📅 Original date posted:2015-05-08
📝 Original message:On Fri, May 8, 2015 at 10:59 AM, Alan Reiner <etotheipi at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> This isn't about "everyone's coffee". This is about an absolute minimum
> amount of participation by people who wish to use the network. If our
> goal is really for bitcoin to really be a global, open transaction network
> that makes money fluid, then 7tps is already a failure. If even 5% of the
> world (350M people) was using the network for 1 tx per month (perhaps to
> open payment channels, or shift money between side chains), we'll be above
> 100 tps. And that doesn't include all the non-individuals (organizations)
> that want to use it.
>
> The goals of "a global transaction network" and "everyone must be able to
> run a full node with their $200 dell laptop" are not compatible. We need
> to accept that a global transaction system cannot be fully/constantly
> audited by everyone and their mother. The important feature of the network
> is that it is open and anyone *can* get the history and verify it. But not
> everyone is required to. Trying to promote a system where the history can
> be forever handled by a low-end PC is already falling out of reach, even
> with our miniscule 7 tps. Clinging to that goal needlessly limits the
> capability for the network to scale to be a useful global payments system
>
>
To repeat, the very first point in my email reply was: "Agree that 7 tps is
too low" Never was it said that bit
Therefore a reply arguing against the low end is nonsense, and the relevant
question remains on the table.
How high do you want to go - and can Layer 1 bitcoin really scale to get
there?
It is highly disappointing to see people endorse "moar bitcoin volume!"
with zero thinking behind that besides "adoption!" Need to actually
project what bitcoin looks like at the desired levels, what network
resources are required to get to those levels -- including traffic to serve
those SPV clients via P2P -- and then work backwards from that to see who
can support it, and then work backwards to discern a maximum tps.
--
Jeff Garzik
Bitcoin core developer and open source evangelist
BitPay, Inc. https://bitpay.com/
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Jeff Garzik [ARCHIVE] /
npub1kf…f3f58
2023-06-07 15:33:19
in reply to nevent1q…u86v
Author Public Key
npub1kf0ppcjaguxekg24yx6smgxlu73qn0k8lm0t2wrqc0scpl7u3sgsmf3f58Published at
2023-06-07 15:33:19Event JSON
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"content": "📅 Original date posted:2015-05-08\n📝 Original message:On Fri, May 8, 2015 at 10:59 AM, Alan Reiner \u003cetotheipi at gmail.com\u003e wrote:\n\n\u003e\n\u003e This isn't about \"everyone's coffee\". This is about an absolute minimum\n\u003e amount of participation by people who wish to use the network. If our\n\u003e goal is really for bitcoin to really be a global, open transaction network\n\u003e that makes money fluid, then 7tps is already a failure. If even 5% of the\n\u003e world (350M people) was using the network for 1 tx per month (perhaps to\n\u003e open payment channels, or shift money between side chains), we'll be above\n\u003e 100 tps. And that doesn't include all the non-individuals (organizations)\n\u003e that want to use it.\n\u003e\n\u003e The goals of \"a global transaction network\" and \"everyone must be able to\n\u003e run a full node with their $200 dell laptop\" are not compatible. We need\n\u003e to accept that a global transaction system cannot be fully/constantly\n\u003e audited by everyone and their mother. The important feature of the network\n\u003e is that it is open and anyone *can* get the history and verify it. But not\n\u003e everyone is required to. Trying to promote a system where the history can\n\u003e be forever handled by a low-end PC is already falling out of reach, even\n\u003e with our miniscule 7 tps. Clinging to that goal needlessly limits the\n\u003e capability for the network to scale to be a useful global payments system\n\u003e\n\u003e\nTo repeat, the very first point in my email reply was: \"Agree that 7 tps is\ntoo low\" Never was it said that bit\n\nTherefore a reply arguing against the low end is nonsense, and the relevant\nquestion remains on the table.\n\nHow high do you want to go - and can Layer 1 bitcoin really scale to get\nthere?\n\nIt is highly disappointing to see people endorse \"moar bitcoin volume!\"\nwith zero thinking behind that besides \"adoption!\" Need to actually\nproject what bitcoin looks like at the desired levels, what network\nresources are required to get to those levels -- including traffic to serve\nthose SPV clients via P2P -- and then work backwards from that to see who\ncan support it, and then work backwards to discern a maximum tps.\n\n-- \nJeff Garzik\nBitcoin core developer and open source evangelist\nBitPay, Inc. https://bitpay.com/\n-------------- next part --------------\nAn HTML attachment was scrubbed...\nURL: \u003chttp://lists.linuxfoundation.org/pipermail/bitcoin-dev/attachments/20150508/c0203dbe/attachment.html\u003e",
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