📅 Original date posted:2019-02-06
📝 Original message:Image didn't seem to attach:
[image: image.png]
On Wed, 6 Feb 2019 at 09:48, Alan Evans <thealanevans at gmail.com> wrote:
> It's not quite enough to just do SHA512, you missed out this condition
> (incredibly rare as it is):
>
> > In case IL is 0 or ≥n, the master key is invalid.
>
> Also I can't see how I would use this to seed a hardware wallet that
> requires a BIP39 seed as mentioned in your abstract.
>
> For both of those reasons, you may want to just invent/formalize a scheme
> that takes Cards -> Entropy.
> From that Entropy one can generate BIP39, and non-BIP39 fans can just
> continue, generate and store their root xprv.
>
> Prior art: Note that Ian Coleman's BIP39 site already supports Cards (and
> Dice), see the logic here:
> https://github.com/iancoleman/bip39/blob/master/src/js/entropy.js
>
> [image: image.png]
>
> Note it detected "full deck". It also calculates the Total Bits of Entropy
> and can handle card replacement and multiple decks.
>
> PS, you're a bit out on your entropy calculation, log2(52!) ~= 225.58
> bits, not 219.
>
>
> On Tue, 5 Feb 2019 at 02:08, Devrandom via bitcoin-dev <
> bitcoin-dev at lists.linuxfoundation.org> wrote:
>
>> I would suggest 50+ 6-sided dice rolls, giving about 128 bits of
>> entropy. Compared to a shuffle, it's easier to be sure that you got the
>> right amount of entropy, even if the dice are somewhat biased.
>>
>>
>> On Mon, Feb 4, 2019 at 2:33 PM James MacWhyte via bitcoin-dev <
>> bitcoin-dev at lists.linuxfoundation.org> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> James
>>>
>>>
>>> On Sun, Feb 3, 2019 at 10:27 AM Ryan Havar via bitcoin-dev <
>>> bitcoin-dev at lists.linuxfoundation.org> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Conveniently a shuffled deck of cards also can serve as a physical
>>>> backup which is easy to hide in plain sight with great plausible
>>>> deniability.
>>>>
>>>
>>> To make sure someone doesn't play with your cards and mix up the order,
>>> use a permanent marker to draw a diagonal line on the side of the deck from
>>> corner to corner. If the cards ever get mixed up, you can put them back in
>>> order by making sure the diagonal line matches up.
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> bitcoin-dev mailing list
>>> bitcoin-dev at lists.linuxfoundation.org
>>> https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/bitcoin-dev
>>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> bitcoin-dev mailing list
>> bitcoin-dev at lists.linuxfoundation.org
>> https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/bitcoin-dev
>>
>
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Alan Evans [ARCHIVE] /
npub15s…htj94
2023-06-07 18:16:18
in reply to nevent1q…n62c
Author Public Key
npub15s37yxwtrf7cd83sujzneprwsjtvhjjxcygutpqk5f966093utms6htj94Published at
2023-06-07 18:16:18Event JSON
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"content": "📅 Original date posted:2019-02-06\n📝 Original message:Image didn't seem to attach:\n[image: image.png]\n\nOn Wed, 6 Feb 2019 at 09:48, Alan Evans \u003cthealanevans at gmail.com\u003e wrote:\n\n\u003e It's not quite enough to just do SHA512, you missed out this condition\n\u003e (incredibly rare as it is):\n\u003e\n\u003e \u003e In case IL is 0 or ≥n, the master key is invalid.\n\u003e\n\u003e Also I can't see how I would use this to seed a hardware wallet that\n\u003e requires a BIP39 seed as mentioned in your abstract.\n\u003e\n\u003e For both of those reasons, you may want to just invent/formalize a scheme\n\u003e that takes Cards -\u003e Entropy.\n\u003e From that Entropy one can generate BIP39, and non-BIP39 fans can just\n\u003e continue, generate and store their root xprv.\n\u003e\n\u003e Prior art: Note that Ian Coleman's BIP39 site already supports Cards (and\n\u003e Dice), see the logic here:\n\u003e https://github.com/iancoleman/bip39/blob/master/src/js/entropy.js\n\u003e\n\u003e [image: image.png]\n\u003e\n\u003e Note it detected \"full deck\". It also calculates the Total Bits of Entropy\n\u003e and can handle card replacement and multiple decks.\n\u003e\n\u003e PS, you're a bit out on your entropy calculation, log2(52!) ~= 225.58\n\u003e bits, not 219.\n\u003e\n\u003e\n\u003e On Tue, 5 Feb 2019 at 02:08, Devrandom via bitcoin-dev \u003c\n\u003e bitcoin-dev at lists.linuxfoundation.org\u003e wrote:\n\u003e\n\u003e\u003e I would suggest 50+ 6-sided dice rolls, giving about 128 bits of\n\u003e\u003e entropy. Compared to a shuffle, it's easier to be sure that you got the\n\u003e\u003e right amount of entropy, even if the dice are somewhat biased.\n\u003e\u003e\n\u003e\u003e\n\u003e\u003e On Mon, Feb 4, 2019 at 2:33 PM James MacWhyte via bitcoin-dev \u003c\n\u003e\u003e bitcoin-dev at lists.linuxfoundation.org\u003e wrote:\n\u003e\u003e\n\u003e\u003e\u003e\n\u003e\u003e\u003e James\n\u003e\u003e\u003e\n\u003e\u003e\u003e\n\u003e\u003e\u003e On Sun, Feb 3, 2019 at 10:27 AM Ryan Havar via bitcoin-dev \u003c\n\u003e\u003e\u003e bitcoin-dev at lists.linuxfoundation.org\u003e wrote:\n\u003e\u003e\u003e\n\u003e\u003e\u003e\u003e Conveniently a shuffled deck of cards also can serve as a physical\n\u003e\u003e\u003e\u003e backup which is easy to hide in plain sight with great plausible\n\u003e\u003e\u003e\u003e deniability.\n\u003e\u003e\u003e\u003e\n\u003e\u003e\u003e\n\u003e\u003e\u003e To make sure someone doesn't play with your cards and mix up the order,\n\u003e\u003e\u003e use a permanent marker to draw a diagonal line on the side of the deck from\n\u003e\u003e\u003e corner to corner. If the cards ever get mixed up, you can put them back in\n\u003e\u003e\u003e order by making sure the diagonal line matches up.\n\u003e\u003e\u003e _______________________________________________\n\u003e\u003e\u003e bitcoin-dev mailing list\n\u003e\u003e\u003e bitcoin-dev at lists.linuxfoundation.org\n\u003e\u003e\u003e https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/bitcoin-dev\n\u003e\u003e\u003e\n\u003e\u003e _______________________________________________\n\u003e\u003e bitcoin-dev mailing list\n\u003e\u003e bitcoin-dev at lists.linuxfoundation.org\n\u003e\u003e https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/bitcoin-dev\n\u003e\u003e\n\u003e\n-------------- next part --------------\nAn HTML attachment was scrubbed...\nURL: \u003chttp://lists.linuxfoundation.org/pipermail/bitcoin-dev/attachments/20190206/d8bfbbc6/attachment-0001.html\u003e\n-------------- next part --------------\nA non-text attachment was scrubbed...\nName: image.png\nType: image/png\nSize: 176797 bytes\nDesc: not available\nURL: \u003chttp://lists.linuxfoundation.org/pipermail/bitcoin-dev/attachments/20190206/d8bfbbc6/attachment-0001.png\u003e",
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