as WIP have code\nready and tested, just not officially released, so not listed as ready.\nIt doesn't take 2 months to roll out a software update that is already\nprepared beforehand.\n\u003e The entire point here is that SegWit is much bigger than just full nodes \n\u003e (including miner).\n\u003e An entire ecosystem of Bitconin will have a need to upgrade.\n\u003e\n\u003e I understand people saying that non-miners don't *need* to upgrade in order \n\u003e to avoid being kicked of the network, but truely, thats a bogus argument.\n\u003e\n\u003e People want to actually participate in Bitcoin and that means they need to \n\u003e understand all of it. Not just see anyone-can-spend transactions.\n\u003e I think its rather odd to think that developers on this list can decide\n\u003e the risk profile that Bitcoin using companies or individuals should have.\nI think it's rather odd that no major Bitcoin companies have raised any\nsuch issues with Segwit and in fact many already have the upgrade in the\nworks. I think it's rather odd that individuals who are not opposed to\nsegwit would choose to not upgrade even though it has been actively\ndiscussed for the past year.\n\u003e There are a bunch of really large assumptions in there that I disagree with.\n\u003e First of all, miners running the latest software doesn't mean the software \n\u003e is free from flaws. Everyone makes mistakes. People that see a way to abuse \n\u003e the system may have found things and are not reporting it because they want \n\u003e to abuse the flaw for their own gains. Which is exactly what happened with \n\u003e Etherium.\nWhile flaws can still be found, unlike the DAO, Segwit has been tested\nextensively for a much longer period of time. Waiting any longer isn't\nlikely to help given that so much testing and review has already been\ndone. Even so, that is a pointless argument as it is impossible to know\nwhether waiting a little longer would reveal an issue.\n\u003e\n\u003e The amount of code and the amount of changes in SegWit makes this a very \n\u003e dangerous change in (of?) Bitcoin. I counted 10 core concepts in Bitcoin \n\u003e being changed with it. We don't yet know how they will interact. We canโt.\nReally? How so? It's been active on 4 different segwit specific testnets\nand it has been active on the Testnet for the past several months.\nPeople have been spamming segwit transactions and extensively testing\nSegwit since its deployment on Testnet. I think we know how segwit\ntransactions and all aspects of the changes work together as it has been\ntested as such for several months now.",
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