đź“… Original date posted:2015-09-02
đź“ť Original message:Thanks Warren, very good feedback.
To avoid taking up too much of everyone's time at this point, I
think Wladimir's suggestion of placing this in a BIP advisory box for a
while is a good one. We did indicate that this might take a while to
gestate.
It is probably for us to do some further investigations and possibly engage
some input from a few miners. We don't want to play at being lawyer, but
our review does point towards this being something worth coming back to.
In terms of citation, we did reference a case called *Feist*. We also found
some general database protection details which are relevant to the USA, if
you need any bed time reading:
http://copyright.gov/reports/dbase.html
For now, thanks to everyone for feedback and comments.
Regards,
Ahmed
On Wed, Sep 2, 2015 at 9:56 AM, Warren Togami Jr. via bitcoin-dev <
bitcoin-dev at lists.linuxfoundation.org> wrote:
> I am skeptical that any license for the blockchain itself is needed
> because of the possibility that the blockchain is not entitled to copyright
> protection. While I am not a lawyer, I have stared hard at the copyright
> doctrine of the U.S. in multiple law school Intellectual Property courses
> and during my previous career in Open Source Software where copyright
> matters a great deal.
>
> As each owner of a
>> coin makes a transfer by digitally signing a hash of the previous
>> transaction along with the
>> new owner’s public key, the block chain is a perpetual compilation of
>> unique data.
>> *It is therefore compiled in a creative and non-obvious way.* In the
>> USA, for example, these
>> attributes confer legal protections for databases which have been ruled
>> upon by the courts.
>
>
> This portion of your paper I believe is not true and requires citations if
> you want to be convincing. Is it truly "creative and non-obvious"? My
> understanding under at least U.S. law, the blockchain may not be entitled
> to copyright protection because a compilation created in a mechanical
> manner is not a creative work of a human.
>
> I suppose a transaction could contain a "creative" element if it contains
> arbitrary bytes of a message or clever script. For the most part though
> most of what you call "digitally signing a hash of the previous transaction
> along with the new owner’s public key" is purely the result of a mechanical
> process and really is not creative. Furthermore, even if that output were
> "non-obvious", obviousness has nothing to do with copyrightability.
>
> Your license is correct in intent in attempting to exclude from the
> royalty free grant works within the blockchain that themselves may be
> subject to copyright of third parties. The elements within the blockchain
> may be entitled individually to copyright if they are in any way a creative
> work of a human, but as a compilation I am doubtful the blockchain itself
> is entitled to copyright.
>
> I understand copyright with respect to databases can be different under
> other jurisdictions. Your paper mentions the European database law that is
> indeed different from the U.S. Your paper is incomplete in scholarly and
> legal citations. I myself and we as a community don't know enough. I
> suppose this topic merits further study.
>
> Warren Togami
>
> On Tue, Sep 1, 2015 at 6:30 AM, Ahmed Zsales via bitcoin-dev <
> bitcoin-dev at lists.linuxfoundation.org> wrote:
>
>> Hello,
>>
>> We believe the network requires a block chain licence to supplement the
>> existing MIT Licence which we believe only covers the core reference client
>> software.
>>
>> Replacing or amending the existing MIT Licence is beyond the scope of
>> this draft BIP.
>>
>> Rationale and details of our draft BIP for discussion and evaluation are
>> here:
>>
>>
>> https://drive.google.com/file/d/0BwEbhrQ4ELzBMVFxajNZa2hzMTg/view?usp=sharing
>>
>> Regards,
>>
>> Ahmed
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> bitcoin-dev mailing list
>> bitcoin-dev at lists.linuxfoundation.org
>> https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/bitcoin-dev
>>
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> bitcoin-dev mailing list
> bitcoin-dev at lists.linuxfoundation.org
> https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/bitcoin-dev
>
>
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Ahmed Zsales [ARCHIVE] /
npub105…lgz5a
2023-06-07 17:39:06
in reply to nevent1q…0vjc
Author Public Key
npub105eg2ny7gs448umtlsn4ns4slc5q3se8wpnzhtr22j8sgdrv2q7stlgz5aPublished at
2023-06-07 17:39:06Event JSON
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"content": "📅 Original date posted:2015-09-02\n📝 Original message:Thanks Warren, very good feedback.\n\nTo avoid taking up too much of everyone's time at this point, I\nthink Wladimir's suggestion of placing this in a BIP advisory box for a\nwhile is a good one. We did indicate that this might take a while to\ngestate.\n\nIt is probably for us to do some further investigations and possibly engage\nsome input from a few miners. We don't want to play at being lawyer, but\nour review does point towards this being something worth coming back to.\n\nIn terms of citation, we did reference a case called *Feist*. We also found\nsome general database protection details which are relevant to the USA, if\nyou need any bed time reading:\n\nhttp://copyright.gov/reports/dbase.html\n\nFor now, thanks to everyone for feedback and comments.\n\nRegards,\n\nAhmed\n\nOn Wed, Sep 2, 2015 at 9:56 AM, Warren Togami Jr. via bitcoin-dev \u003c\nbitcoin-dev at lists.linuxfoundation.org\u003e wrote:\n\n\u003e I am skeptical that any license for the blockchain itself is needed\n\u003e because of the possibility that the blockchain is not entitled to copyright\n\u003e protection. While I am not a lawyer, I have stared hard at the copyright\n\u003e doctrine of the U.S. in multiple law school Intellectual Property courses\n\u003e and during my previous career in Open Source Software where copyright\n\u003e matters a great deal.\n\u003e\n\u003e As each owner of a\n\u003e\u003e coin makes a transfer by digitally signing a hash of the previous\n\u003e\u003e transaction along with the\n\u003e\u003e new owner’s public key, the block chain is a perpetual compilation of\n\u003e\u003e unique data.\n\u003e\u003e *It is therefore compiled in a creative and non-obvious way.* In the\n\u003e\u003e USA, for example, these\n\u003e\u003e attributes confer legal protections for databases which have been ruled\n\u003e\u003e upon by the courts.\n\u003e\n\u003e\n\u003e This portion of your paper I believe is not true and requires citations if\n\u003e you want to be convincing. Is it truly \"creative and non-obvious\"? My\n\u003e understanding under at least U.S. law, the blockchain may not be entitled\n\u003e to copyright protection because a compilation created in a mechanical\n\u003e manner is not a creative work of a human.\n\u003e\n\u003e I suppose a transaction could contain a \"creative\" element if it contains\n\u003e arbitrary bytes of a message or clever script. For the most part though\n\u003e most of what you call \"digitally signing a hash of the previous transaction\n\u003e along with the new owner’s public key\" is purely the result of a mechanical\n\u003e process and really is not creative. Furthermore, even if that output were\n\u003e \"non-obvious\", obviousness has nothing to do with copyrightability.\n\u003e\n\u003e Your license is correct in intent in attempting to exclude from the\n\u003e royalty free grant works within the blockchain that themselves may be\n\u003e subject to copyright of third parties. The elements within the blockchain\n\u003e may be entitled individually to copyright if they are in any way a creative\n\u003e work of a human, but as a compilation I am doubtful the blockchain itself\n\u003e is entitled to copyright.\n\u003e\n\u003e I understand copyright with respect to databases can be different under\n\u003e other jurisdictions. Your paper mentions the European database law that is\n\u003e indeed different from the U.S. Your paper is incomplete in scholarly and\n\u003e legal citations. I myself and we as a community don't know enough. I\n\u003e suppose this topic merits further study.\n\u003e\n\u003e Warren Togami\n\u003e\n\u003e On Tue, Sep 1, 2015 at 6:30 AM, Ahmed Zsales via bitcoin-dev \u003c\n\u003e bitcoin-dev at lists.linuxfoundation.org\u003e wrote:\n\u003e\n\u003e\u003e Hello,\n\u003e\u003e\n\u003e\u003e We believe the network requires a block chain licence to supplement the\n\u003e\u003e existing MIT Licence which we believe only covers the core reference client\n\u003e\u003e software.\n\u003e\u003e\n\u003e\u003e Replacing or amending the existing MIT Licence is beyond the scope of\n\u003e\u003e this draft BIP.\n\u003e\u003e\n\u003e\u003e Rationale and details of our draft BIP for discussion and evaluation are\n\u003e\u003e here:\n\u003e\u003e\n\u003e\u003e\n\u003e\u003e https://drive.google.com/file/d/0BwEbhrQ4ELzBMVFxajNZa2hzMTg/view?usp=sharing\n\u003e\u003e\n\u003e\u003e Regards,\n\u003e\u003e\n\u003e\u003e Ahmed\n\u003e\u003e\n\u003e\u003e _______________________________________________\n\u003e\u003e bitcoin-dev mailing list\n\u003e\u003e bitcoin-dev at lists.linuxfoundation.org\n\u003e\u003e https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/bitcoin-dev\n\u003e\u003e\n\u003e\u003e\n\u003e\n\u003e _______________________________________________\n\u003e bitcoin-dev mailing list\n\u003e bitcoin-dev at lists.linuxfoundation.org\n\u003e https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/bitcoin-dev\n\u003e\n\u003e\n-------------- next part --------------\nAn HTML attachment was scrubbed...\nURL: \u003chttp://lists.linuxfoundation.org/pipermail/bitcoin-dev/attachments/20150902/e322b19b/attachment.html\u003e",
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