📅 Original date posted:2019-02-06
📝 Original message:It's not quite enough to just do SHA512, you missed out this condition
(incredibly rare as it is):
> In case IL is 0 or ≥n, the master key is invalid.
Also I can't see how I would use this to seed a hardware wallet that
requires a BIP39 seed as mentioned in your abstract.
For both of those reasons, you may want to just invent/formalize a scheme
that takes Cards -> Entropy.
>From that Entropy one can generate BIP39, and non-BIP39 fans can just
continue, generate and store their root xprv.
Prior art: Note that Ian Coleman's BIP39 site already supports Cards (and
Dice), see the logic here:
https://github.com/iancoleman/bip39/blob/master/src/js/entropy.js
[image: image.png]
Note it detected "full deck". It also calculates the Total Bits of Entropy
and can handle card replacement and multiple decks.
PS, you're a bit out on your entropy calculation, log2(52!) ~= 225.58 bits,
not 219.
On Tue, 5 Feb 2019 at 02:08, Devrandom via bitcoin-dev <
bitcoin-dev at lists.linuxfoundation.org> wrote:
> I would suggest 50+ 6-sided dice rolls, giving about 128 bits of entropy.
> Compared to a shuffle, it's easier to be sure that you got the right amount
> of entropy, even if the dice are somewhat biased.
>
>
> On Mon, Feb 4, 2019 at 2:33 PM James MacWhyte via bitcoin-dev <
> bitcoin-dev at lists.linuxfoundation.org> wrote:
>
>>
>> James
>>
>>
>> On Sun, Feb 3, 2019 at 10:27 AM Ryan Havar via bitcoin-dev <
>> bitcoin-dev at lists.linuxfoundation.org> wrote:
>>
>>> Conveniently a shuffled deck of cards also can serve as a physical
>>> backup which is easy to hide in plain sight with great plausible
>>> deniability.
>>>
>>
>> To make sure someone doesn't play with your cards and mix up the order,
>> use a permanent marker to draw a diagonal line on the side of the deck from
>> corner to corner. If the cards ever get mixed up, you can put them back in
>> order by making sure the diagonal line matches up.
>> _______________________________________________
>> bitcoin-dev mailing list
>> bitcoin-dev at lists.linuxfoundation.org
>> https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/bitcoin-dev
>>
> _______________________________________________
> bitcoin-dev mailing list
> bitcoin-dev at lists.linuxfoundation.org
> https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/bitcoin-dev
>
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Alan Evans [ARCHIVE] /
npub15s…htj94
2023-06-07 18:16:18
in reply to nevent1q…mjua
Author Public Key
npub15s37yxwtrf7cd83sujzneprwsjtvhjjxcygutpqk5f966093utms6htj94Published at
2023-06-07 18:16:18Event JSON
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"content": "📅 Original date posted:2019-02-06\n📝 Original message:It's not quite enough to just do SHA512, you missed out this condition\n(incredibly rare as it is):\n\n\u003e In case IL is 0 or ≥n, the master key is invalid.\n\nAlso I can't see how I would use this to seed a hardware wallet that\nrequires a BIP39 seed as mentioned in your abstract.\n\nFor both of those reasons, you may want to just invent/formalize a scheme\nthat takes Cards -\u003e Entropy.\n\u003eFrom that Entropy one can generate BIP39, and non-BIP39 fans can just\ncontinue, generate and store their root xprv.\n\nPrior art: Note that Ian Coleman's BIP39 site already supports Cards (and\nDice), see the logic here:\nhttps://github.com/iancoleman/bip39/blob/master/src/js/entropy.js\n\n[image: image.png]\n\nNote it detected \"full deck\". It also calculates the Total Bits of Entropy\nand can handle card replacement and multiple decks.\n\nPS, you're a bit out on your entropy calculation, log2(52!) ~= 225.58 bits,\nnot 219.\n\n\nOn Tue, 5 Feb 2019 at 02:08, Devrandom via bitcoin-dev \u003c\nbitcoin-dev at lists.linuxfoundation.org\u003e wrote:\n\n\u003e I would suggest 50+ 6-sided dice rolls, giving about 128 bits of entropy.\n\u003e Compared to a shuffle, it's easier to be sure that you got the right amount\n\u003e of entropy, even if the dice are somewhat biased.\n\u003e\n\u003e\n\u003e On Mon, Feb 4, 2019 at 2:33 PM James MacWhyte via bitcoin-dev \u003c\n\u003e bitcoin-dev at lists.linuxfoundation.org\u003e wrote:\n\u003e\n\u003e\u003e\n\u003e\u003e James\n\u003e\u003e\n\u003e\u003e\n\u003e\u003e On Sun, Feb 3, 2019 at 10:27 AM Ryan Havar via bitcoin-dev \u003c\n\u003e\u003e bitcoin-dev at lists.linuxfoundation.org\u003e wrote:\n\u003e\u003e\n\u003e\u003e\u003e Conveniently a shuffled deck of cards also can serve as a physical\n\u003e\u003e\u003e backup which is easy to hide in plain sight with great plausible\n\u003e\u003e\u003e deniability.\n\u003e\u003e\u003e\n\u003e\u003e\n\u003e\u003e To make sure someone doesn't play with your cards and mix up the order,\n\u003e\u003e use a permanent marker to draw a diagonal line on the side of the deck from\n\u003e\u003e corner to corner. If the cards ever get mixed up, you can put them back in\n\u003e\u003e order by making sure the diagonal line matches up.\n\u003e\u003e _______________________________________________\n\u003e\u003e bitcoin-dev mailing list\n\u003e\u003e bitcoin-dev at lists.linuxfoundation.org\n\u003e\u003e https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/bitcoin-dev\n\u003e\u003e\n\u003e _______________________________________________\n\u003e bitcoin-dev mailing list\n\u003e bitcoin-dev at lists.linuxfoundation.org\n\u003e https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/bitcoin-dev\n\u003e\n-------------- next part --------------\nAn HTML attachment was scrubbed...\nURL: \u003chttp://lists.linuxfoundation.org/pipermail/bitcoin-dev/attachments/20190206/ae1b7d9b/attachment-0001.html\u003e",
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