📅 Original date posted:2020-05-05
📝 Original message:Good morning ariard and luke-jr
> > Trust-minimization of Bitcoin security model has always relied first and
> > above on running a full-node. This current paradigm may be shifted by LN
> > where fast, affordable, confidential, censorship-resistant payment services
> > may attract a lot of adoption without users running a full-node.
>
> No, it cannot be shifted. This would compromise Bitcoin itself, which for
> security depends on the assumption that a supermajority of the economy is
> verifying their incoming transactions using their own full node.
>
> The past few years has seen severe regressions in this area, to the point
> where Bitcoin's future seems quite bleak. Without serious improvements to the
> full node ratio, Bitcoin is likely to fail.
>
> Therefore, all efforts to improve the "full node-less" experience are harmful,
> and should be actively avoided. BIP 157 improves privacy of fn-less usage,
> while providing no real benefits to full node users (compared to more
> efficient protocols like Stratum/Electrum).
>
> For this reason, myself and a few others oppose merging support for BIP 157 in
> Core.
BIP 157 can be implemented as a separate daemon that processes the blocks downloaded by an attached `bitcoind`, i.e. what Wasabi does.
The intention, as I understood it, of putting BIP157 directly into bitcoind was to essentially force all `bitcoind` users to possibly service BIP157 clients, in the hope that a BIP157 client can contact any arbitrary fullnode to get BIP157 service.
This is supposed to improve to the situation relative to e.g. Electrum, where there are far fewer Electrum servers than fullnodes.
Of course, as ariard computes, deploying BIP157 could lead to an effective DDoS on the fullnode network if a large number of BIP157 clients arise.
Though maybe this will not occur very fast? We hope?
It seems to me that the thing that *could* be done would be to have watchtowers provide light-client services, since that seems to be the major business model of watchtowers, as suggested by ariard as well.
This is still less than ideal, but maybe is better than nothing.
Regards,
ZmnSCPxj
ZmnSCPxj [ARCHIVE] /
npub1g5…3ms3l
2023-06-07 18:24:19
in reply to nevent1q…rh2m
Author Public Key
npub1g5zswf6y48f7fy90jf3tlcuwdmjn8znhzaa4vkmtxaeskca8hpss23ms3lPublished at
2023-06-07 18:24:19Event JSON
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"content": "📅 Original date posted:2020-05-05\n📝 Original message:Good morning ariard and luke-jr\n\n\n\u003e \u003e Trust-minimization of Bitcoin security model has always relied first and\n\u003e \u003e above on running a full-node. This current paradigm may be shifted by LN\n\u003e \u003e where fast, affordable, confidential, censorship-resistant payment services\n\u003e \u003e may attract a lot of adoption without users running a full-node.\n\u003e\n\u003e No, it cannot be shifted. This would compromise Bitcoin itself, which for\n\u003e security depends on the assumption that a supermajority of the economy is\n\u003e verifying their incoming transactions using their own full node.\n\u003e\n\u003e The past few years has seen severe regressions in this area, to the point\n\u003e where Bitcoin's future seems quite bleak. Without serious improvements to the\n\u003e full node ratio, Bitcoin is likely to fail.\n\u003e\n\u003e Therefore, all efforts to improve the \"full node-less\" experience are harmful,\n\u003e and should be actively avoided. BIP 157 improves privacy of fn-less usage,\n\u003e while providing no real benefits to full node users (compared to more\n\u003e efficient protocols like Stratum/Electrum).\n\u003e\n\u003e For this reason, myself and a few others oppose merging support for BIP 157 in\n\u003e Core.\n\nBIP 157 can be implemented as a separate daemon that processes the blocks downloaded by an attached `bitcoind`, i.e. what Wasabi does.\n\nThe intention, as I understood it, of putting BIP157 directly into bitcoind was to essentially force all `bitcoind` users to possibly service BIP157 clients, in the hope that a BIP157 client can contact any arbitrary fullnode to get BIP157 service.\nThis is supposed to improve to the situation relative to e.g. Electrum, where there are far fewer Electrum servers than fullnodes.\n\nOf course, as ariard computes, deploying BIP157 could lead to an effective DDoS on the fullnode network if a large number of BIP157 clients arise.\nThough maybe this will not occur very fast? We hope?\n\nIt seems to me that the thing that *could* be done would be to have watchtowers provide light-client services, since that seems to be the major business model of watchtowers, as suggested by ariard as well.\nThis is still less than ideal, but maybe is better than nothing.\n\nRegards,\nZmnSCPxj",
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