ð
Original date posted:2016-08-09
ð Original message:If this is just encoding BIP-21 addresses, it is basically an "audio QR
code". In this case, does publishing it as a BIP still make sense? (Not
to imply that it doesn't, but it's something you should consider.)
Please look at existing implementations of audio modems when creating
your design. A lot of this work has been done many times before, so
there is a lot to learn from.
Your selected frequencies are harmonics of each other, meaning nonlinear
distortion will make detection more difficult. The Bell 202 and similar
modem standards chose AFSK frequencies to minimize interference.
Repeating a message multiple times is a very inefficient method of error
recovery. It works, but there may be better techniques, such as trellis
modulation or other convolutional codes.
Defining channel models to simulate your various use cases will help a
lot to determine if you have met your requirements.
- Thomas
P.S. I also briefly considered audio to exchange transactions with a
hardware wallet. Using GNU Radio made the implementation much easier.
On 08/09/2016 04:06 PM, Daniel Hoffman via bitcoin-dev wrote:
> I have updated the GitHub a lot (changed tones to be less chirpy, fixed
> some smalls) and made a couple of samples (see attachment for MP3 and
> FLAC of both tone tables, first 16 then 4). Is this good enough to
> warrant an official BIP number? I haven't built a decoder yet, but it
> seems like the encoder is working properly (looked at Audacity, seems
> like it is working), and some people on reddit want to "allow for
> decoding experiments"
> <https://www.reddit.com/r/btc/comments/4wsn7v/bip_proposal_addresses_over_audio_thoughts/d69m3st>;
>
> What suggestions do you all have for it?
>
> On Mon, Aug 8, 2016 at 8:50 PM, Daniel Hoffman
> <danielhoffman699 at gmail.com <mailto:danielhoffman699 at gmail.com>> wrote:
>
> It wouldn't be feasible in the vast majority of cases, but I can't
> think of a reason why it can't be built into the standard.
>
> On Mon, Aug 8, 2016 at 5:59 PM, Trevin Hofmann via bitcoin-dev
> <bitcoin-dev at lists.linuxfoundation.org
> <mailto:bitcoin-dev at lists.linuxfoundation.org>> wrote:
>
> Would it be feasible to transmit an entire BIP21 URI as audio?
> If you were to encode any extra information (such as amount), it
> would be useful to include a checksum for the entire message.
> This checksum could possibly be used instead of the checksum in
> the address.
>
> Trevin
>
>
> On Aug 8, 2016 3:06 PM, "Justin Newton via bitcoin-dev"
> <bitcoin-dev at lists.linuxfoundation.org
> <mailto:bitcoin-dev at lists.linuxfoundation.org>> wrote:
>
> Daniel,
> Thanks for proposing this. I think this could have some
> useful use cases as you state. I was wondering what you
> would think to adding some additional tones to optionally
> denote an amount (in satoshis?).
>
> (FYI, actual link is here: https://github.com/Dako300/BIP
> <https://github.com/Dako300/BIP>; )
>
> Justin
>
> On Mon, Aug 8, 2016 at 2:22 PM, Daniel Hoffman via
> bitcoin-dev <bitcoin-dev at lists.linuxfoundation.org
> <mailto:bitcoin-dev at lists.linuxfoundation.org>> wrote:
>
> This is my BIP idea: a fast, robust, and standardized
> for representing Bitcoin addresses over audio. It takes
> the binary representation of the Bitcoin address (little
> endian), chops that up into 4 or 2 bit chunks (depending
> on type, 2 bit only for low quality audio like american
> telephone lines), and generates a tone based upon that
> value. This started because I wanted an easy way to
> donate to podcasts that I listen to, and having a
> Shazam-esque app (or a media player with this
> capability) that gives me an address automatically would
> be wonderful for both the consumer and producer. Comes
> with error correction built into the protocol
>
> You can see the full specification of the BIP on my
> GitHub page (https://github.com/Dako300/BIP-0153
> <https://github.com/Dako300/BIP-0153>;).
>
> _______________________________________________
> bitcoin-dev mailing list
> bitcoin-dev at lists.linuxfoundation.org
> <mailto:bitcoin-dev at lists.linuxfoundation.org>
> https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/bitcoin-dev
> <https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/bitcoin-dev>;
>
>
>
>
> --
>
> Justin W. Newton
> Founder/CEO
> Netki, Inc.
>
> justin at netki.com <mailto:justin at netki.com>
> +1.818.261.4248 <tel:+1.818.261.4248>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> bitcoin-dev mailing list
> bitcoin-dev at lists.linuxfoundation.org
> <mailto:bitcoin-dev at lists.linuxfoundation.org>
> https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/bitcoin-dev
> <https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/bitcoin-dev>;
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> bitcoin-dev mailing list
> bitcoin-dev at lists.linuxfoundation.org
> <mailto:bitcoin-dev at lists.linuxfoundation.org>
> https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/bitcoin-dev
> <https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/bitcoin-dev>;
>
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> bitcoin-dev mailing list
> bitcoin-dev at lists.linuxfoundation.org
> https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/bitcoin-dev
>
Thomas Daede [ARCHIVE] /
npub1vjâŠ3qpuy
2023-06-07 17:52:34
in reply to nevent1qâŠxh9w
Author Public Key
npub1vjlv5yhutdz826l4nqyrc9v72wjzp0d3j48y7d429fkh9xquew4sx3qpuySeen on
wss://relay.nostr.bandPublished at
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"content": "ð
Original date posted:2016-08-09\nð Original message:If this is just encoding BIP-21 addresses, it is basically an \"audio QR\ncode\". In this case, does publishing it as a BIP still make sense? (Not\nto imply that it doesn't, but it's something you should consider.)\n\nPlease look at existing implementations of audio modems when creating\nyour design. A lot of this work has been done many times before, so\nthere is a lot to learn from.\n\nYour selected frequencies are harmonics of each other, meaning nonlinear\ndistortion will make detection more difficult. The Bell 202 and similar\nmodem standards chose AFSK frequencies to minimize interference.\n\nRepeating a message multiple times is a very inefficient method of error\nrecovery. It works, but there may be better techniques, such as trellis\nmodulation or other convolutional codes.\n\nDefining channel models to simulate your various use cases will help a\nlot to determine if you have met your requirements.\n\n- Thomas\n\nP.S. I also briefly considered audio to exchange transactions with a\nhardware wallet. Using GNU Radio made the implementation much easier.\n\nOn 08/09/2016 04:06 PM, Daniel Hoffman via bitcoin-dev wrote:\n\u003e I have updated the GitHub a lot (changed tones to be less chirpy, fixed\n\u003e some smalls) and made a couple of samples (see attachment for MP3 and\n\u003e FLAC of both tone tables, first 16 then 4). Is this good enough to\n\u003e warrant an official BIP number? I haven't built a decoder yet, but it\n\u003e seems like the encoder is working properly (looked at Audacity, seems\n\u003e like it is working), and some people on reddit want to \"allow for\n\u003e decoding experiments\"\n\u003e \u003chttps://www.reddit.com/r/btc/comments/4wsn7v/bip_proposal_addresses_over_audio_thoughts/d69m3st\u003e\n\u003e \n\u003e What suggestions do you all have for it?\n\u003e \n\u003e On Mon, Aug 8, 2016 at 8:50 PM, Daniel Hoffman\n\u003e \u003cdanielhoffman699 at gmail.com \u003cmailto:danielhoffman699 at gmail.com\u003e\u003e wrote:\n\u003e \n\u003e It wouldn't be feasible in the vast majority of cases, but I can't\n\u003e think of a reason why it can't be built into the standard.\n\u003e \n\u003e On Mon, Aug 8, 2016 at 5:59 PM, Trevin Hofmann via bitcoin-dev\n\u003e \u003cbitcoin-dev at lists.linuxfoundation.org\n\u003e \u003cmailto:bitcoin-dev at lists.linuxfoundation.org\u003e\u003e wrote:\n\u003e \n\u003e Would it be feasible to transmit an entire BIP21 URI as audio?\n\u003e If you were to encode any extra information (such as amount), it\n\u003e would be useful to include a checksum for the entire message.\n\u003e This checksum could possibly be used instead of the checksum in\n\u003e the address.\n\u003e \n\u003e Trevin\n\u003e \n\u003e \n\u003e On Aug 8, 2016 3:06 PM, \"Justin Newton via bitcoin-dev\"\n\u003e \u003cbitcoin-dev at lists.linuxfoundation.org\n\u003e \u003cmailto:bitcoin-dev at lists.linuxfoundation.org\u003e\u003e wrote:\n\u003e \n\u003e Daniel,\n\u003e Thanks for proposing this. I think this could have some\n\u003e useful use cases as you state. I was wondering what you\n\u003e would think to adding some additional tones to optionally\n\u003e denote an amount (in satoshis?).\n\u003e \n\u003e (FYI, actual link is here: https://github.com/Dako300/BIP\n\u003e \u003chttps://github.com/Dako300/BIP\u003e )\n\u003e \n\u003e Justin\n\u003e \n\u003e On Mon, Aug 8, 2016 at 2:22 PM, Daniel Hoffman via\n\u003e bitcoin-dev \u003cbitcoin-dev at lists.linuxfoundation.org\n\u003e \u003cmailto:bitcoin-dev at lists.linuxfoundation.org\u003e\u003e wrote:\n\u003e \n\u003e This is my BIP idea: a fast, robust, and standardized\n\u003e for representing Bitcoin addresses over audio. It takes\n\u003e the binary representation of the Bitcoin address (little\n\u003e endian), chops that up into 4 or 2 bit chunks (depending\n\u003e on type, 2 bit only for low quality audio like american\n\u003e telephone lines), and generates a tone based upon that\n\u003e value. This started because I wanted an easy way to\n\u003e donate to podcasts that I listen to, and having a\n\u003e Shazam-esque app (or a media player with this\n\u003e capability) that gives me an address automatically would\n\u003e be wonderful for both the consumer and producer. Comes\n\u003e with error correction built into the protocol\n\u003e \n\u003e You can see the full specification of the BIP on my\n\u003e GitHub page (https://github.com/Dako300/BIP-0153\n\u003e \u003chttps://github.com/Dako300/BIP-0153\u003e).\n\u003e \n\u003e _______________________________________________\n\u003e bitcoin-dev mailing list\n\u003e bitcoin-dev at lists.linuxfoundation.org\n\u003e \u003cmailto:bitcoin-dev at lists.linuxfoundation.org\u003e\n\u003e https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/bitcoin-dev\n\u003e \u003chttps://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/bitcoin-dev\u003e\n\u003e \n\u003e \n\u003e \n\u003e \n\u003e -- \n\u003e \n\u003e Justin W. Newton\n\u003e Founder/CEO\n\u003e Netki, Inc.\n\u003e \n\u003e justin at netki.com \u003cmailto:justin at netki.com\u003e\n\u003e +1.818.261.4248 \u003ctel:+1.818.261.4248\u003e\n\u003e \n\u003e \n\u003e \n\u003e _______________________________________________\n\u003e bitcoin-dev mailing list\n\u003e bitcoin-dev at lists.linuxfoundation.org\n\u003e \u003cmailto:bitcoin-dev at lists.linuxfoundation.org\u003e\n\u003e https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/bitcoin-dev\n\u003e \u003chttps://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/bitcoin-dev\u003e\n\u003e \n\u003e \n\u003e _______________________________________________\n\u003e bitcoin-dev mailing list\n\u003e bitcoin-dev at lists.linuxfoundation.org\n\u003e \u003cmailto:bitcoin-dev at lists.linuxfoundation.org\u003e\n\u003e https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/bitcoin-dev\n\u003e \u003chttps://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/bitcoin-dev\u003e\n\u003e \n\u003e \n\u003e \n\u003e \n\u003e \n\u003e _______________________________________________\n\u003e bitcoin-dev mailing list\n\u003e bitcoin-dev at lists.linuxfoundation.org\n\u003e https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/bitcoin-dev\n\u003e",
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