📅 Original date posted:2022-12-02
📝 Original message:
Hi Loki,
Thanks for raising awareness on this project.
I share the sentiment on the gradual generalization of Lightning onion
messaging as a transport network on its own for Bitcoin-specific traffic
such as offers, offline receive control flow or credentials tokens or even
in the future DLC offers. I don't know about the extension as a
fully-fledged anonymity network such as Tor or I2P, we'll have issues with
DoS too there [0] [1].
On a mechanism to improve the reliability of path-finding, have a look at
the recent fat errors proposal [1] (probably a needed piece for
reputational credentials too).
Best,
Antoine
[0]
https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/pipermail/lightning-dev/2022-June/003623.html
[1]
https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/pipermail/lightning-dev/2022-July/003660.html
[2] https://github.com/lightning/bolts/pull/1044
Le ven. 2 déc. 2022 à 07:33, Loki Verloren via Lightning-dev <
lightning-dev at lists.linuxfoundation.org> a écrit :
> This subject makes a strong argument, along with the onion routed
> messaging part of Bolt 12 for an independent, Lightning funded onion
> routing relay network, over which all such kinds of traffic and security
> can be provided.
>
> I'm working on such a project, which will be initially built to support
> LND/BTCD/Neutrino: https://github.com/Indra-Labs/indra One of its key
> innovations is a mechanism for path tracing, which enables the deduction of
> likely nodes that are currently not functioning correctly or malicious or
> offline or congested, via a process of deduction, while keeping the client
> originating traffic hidden from nodes in the path.
>
> Channels running across this overlay network would not be possible to jam
> and with many nodes a lot of traffic would pass through opaque tunnels,
> which would make jamming harder. The payment scheme in it also might work
> as a full solution to the adding of a cost against attempts to jam
> channels. My current idea for reputation is just a simple measure of client
> success ranking nodes by how recent and reliable they are, creating a loose
> consensus on the network of which nodes are better connected and
> dependable. Because it will use a median/zip merging process for evaluating
> the nodes it is hard for an adversary to damage the reputation of good
> nodes without also having to run a lot of nodes and for those nodes to also
> develop a good reputation.
>
> Anyway, just some thoughts on the subject, not sure how useful or correct
> they are at this point.
>
>
> Sent with Proton Mail <https://proton.me/>; secure email.
> _______________________________________________
> Lightning-dev mailing list
> Lightning-dev at lists.linuxfoundation.org
> https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/lightning-dev
>
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Antoine Riard [ARCHIVE] /
npub1vj…4x8dd
2023-06-09 13:07:33
in reply to nevent1q…0f9k
Author Public Key
npub1vjzmc45k8dgujppapp2ue20h3l9apnsntgv4c0ukncvv549q64gsz4x8ddPublished at
2023-06-09 13:07:33Event JSON
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"content": "📅 Original date posted:2022-12-02\n📝 Original message:\nHi Loki,\n\nThanks for raising awareness on this project.\n\nI share the sentiment on the gradual generalization of Lightning onion\nmessaging as a transport network on its own for Bitcoin-specific traffic\nsuch as offers, offline receive control flow or credentials tokens or even\nin the future DLC offers. I don't know about the extension as a\nfully-fledged anonymity network such as Tor or I2P, we'll have issues with\nDoS too there [0] [1].\n\nOn a mechanism to improve the reliability of path-finding, have a look at\nthe recent fat errors proposal [1] (probably a needed piece for\nreputational credentials too).\n\nBest,\nAntoine\n\n[0]\nhttps://lists.linuxfoundation.org/pipermail/lightning-dev/2022-June/003623.html\n[1]\nhttps://lists.linuxfoundation.org/pipermail/lightning-dev/2022-July/003660.html\n[2] https://github.com/lightning/bolts/pull/1044\n\nLe ven. 2 déc. 2022 à 07:33, Loki Verloren via Lightning-dev \u003c\nlightning-dev at lists.linuxfoundation.org\u003e a écrit :\n\n\u003e This subject makes a strong argument, along with the onion routed\n\u003e messaging part of Bolt 12 for an independent, Lightning funded onion\n\u003e routing relay network, over which all such kinds of traffic and security\n\u003e can be provided.\n\u003e\n\u003e I'm working on such a project, which will be initially built to support\n\u003e LND/BTCD/Neutrino: https://github.com/Indra-Labs/indra One of its key\n\u003e innovations is a mechanism for path tracing, which enables the deduction of\n\u003e likely nodes that are currently not functioning correctly or malicious or\n\u003e offline or congested, via a process of deduction, while keeping the client\n\u003e originating traffic hidden from nodes in the path.\n\u003e\n\u003e Channels running across this overlay network would not be possible to jam\n\u003e and with many nodes a lot of traffic would pass through opaque tunnels,\n\u003e which would make jamming harder. The payment scheme in it also might work\n\u003e as a full solution to the adding of a cost against attempts to jam\n\u003e channels. My current idea for reputation is just a simple measure of client\n\u003e success ranking nodes by how recent and reliable they are, creating a loose\n\u003e consensus on the network of which nodes are better connected and\n\u003e dependable. Because it will use a median/zip merging process for evaluating\n\u003e the nodes it is hard for an adversary to damage the reputation of good\n\u003e nodes without also having to run a lot of nodes and for those nodes to also\n\u003e develop a good reputation.\n\u003e\n\u003e Anyway, just some thoughts on the subject, not sure how useful or correct\n\u003e they are at this point.\n\u003e\n\u003e\n\u003e Sent with Proton Mail \u003chttps://proton.me/\u003e secure email.\n\u003e _______________________________________________\n\u003e Lightning-dev mailing list\n\u003e Lightning-dev at lists.linuxfoundation.org\n\u003e https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/lightning-dev\n\u003e\n-------------- next part --------------\nAn HTML attachment was scrubbed...\nURL: \u003chttp://lists.linuxfoundation.org/pipermail/lightning-dev/attachments/20221202/83fed228/attachment.html\u003e",
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