📅 Original date posted:2022-02-18
📝 Original message:
On Thu, Feb 10, 2022 at 12:08:59AM -0800, Jeremy Rubin wrote:
> That's not really pinning; painning usually refers to pinning something to
> the bottom of the mempool whereas these mechanisms make it easier to
> guarantee that progress can be made on confirming the transactions you're
> interested in.
As I said, it's a new kind of pinning attack, distinct from other types of
pinning attack.
> Often times in these protocols "the call is coming inside the house". It's
> not a third party adding fees we are scared of, it's a direct party to the
> protocol!
Often times that is true. But other times that is not true! I gave examples of
use-cases where being able to arbitrary add fees to transactions is harmful;
the onus is on you to argue why that is acceptable to burden those users with a
new class of attack.
> Sponsors or fee accounts would enable you to ensure the protocol you're
> working on makes forward progress. For things like Eltoo the internal
> ratchet makes this work well.
>
> Protocols which depend on in mempool replacements before confirmation
> already must be happy (should they be secure) with any prior state being
> mined. If a third party pays the fee you might even be happier since the
> execution wasn't on your dime.
"Must be able to deal with" is not the same thing as "Must be happy". While
those use-cases do have to deal with those exceptional cases happening
occasionally, it's harmful if an attacker can harass you by making those
exceptional cases happen frequently.
--
https://petertodd.org 'peter'[:-1]@petertodd.org
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Peter Todd [ARCHIVE] /
npub1m2…a2np2
2023-06-09 13:05:08
in reply to nevent1q…mrth
Author Public Key
npub1m230cem2yh3mtdzkg32qhj73uytgkyg5ylxsu083n3tpjnajxx4qqa2np2Published at
2023-06-09 13:05:08Event JSON
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"content": "📅 Original date posted:2022-02-18\n📝 Original message:\nOn Thu, Feb 10, 2022 at 12:08:59AM -0800, Jeremy Rubin wrote:\n\u003e That's not really pinning; painning usually refers to pinning something to\n\u003e the bottom of the mempool whereas these mechanisms make it easier to\n\u003e guarantee that progress can be made on confirming the transactions you're\n\u003e interested in.\n\nAs I said, it's a new kind of pinning attack, distinct from other types of\npinning attack.\n\n\u003e Often times in these protocols \"the call is coming inside the house\". It's\n\u003e not a third party adding fees we are scared of, it's a direct party to the\n\u003e protocol!\n\nOften times that is true. But other times that is not true! I gave examples of\nuse-cases where being able to arbitrary add fees to transactions is harmful;\nthe onus is on you to argue why that is acceptable to burden those users with a\nnew class of attack.\n\n\u003e Sponsors or fee accounts would enable you to ensure the protocol you're\n\u003e working on makes forward progress. For things like Eltoo the internal\n\u003e ratchet makes this work well.\n\u003e \n\u003e Protocols which depend on in mempool replacements before confirmation\n\u003e already must be happy (should they be secure) with any prior state being\n\u003e mined. If a third party pays the fee you might even be happier since the\n\u003e execution wasn't on your dime.\n\n\"Must be able to deal with\" is not the same thing as \"Must be happy\". While\nthose use-cases do have to deal with those exceptional cases happening\noccasionally, it's harmful if an attacker can harass you by making those\nexceptional cases happen frequently.\n\n-- \nhttps://petertodd.org 'peter'[:-1]@petertodd.org\n-------------- next part --------------\nA non-text attachment was scrubbed...\nName: signature.asc\nType: application/pgp-signature\nSize: 833 bytes\nDesc: not available\nURL: \u003chttp://lists.linuxfoundation.org/pipermail/lightning-dev/attachments/20220218/ffb7a6b7/attachment.sig\u003e",
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