📅 Original date posted:2013-07-09
📝 Original message:Modern Java versions let you bundle the app with a stripped down JVM. I
don't know if Jim does that, but I think it's an obvious step towards
making MultiBit friendlier and easier to use.
BTW I believe most secure browsers (Chrome, Firefox) have banned the applet
plugin or severely restrained it anyway. So even if you install the JVM and
plugin together there is not an issue.
On Tue, Jul 9, 2013 at 3:20 AM, Caleb James DeLisle <
calebdelisle at lavabit.com> wrote:
> Java (Applet) security is indeed abysmal but lets compare apples to apples.
> With an applet some random guy with a website makes up some Java code and
> your browser automatically executes it.
> With Multibit you're only executing highly trusted code (so trusted that it
> handles your money).
> There has almost never been a Java exploit against secure trusted code.
>
> The idea of discouraging use of java apps just because people would be
> tricked into activating the browser plugin when installing the JVM is
> probably valid but Multibit is the only reasonably complete client outside
> of bitcoinqt and I think client diversity is more important than stamping
> out java.
>
> Thanks,
> Caleb
>
>
> On 07/08/2013 08:22 PM, Robert Backhaus wrote:
> > But... Multibit is Java. Java's security problems has made it an instant
> uninstall item on windows PCs for about a year now. Java exploits are a
> dime a dozen.
> >
> > Yes, you can reduce some of the problems by manually disabling the
> browser plugin, but how many users will do that?
> >
> > Recommending a fast SPV client as a first wallet - yes, of course.
> Recommending users open such a huge attack interface on their computers by
> installing Java - No go. Until Multibit is provided as a compiled binary
> without a Java dependency, it is DOA.
> >
> >
> > On 1 July 2013 02:39, Gary Rowe <g.rowe at froot.co.uk <mailto:
> g.rowe at froot.co.uk>> wrote:
> >
> > I've beefed up the supporting documentation for the website to make
> it more accessible for developers who wish to contribute. It's a Java
> application serving HTML.
> >
> > It can be found here: https://github.com/jim618/multibit-website
> >
> >
> > On 30 June 2013 16:19, Jim <jim618 at fastmail.co.uk <mailto:
> jim618 at fastmail.co.uk>> wrote:
> >
> > Yeah "email jim' was never going to work so I have
> > bumped up MultiBit support (a bit) by:
> >
> > + having a dedicated Support page on the website
> > https://multibit.org/support.html
> > It has fixes and support notes for the most common gotchas.
> > + the in-app help also now has a 'Support' section with
> > "Troubleshooting' and the commonest gotchas.
> > I've also written more help to cover as much as possible.
> > + Failing that people are directed first to
> bitcoin.stackchange.com <http://bitcoin.stackchange.com>;
> > (I have a notification set up for the 'multibit' keyword.
> > + Then finally users are directed to the github issues to search
> > existing or raise a new issue. Gary and Tim often chip in on
> there to
> > close
> > issues down as well as me.
> >
> >
> >
> > On Sun, Jun 30, 2013, at 12:42 PM, Mike Hearn wrote:
> > > Sounds like we have consensus, Saivann, shall we do it?
> > >
> > > I'm also going to ask Theymos again to relax the newbie
> restrictions
> > > for the alt client forums. It's probably too hard to get
> support at
> > > the moment and "email jim" doesn't scale at all.
> > >
> > > On Fri, Jun 28, 2013 at 4:24 PM, Gavin Andresen <
> gavinandresen at gmail.com <mailto:gavinandresen at gmail.com>>
> > > wrote:
> > > > I vote "yes" to have MultiBit replace Bitcoin-Qt as the
> recommended
> > > > desktop wallet app. I think most users will be happier with
> it.
> > > >
> > > > If I'm wrong, it is easy to change back.
> > > >
> > > >
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > > > This SF.net email is sponsored by Windows:
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> > > > Build for Windows Store.
> > > >
> > > > http://p.sf.net/sfu/windows-dev2dev
> > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > Bitcoin-development mailing list
> > > > Bitcoin-development at lists.sourceforge.net <mailto:
> Bitcoin-development at lists.sourceforge.net>
> > > >
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bitcoin-development
> > >
> > >
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > > This SF.net email is sponsored by Windows:
> > >
> > > Build for Windows Store.
> > >
> > > http://p.sf.net/sfu/windows-dev2dev
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Bitcoin-development mailing list
> > > Bitcoin-development at lists.sourceforge.net <mailto:
> Bitcoin-development at lists.sourceforge.net>
> > >
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bitcoin-development
> >
> >
> > --
> > https://multibit.org Money, reinvented
> >
> >
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > This SF.net email is sponsored by Windows:
> >
> > Build for Windows Store.
> >
> > http://p.sf.net/sfu/windows-dev2dev
> > _______________________________________________
> > Bitcoin-development mailing list
> > Bitcoin-development at lists.sourceforge.net <mailto:
> Bitcoin-development at lists.sourceforge.net>
> > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bitcoin-development
> >
> >
> >
> >
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > This SF.net email is sponsored by Windows:
> >
> > Build for Windows Store.
> >
> > http://p.sf.net/sfu/windows-dev2dev
> > _______________________________________________
> > Bitcoin-development mailing list
> > Bitcoin-development at lists.sourceforge.net <mailto:
> Bitcoin-development at lists.sourceforge.net>
> > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bitcoin-development
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > See everything from the browser to the database with AppDynamics
> > Get end-to-end visibility with application monitoring from AppDynamics
> > Isolate bottlenecks and diagnose root cause in seconds.
> > Start your free trial of AppDynamics Pro today!
> >
> http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=48808831&iu=/4140/ostg.clktrk
> >
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Bitcoin-development mailing list
> > Bitcoin-development at lists.sourceforge.net
> > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bitcoin-development
> >
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> See everything from the browser to the database with AppDynamics
> Get end-to-end visibility with application monitoring from AppDynamics
> Isolate bottlenecks and diagnose root cause in seconds.
> Start your free trial of AppDynamics Pro today!
> http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=48808831&iu=/4140/ostg.clktrk
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Mike Hearn [ARCHIVE] /
npub17t…4qgyd
2023-06-07 15:04:22
in reply to nevent1q…t6yq
Author Public Key
npub17ty4mumkv43w8wtt0xsz2jypck0gvw0j8xrcg6tpea25z2nh7meqf4qgydPublished at
2023-06-07 15:04:22Event JSON
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"content": "📅 Original date posted:2013-07-09\n📝 Original message:Modern Java versions let you bundle the app with a stripped down JVM. I\ndon't know if Jim does that, but I think it's an obvious step towards\nmaking MultiBit friendlier and easier to use.\n\nBTW I believe most secure browsers (Chrome, Firefox) have banned the applet\nplugin or severely restrained it anyway. So even if you install the JVM and\nplugin together there is not an issue.\n\n\nOn Tue, Jul 9, 2013 at 3:20 AM, Caleb James DeLisle \u003c\ncalebdelisle at lavabit.com\u003e wrote:\n\n\u003e Java (Applet) security is indeed abysmal but lets compare apples to apples.\n\u003e With an applet some random guy with a website makes up some Java code and\n\u003e your browser automatically executes it.\n\u003e With Multibit you're only executing highly trusted code (so trusted that it\n\u003e handles your money).\n\u003e There has almost never been a Java exploit against secure trusted code.\n\u003e\n\u003e The idea of discouraging use of java apps just because people would be\n\u003e tricked into activating the browser plugin when installing the JVM is\n\u003e probably valid but Multibit is the only reasonably complete client outside\n\u003e of bitcoinqt and I think client diversity is more important than stamping\n\u003e out java.\n\u003e\n\u003e Thanks,\n\u003e Caleb\n\u003e\n\u003e\n\u003e On 07/08/2013 08:22 PM, Robert Backhaus wrote:\n\u003e \u003e But... Multibit is Java. Java's security problems has made it an instant\n\u003e uninstall item on windows PCs for about a year now. Java exploits are a\n\u003e dime a dozen.\n\u003e \u003e\n\u003e \u003e Yes, you can reduce some of the problems by manually disabling the\n\u003e browser plugin, but how many users will do that?\n\u003e \u003e\n\u003e \u003e Recommending a fast SPV client as a first wallet - yes, of course.\n\u003e Recommending users open such a huge attack interface on their computers by\n\u003e installing Java - No go. Until Multibit is provided as a compiled binary\n\u003e without a Java dependency, it is DOA.\n\u003e \u003e\n\u003e \u003e\n\u003e \u003e On 1 July 2013 02:39, Gary Rowe \u003cg.rowe at froot.co.uk \u003cmailto:\n\u003e g.rowe at froot.co.uk\u003e\u003e wrote:\n\u003e \u003e\n\u003e \u003e I've beefed up the supporting documentation for the website to make\n\u003e it more accessible for developers who wish to contribute. It's a Java\n\u003e application serving HTML.\n\u003e \u003e\n\u003e \u003e It can be found here: https://github.com/jim618/multibit-website\n\u003e \u003e\n\u003e \u003e\n\u003e \u003e On 30 June 2013 16:19, Jim \u003cjim618 at fastmail.co.uk \u003cmailto:\n\u003e jim618 at fastmail.co.uk\u003e\u003e wrote:\n\u003e \u003e\n\u003e \u003e Yeah \"email jim' was never going to work so I have\n\u003e \u003e bumped up MultiBit support (a bit) by:\n\u003e \u003e\n\u003e \u003e + having a dedicated Support page on the website\n\u003e \u003e https://multibit.org/support.html\n\u003e \u003e It has fixes and support notes for the most common gotchas.\n\u003e \u003e + the in-app help also now has a 'Support' section with\n\u003e \u003e \"Troubleshooting' and the commonest gotchas.\n\u003e \u003e I've also written more help to cover as much as possible.\n\u003e \u003e + Failing that people are directed first to\n\u003e bitcoin.stackchange.com \u003chttp://bitcoin.stackchange.com\u003e\n\u003e \u003e (I have a notification set up for the 'multibit' keyword.\n\u003e \u003e + Then finally users are directed to the github issues to search\n\u003e \u003e existing or raise a new issue. Gary and Tim often chip in on\n\u003e there to\n\u003e \u003e close\n\u003e \u003e issues down as well as me.\n\u003e \u003e\n\u003e \u003e\n\u003e \u003e\n\u003e \u003e On Sun, Jun 30, 2013, at 12:42 PM, Mike Hearn wrote:\n\u003e \u003e \u003e Sounds like we have consensus, Saivann, shall we do it?\n\u003e \u003e \u003e\n\u003e \u003e \u003e I'm also going to ask Theymos again to relax the newbie\n\u003e restrictions\n\u003e \u003e \u003e for the alt client forums. It's probably too hard to get\n\u003e support at\n\u003e \u003e \u003e the moment and \"email jim\" doesn't scale at all.\n\u003e \u003e \u003e\n\u003e \u003e \u003e On Fri, Jun 28, 2013 at 4:24 PM, Gavin Andresen \u003c\n\u003e gavinandresen at gmail.com \u003cmailto:gavinandresen at gmail.com\u003e\u003e\n\u003e \u003e \u003e wrote:\n\u003e \u003e \u003e \u003e I vote \"yes\" to have MultiBit replace Bitcoin-Qt as the\n\u003e recommended\n\u003e \u003e \u003e \u003e desktop wallet app. I think most users will be happier with\n\u003e it.\n\u003e \u003e \u003e \u003e\n\u003e \u003e \u003e \u003e If I'm wrong, it is easy to change back.\n\u003e \u003e \u003e \u003e\n\u003e \u003e \u003e \u003e\n\u003e ------------------------------------------------------------------------------\n\u003e \u003e \u003e \u003e This SF.net email is sponsored by Windows:\n\u003e \u003e \u003e \u003e\n\u003e \u003e \u003e \u003e Build for Windows Store.\n\u003e \u003e \u003e \u003e\n\u003e \u003e \u003e \u003e http://p.sf.net/sfu/windows-dev2dev\n\u003e \u003e \u003e \u003e _______________________________________________\n\u003e \u003e \u003e \u003e Bitcoin-development mailing list\n\u003e \u003e \u003e \u003e Bitcoin-development at lists.sourceforge.net \u003cmailto:\n\u003e Bitcoin-development at lists.sourceforge.net\u003e\n\u003e \u003e \u003e \u003e\n\u003e https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bitcoin-development\n\u003e \u003e \u003e\n\u003e \u003e \u003e\n\u003e ------------------------------------------------------------------------------\n\u003e \u003e \u003e This SF.net email is sponsored by Windows:\n\u003e \u003e \u003e\n\u003e \u003e \u003e Build for Windows Store.\n\u003e \u003e \u003e\n\u003e \u003e \u003e http://p.sf.net/sfu/windows-dev2dev\n\u003e \u003e \u003e _______________________________________________\n\u003e \u003e \u003e Bitcoin-development mailing list\n\u003e \u003e \u003e Bitcoin-development at lists.sourceforge.net \u003cmailto:\n\u003e Bitcoin-development at lists.sourceforge.net\u003e\n\u003e \u003e \u003e\n\u003e https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bitcoin-development\n\u003e \u003e\n\u003e \u003e\n\u003e \u003e --\n\u003e \u003e https://multibit.org Money, reinvented\n\u003e \u003e\n\u003e \u003e\n\u003e ------------------------------------------------------------------------------\n\u003e \u003e This SF.net email is sponsored by Windows:\n\u003e \u003e\n\u003e \u003e Build for Windows Store.\n\u003e \u003e\n\u003e \u003e http://p.sf.net/sfu/windows-dev2dev\n\u003e \u003e _______________________________________________\n\u003e \u003e Bitcoin-development mailing list\n\u003e \u003e Bitcoin-development at lists.sourceforge.net \u003cmailto:\n\u003e Bitcoin-development at lists.sourceforge.net\u003e\n\u003e \u003e https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bitcoin-development\n\u003e \u003e\n\u003e \u003e\n\u003e \u003e\n\u003e \u003e\n\u003e ------------------------------------------------------------------------------\n\u003e \u003e This SF.net email is sponsored by Windows:\n\u003e \u003e\n\u003e \u003e Build for Windows Store.\n\u003e \u003e\n\u003e \u003e http://p.sf.net/sfu/windows-dev2dev\n\u003e \u003e _______________________________________________\n\u003e \u003e Bitcoin-development mailing list\n\u003e \u003e Bitcoin-development at lists.sourceforge.net \u003cmailto:\n\u003e Bitcoin-development at lists.sourceforge.net\u003e\n\u003e \u003e https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bitcoin-development\n\u003e \u003e\n\u003e \u003e\n\u003e \u003e\n\u003e \u003e\n\u003e \u003e\n\u003e ------------------------------------------------------------------------------\n\u003e \u003e See everything from the browser to the database with AppDynamics\n\u003e \u003e Get end-to-end visibility with application monitoring from AppDynamics\n\u003e \u003e Isolate bottlenecks and diagnose root cause in seconds.\n\u003e \u003e Start your free trial of AppDynamics Pro today!\n\u003e \u003e\n\u003e http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=48808831\u0026iu=/4140/ostg.clktrk\n\u003e \u003e\n\u003e \u003e\n\u003e \u003e\n\u003e \u003e _______________________________________________\n\u003e \u003e Bitcoin-development mailing list\n\u003e \u003e Bitcoin-development at lists.sourceforge.net\n\u003e \u003e https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bitcoin-development\n\u003e \u003e\n\u003e\n\u003e\n\u003e\n\u003e ------------------------------------------------------------------------------\n\u003e See everything from the browser to the database with AppDynamics\n\u003e Get end-to-end visibility with application monitoring from AppDynamics\n\u003e Isolate bottlenecks and diagnose root cause in seconds.\n\u003e Start your free trial of AppDynamics Pro today!\n\u003e http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=48808831\u0026iu=/4140/ostg.clktrk\n\u003e _______________________________________________\n\u003e Bitcoin-development mailing list\n\u003e Bitcoin-development at lists.sourceforge.net\n\u003e https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bitcoin-development\n\u003e\n-------------- next part --------------\nAn HTML attachment was scrubbed...\nURL: \u003chttp://lists.linuxfoundation.org/pipermail/bitcoin-dev/attachments/20130709/ce8cde0c/attachment.html\u003e",
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