📅 Original date posted:2019-10-10
📝 Original message:
Hi all,
I've been looking at the current lightning network fees, and it
shows that 2/3 are sitting on the default (1000 msat + 1 ppm).
This has two problems:
1. Low fees are now a negative signal: defaults actually indicate
lower reliability, and routing gets tarpitted trying them all.
2. There's no meaningful market signal in fees, since you can't
drop much below 1ppm.
Compare lightningpowerusers.com which charges (10000 msat + 5000 ppm),
and seems to have significant usage, so there clearly is market
tolerance for higher fees.
I am proposing that as of next release of c-lighting, we change defaults
on new channels to 5000 msat + 500ppm, and I'd like the other
implementations to join me.
Over time, that should move the noise floor up. I picked 500ppm because
that's still 1% at 20 hops, so minimally centralizing. I picked 5000
msat base for less quantifiable reasons.
Here's default fee a rate table in USD (@10k per BTC):
Amount Before After
0.1c 0.0100001c 0.05005c
1c 0.010001c 0.0505c
10c 0.01001c 0.055c
$1 0.0101c 0.1c
$10 0.011c 0.55c
$100 0.02c 5.05c
$1000 0.11c 50.05c
Thoughts?
Rusty.
Rusty Russell [ARCHIVE] /
npub1zw…hkhpx
2023-06-09 12:56:39
in reply to nevent1q…5s2j
Author Public Key
npub1zw7cc8z78v6s3grujfvcv3ckpvg6kr0w7nz9yzvwyglyg0qu5sjsqhkhpxPublished at
2023-06-09 12:56:39Event JSON
{
"id": "920ac556ee40b1a0bb8d0574de39a1d41852d092485c31bb72c1e8b39d306bbd",
"pubkey": "13bd8c1c5e3b3508a07c92598647160b11ab0deef4c452098e223e443c1ca425",
"created_at": 1686315399,
"kind": 1,
"tags": [
[
"e",
"eb6b7bcfcd5d5efceb890b00c820b1fdd161ea7f8e6df8eda73675097dc6b419",
"",
"reply"
],
[
"p",
"9456f7acb763eaab2e02bd8e60cf17df74f352c2ae579dce1f1dd25c95dd611c"
]
],
"content": "📅 Original date posted:2019-10-10\n📝 Original message:\nHi all,\n\n I've been looking at the current lightning network fees, and it\nshows that 2/3 are sitting on the default (1000 msat + 1 ppm).\n\nThis has two problems:\n1. Low fees are now a negative signal: defaults actually indicate\n lower reliability, and routing gets tarpitted trying them all.\n2. There's no meaningful market signal in fees, since you can't\n drop much below 1ppm.\n\nCompare lightningpowerusers.com which charges (10000 msat + 5000 ppm),\nand seems to have significant usage, so there clearly is market\ntolerance for higher fees.\n\nI am proposing that as of next release of c-lighting, we change defaults\non new channels to 5000 msat + 500ppm, and I'd like the other\nimplementations to join me.\n\nOver time, that should move the noise floor up. I picked 500ppm because\nthat's still 1% at 20 hops, so minimally centralizing. I picked 5000\nmsat base for less quantifiable reasons.\n\nHere's default fee a rate table in USD (@10k per BTC):\n\nAmount Before After\n0.1c 0.0100001c 0.05005c\n1c 0.010001c 0.0505c\n10c 0.01001c 0.055c\n$1 0.0101c 0.1c\n$10 0.011c 0.55c\n$100 0.02c 5.05c\n$1000 0.11c 50.05c\n\nThoughts?\nRusty.",
"sig": "c926346a2fbb444e0b68fd98a76bc099cebc06e170bb15c64d2f7faf9631d9351c96d46a720811b7b5c413f0ce9f87a557ec4c6075d255f63117e440daa30e8e"
}