Hello again, Brother,
I appreciate your interaction and comments.🙏🏻😁
>"The Apostle Paul clearly taught in Romans 13 that God has ordained the existence of civil authorities of some form..."
Yes, but I can see that you are viewing things through a thick filter of reformed theological tradition. I urge you to set aside those glasses, at least for a minute, and consider the biblical evidence from a fresh perspective.
The core problem here is an egregious category error... And, at the risk of trying to be humorous, I'll mention that there are two kinds of people in the world; those who divide the world into two kinds of people, and everyone else...😜🤣
The reformers certainly faced and dealt with many serious errors of the Roman Catholic church (e.g. paid indulgences), however they were not without severe faults of their own. Perhaps the great-grandaddy of reformation flaws--an error that plagues us to this day--is that the reformers divided the world into "spheres of authority," and in the process miscategorized and erroneously identified two of those spheres. This error has in more modern times been formalized by a politician, Abraham Kuyper, as "Sphere Sovereignty:"
https://www.monergism.com/sphere-sovereignty-ebook
The specific error of Sphere Sovereignty is this: dividing the world into two spheres (so far, so good), but then misidentifying the spheres as "church" v "civil government."
The authentic Biblical categories, clearly seen from Genesis to Revelation, are different. The world is in truth divided into "The Kingdom of Jesus/God/The Heavens" and "the kingdom of satan." A corollary observation is that ALL the nation-states of the world fall into the latter category, including the USA.
>"Paul was not speaking of some idealized government when he said this, either. He was speaking of the corrupt Roman empire."
Are you certain about that? Paul makes assertions in Romans 13 that CANNOT POSSIBLY be describing the Roman empire (or the USA):
https://peakd.com/christianity/@creatr/this-is-not-that-a-comment-on-romans-13
The ecclesia (poorly translated "church;" better "assembly") was the local body that governed cities in Paul's day, and I believe he WAS speaking of God's ideal form of government. Here's an article that compares and contrasts satanic state governments and God's ideal:
https://peakd.com/kingdom/@creatr/the-state-or-god-s-kingdom-a-comparison-chart
>"Jesus rules over his church, throughout the world, and he rules over all else, including civil authorities, via his sovereign providence. Ruling over all things through his church is something we look forward to when he returns and we can finally beat our swords into plowshares. That day is not today."
We are at least partially in agreement here; Jesus is presently *taking over* the rule of the entire world, one lost sheep at a time. He has "bound the strong man" and is plundering his household. He is in the process of DESTROYING all the nation-states, calling his people out of them (exodus) and into his ecclesia, where all rule is voluntary. That day IS today, though it won't be completed until the very end.
https://peakd.com/christianity/@creatr/lunch-with-a-friend-the-outcome
Thank you for your feedback; it always helps my thinking to hear a brother's alternate perspective.🙏🏻😆
Duncan Cary Palmer
npub1cx…mexlq
2024-10-26 21:04:29
in reply to nevent1q…u4ca
Author Public Key
npub1cxp3l03x20mkzezzr4takm8w8zuva7xwvacmcewp97z58hjt8xls3mexlqPublished at
2024-10-26 21:04:29Event JSON
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"content": "Hello again, Brother,\n\nI appreciate your interaction and comments.🙏🏻😁\n\n\u003e\"The Apostle Paul clearly taught in Romans 13 that God has ordained the existence of civil authorities of some form...\"\n\nYes, but I can see that you are viewing things through a thick filter of reformed theological tradition. I urge you to set aside those glasses, at least for a minute, and consider the biblical evidence from a fresh perspective.\n\nThe core problem here is an egregious category error... And, at the risk of trying to be humorous, I'll mention that there are two kinds of people in the world; those who divide the world into two kinds of people, and everyone else...😜🤣 \n\nThe reformers certainly faced and dealt with many serious errors of the Roman Catholic church (e.g. paid indulgences), however they were not without severe faults of their own. Perhaps the great-grandaddy of reformation flaws--an error that plagues us to this day--is that the reformers divided the world into \"spheres of authority,\" and in the process miscategorized and erroneously identified two of those spheres. This error has in more modern times been formalized by a politician, Abraham Kuyper, as \"Sphere Sovereignty:\"\n\nhttps://www.monergism.com/sphere-sovereignty-ebook\n\nThe specific error of Sphere Sovereignty is this: dividing the world into two spheres (so far, so good), but then misidentifying the spheres as \"church\" v \"civil government.\"\n\nThe authentic Biblical categories, clearly seen from Genesis to Revelation, are different. The world is in truth divided into \"The Kingdom of Jesus/God/The Heavens\" and \"the kingdom of satan.\" A corollary observation is that ALL the nation-states of the world fall into the latter category, including the USA.\n\n\u003e\"Paul was not speaking of some idealized government when he said this, either. He was speaking of the corrupt Roman empire.\"\n\nAre you certain about that? Paul makes assertions in Romans 13 that CANNOT POSSIBLY be describing the Roman empire (or the USA):\n\n https://peakd.com/christianity/@creatr/this-is-not-that-a-comment-on-romans-13\n\nThe ecclesia (poorly translated \"church;\" better \"assembly\") was the local body that governed cities in Paul's day, and I believe he WAS speaking of God's ideal form of government. Here's an article that compares and contrasts satanic state governments and God's ideal:\n\n https://peakd.com/kingdom/@creatr/the-state-or-god-s-kingdom-a-comparison-chart\n \n\u003e\"Jesus rules over his church, throughout the world, and he rules over all else, including civil authorities, via his sovereign providence. Ruling over all things through his church is something we look forward to when he returns and we can finally beat our swords into plowshares. That day is not today.\"\n \nWe are at least partially in agreement here; Jesus is presently *taking over* the rule of the entire world, one lost sheep at a time. He has \"bound the strong man\" and is plundering his household. He is in the process of DESTROYING all the nation-states, calling his people out of them (exodus) and into his ecclesia, where all rule is voluntary. That day IS today, though it won't be completed until the very end.\n\n https://peakd.com/christianity/@creatr/lunch-with-a-friend-the-outcome\n\nThank you for your feedback; it always helps my thinking to hear a brother's alternate perspective.🙏🏻😆",
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