> It appears that it might be possible for CTV to create on-chain AMM-style marketplaces. On chain marketplaces create arbitrage opportunities which motivate people to pay for faster transactions:
That article doesn't mention AMMs at all. It mentioned inscription marketplaces, like Magic Eden, which is running today, where you need to construct a PSBT to create an "ask" for a Rune (you can't even do bids). They were talking about that creating some MEV.
> Please show me where the non-technical risks were discussed. I haven’t been able to find anything other than Peter identifying the risk of cheaper OOB payments.
Great question. Let's see what folks say:
https://x.com/matthewjablack/status/1838340344607355010
utxos.org is obviously a great resource. And mailing list for previous iterations of CTV
OpTech had some things to say: https://utxos.org/analysis/optech/
> We were previously discussing AMM style marketplaces.
AMM style marketplaces can't be built with CTV.
> I suggested that perhaps specific UTXOs could represent points on the hyperbolic constant product curve (x * y = k) that’s used in AMM marketplaces.
You can't do transaction introspection with CTV, so this isn't possible
> You haven’t yet shown me why it’s impossible to create AMM style marketplaces using CTV.
You haven't shown me how you can!
First of all, you need to do multiplication to do x * y = k. You don't have OP_MUL in Bitcoin script since it was disabled back in 2010 by Satoshi. You can emulate OP_MUL using CAT in order 1400 bytes. But you cannot emulate it with just CTV.
Bitmatrix ran into this problem when they were building an AMM on Liquid. They were able to get MUL working using OP_SUBSTR and OP_CAT:
https://medium.com/bit-matrix/technical-how-does-bitmatrix-v1-multiply-two-integers-in-the-absence-of-op-mul-a58b7a3794a3
However CTV doesn't enable MUL in any capacity. You cannot create an AMM if you cannot calculate the price after a swap occurs.
matthewjablack / Matt ₿lack ⚡️🍁 13% Bitcoiner
npub1wf…qsxhy
2024-09-23 22:25:29
in reply to nevent1q…hquh
Author Public Key
npub1wf7w8mrzqs3uvd8wsp774462d3rtttzwetuhpmzjccgn63emy4ls5qsxhyPublished at
2024-09-23 22:25:29Event JSON
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"content": "\u003e It appears that it might be possible for CTV to create on-chain AMM-style marketplaces. On chain marketplaces create arbitrage opportunities which motivate people to pay for faster transactions:\n\nThat article doesn't mention AMMs at all. It mentioned inscription marketplaces, like Magic Eden, which is running today, where you need to construct a PSBT to create an \"ask\" for a Rune (you can't even do bids). They were talking about that creating some MEV. \n\n\u003e Please show me where the non-technical risks were discussed. I haven’t been able to find anything other than Peter identifying the risk of cheaper OOB payments.\n\nGreat question. Let's see what folks say: \n\nhttps://x.com/matthewjablack/status/1838340344607355010\n\nutxos.org is obviously a great resource. And mailing list for previous iterations of CTV\n\nOpTech had some things to say: https://utxos.org/analysis/optech/\n\n\u003e We were previously discussing AMM style marketplaces.\n\nAMM style marketplaces can't be built with CTV.\n\n\u003e I suggested that perhaps specific UTXOs could represent points on the hyperbolic constant product curve (x * y = k) that’s used in AMM marketplaces.\n\nYou can't do transaction introspection with CTV, so this isn't possible \n\n\u003e You haven’t yet shown me why it’s impossible to create AMM style marketplaces using CTV.\n\nYou haven't shown me how you can! \n\nFirst of all, you need to do multiplication to do x * y = k. You don't have OP_MUL in Bitcoin script since it was disabled back in 2010 by Satoshi. You can emulate OP_MUL using CAT in order 1400 bytes. But you cannot emulate it with just CTV. \n\nBitmatrix ran into this problem when they were building an AMM on Liquid. They were able to get MUL working using OP_SUBSTR and OP_CAT:\n\nhttps://medium.com/bit-matrix/technical-how-does-bitmatrix-v1-multiply-two-integers-in-the-absence-of-op-mul-a58b7a3794a3\n\nHowever CTV doesn't enable MUL in any capacity. You cannot create an AMM if you cannot calculate the price after a swap occurs. ",
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