📅 Original date posted:2017-08-22
📝 Original message:This seems to be drifting off into alt-coin discussion. The idea that we
can change the rules and steal coins at a later date because they are
"stale" or someone is "hoarding" is antithetical to one of the points of
bitcoin in that you can no longer control your own money ("be your own
bank") because someone can at a later date take your coins for some reason
that is outside your control and solely based on some rationalization by a
third party. Once the rule is established that there are valid reasons why
someone should not have control of their own bitcoins, what other reasons
will then be determined to be valid?
I can imagine Hal Finney being revived (he was cryo-preserved at Alcor if
you aren't aware) after 100 or 200 years expecting his coins to be there
only to find out that his coins were deemed "stale" so were "reclaimed" (in
the current doublespeak - e.g. stolen or confiscated). Or perhaps he
locked some for his children and they are found to be "stale" before they
are available. He said in March 2013, "I think they're safe enough" stored
in a paper wallet. Perhaps any remaining coins are no longer "safe enough."
Again, this seems (a) more about an alt-coin/bitcoin fork or (b) better in
bitcoin-discuss at best vs bitcoin-dev. I've seen it discussed many times
since 2010 and still do not agree with the rational that embracing allowing
someone to steal someone else's coins for any reason is a useful change to
bitcoin.
On Tue, Aug 22, 2017 at 4:19 AM, Matthew Beton via bitcoin-dev <
bitcoin-dev at lists.linuxfoundation.org> wrote:
> Okay so I quite like this idea. If we start removing at height 630000 or
> 840000 (gives us 4-8 years to develop this solution), it stays nice and
> neat with the halving interval. We can look at this like so:
>
> B - the current block number
> P - how many blocks behind current the coin burning block is. (630000,
> 840000, or otherwise.)
>
> Every time we mine a new block, we go to block (B-P), and check for stale
> coins. These coins get burnt up and pooled into block B's miner fees. This
> keeps the mining rewards up in the long term, people are less likely to
> stop mining due to too low fees. It also encourages people to keep moving
> their money around the enconomy instead of just hording and leaving it.
> _______________________________________________
> bitcoin-dev mailing list
> bitcoin-dev at lists.linuxfoundation.org
> https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/bitcoin-dev
>
>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://lists.linuxfoundation.org/pipermail/bitcoin-dev/attachments/20170822/0237425a/attachment.html>;
Chris Riley [ARCHIVE] /
npub128…45an7
2023-06-07 18:04:54
in reply to nevent1q…wme5
Author Public Key
npub1287e20y3ple0k202xuas3h9h0yfx6ravfxcycd9jauan8cne9pusj45an7Seen on
wss://relay.nostr.bandPublished at
2023-06-07 18:04:54Event JSON
{
"id": "d1ad1fcbe358340183a2b8acfec414b85222c23a725ec2b2afaec74d7b38506d",
"pubkey": "51fd953c910ff2fb29ea373b08dcb779126d0fac49b04c34b2ef3b33e2792879",
"created_at": 1686161094,
"kind": 1,
"tags": [
[
"e",
"0c6b4b39952a477652831cf44f1b98052b758ac89592ff172262f8fe76fd14d7",
"",
"root"
],
[
"e",
"45b88bb7310db843bdd77ea158f5f5e7f0dbb8c0b8b0dfe381984823d55e55a7",
"",
"reply"
],
[
"p",
"15888e8523ddc6ea1097969640fcb6906eb4a087b4257b24b787c8eea03c2807"
]
],
"content": "📅 Original date posted:2017-08-22\n📝 Original message:This seems to be drifting off into alt-coin discussion. The idea that we\ncan change the rules and steal coins at a later date because they are\n\"stale\" or someone is \"hoarding\" is antithetical to one of the points of\nbitcoin in that you can no longer control your own money (\"be your own\nbank\") because someone can at a later date take your coins for some reason\nthat is outside your control and solely based on some rationalization by a\nthird party. Once the rule is established that there are valid reasons why\nsomeone should not have control of their own bitcoins, what other reasons\nwill then be determined to be valid?\n\nI can imagine Hal Finney being revived (he was cryo-preserved at Alcor if\nyou aren't aware) after 100 or 200 years expecting his coins to be there\nonly to find out that his coins were deemed \"stale\" so were \"reclaimed\" (in\nthe current doublespeak - e.g. stolen or confiscated). Or perhaps he\nlocked some for his children and they are found to be \"stale\" before they\nare available. He said in March 2013, \"I think they're safe enough\" stored\nin a paper wallet. Perhaps any remaining coins are no longer \"safe enough.\"\n\nAgain, this seems (a) more about an alt-coin/bitcoin fork or (b) better in\nbitcoin-discuss at best vs bitcoin-dev. I've seen it discussed many times\nsince 2010 and still do not agree with the rational that embracing allowing\nsomeone to steal someone else's coins for any reason is a useful change to\nbitcoin.\n\n\n\n\nOn Tue, Aug 22, 2017 at 4:19 AM, Matthew Beton via bitcoin-dev \u003c\nbitcoin-dev at lists.linuxfoundation.org\u003e wrote:\n\n\u003e Okay so I quite like this idea. If we start removing at height 630000 or\n\u003e 840000 (gives us 4-8 years to develop this solution), it stays nice and\n\u003e neat with the halving interval. We can look at this like so:\n\u003e\n\u003e B - the current block number\n\u003e P - how many blocks behind current the coin burning block is. (630000,\n\u003e 840000, or otherwise.)\n\u003e\n\u003e Every time we mine a new block, we go to block (B-P), and check for stale\n\u003e coins. These coins get burnt up and pooled into block B's miner fees. This\n\u003e keeps the mining rewards up in the long term, people are less likely to\n\u003e stop mining due to too low fees. It also encourages people to keep moving\n\u003e their money around the enconomy instead of just hording and leaving it.\n\u003e _______________________________________________\n\u003e bitcoin-dev mailing list\n\u003e bitcoin-dev at lists.linuxfoundation.org\n\u003e https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/bitcoin-dev\n\u003e\n\u003e\n-------------- next part --------------\nAn HTML attachment was scrubbed...\nURL: \u003chttp://lists.linuxfoundation.org/pipermail/bitcoin-dev/attachments/20170822/0237425a/attachment.html\u003e",
"sig": "2801ffbfc575c45d4b52f1ffb3d6230c36f8cb69abf776af81b470776d6d269d43e2c3808676adfe85c3f1fae4c8653d8e39152dcb3927499896eab760883841"
}