📅 Original date posted:2022-05-03
📝 Original message:It looks like you are talking about lending where the principal return is guaranteed by covenant at maturity. This make the net present value of the loan zero.
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> On May 3, 2022, at 11:03, Chris Belcher via bitcoin-dev <bitcoin-dev at lists.linuxfoundation.org> wrote:
>
> Hello ZmnSCPxj,
>
> Such a system will have to be publicly advertised, in the same way we see centralized cryptocurrency staking shops buying ads all over the place. That's how they'll make retail hodlers aware that renting out your coins in this way is possible. If JoinMarket/Teleport users notice such ads appearing then we could change the taker code to remove the intermediate certificate keypair, and have the fidelity bond UTXO key sign the endpoint (IRC nickname or onion hostname) directly. This removes the possibility of fidelity bonds in cold storage. It would have to be done for privacy, and it wouldn't be too bad. Right now there's no cold storage solution for fidelity bonds yet JoinMarket has about 600 bitcoins locked up and advertised, which must be all on hot wallets.
>
> Best,
> CB
>
>> On 03/05/2022 06:26, ZmnSCPxj wrote:
>> Good morning Chris,
>>> Hello ZmnSCPxj,
>>>
>>> Renting out fidelity bonds is an interesting idea. It might happen in
>>> the situation where a hodler wants to generate yield but doesn't want
>>> the hassle of running a full node and yield generator. A big downside of
>>> it is that the yield generator income is random while the rent paid is a
>>> fixed cost, so there's a chance that the income won't cover the rent.
>> The fact that *renting* is at all possible suggests to me that the following situation *could* arise:
>> * A market of lessors arises.
>> * A surveillor creates multiple identities.
>> * Each fake identity rents separately from multiple lessors.
>> * Surveillor gets privacy data by paying out rent money to the lessor market.
>> In defiads, I and Tamas pretty much concluded that rental would happen inevitably.
>> One could say that defiads was a kind of fidelity bond system.
>> Our solution for defiads was to prioritize propagating advertisements (roughly equivalent to the certificates in your system, I think) with larger bonded values * min(bonded_time, 1 year).
>> However, do note that we did not intend defiads to be used for privacy-sensitive applications like JoinMarket/Teleport.
>> Regards,
>> ZmnSCPxj
> _______________________________________________
> bitcoin-dev mailing list
> bitcoin-dev at lists.linuxfoundation.org
> https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/bitcoin-dev
Eric Voskuil [ARCHIVE] /
npub1sg…ppx3c
2023-06-07 23:08:46
in reply to nevent1q…wx9p
Author Public Key
npub1sgs97fe0n9wehe6zw7drcxdz4cy9yt9pfqjv8gasz5jlk4zezc0quppx3cPublished at
2023-06-07 23:08:46Event JSON
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"content": "📅 Original date posted:2022-05-03\n📝 Original message:It looks like you are talking about lending where the principal return is guaranteed by covenant at maturity. This make the net present value of the loan zero.\n\ne\n\n\u003e On May 3, 2022, at 11:03, Chris Belcher via bitcoin-dev \u003cbitcoin-dev at lists.linuxfoundation.org\u003e wrote:\n\u003e \n\u003e Hello ZmnSCPxj,\n\u003e \n\u003e Such a system will have to be publicly advertised, in the same way we see centralized cryptocurrency staking shops buying ads all over the place. That's how they'll make retail hodlers aware that renting out your coins in this way is possible. If JoinMarket/Teleport users notice such ads appearing then we could change the taker code to remove the intermediate certificate keypair, and have the fidelity bond UTXO key sign the endpoint (IRC nickname or onion hostname) directly. This removes the possibility of fidelity bonds in cold storage. It would have to be done for privacy, and it wouldn't be too bad. Right now there's no cold storage solution for fidelity bonds yet JoinMarket has about 600 bitcoins locked up and advertised, which must be all on hot wallets.\n\u003e \n\u003e Best,\n\u003e CB\n\u003e \n\u003e\u003e On 03/05/2022 06:26, ZmnSCPxj wrote:\n\u003e\u003e Good morning Chris,\n\u003e\u003e\u003e Hello ZmnSCPxj,\n\u003e\u003e\u003e \n\u003e\u003e\u003e Renting out fidelity bonds is an interesting idea. It might happen in\n\u003e\u003e\u003e the situation where a hodler wants to generate yield but doesn't want\n\u003e\u003e\u003e the hassle of running a full node and yield generator. A big downside of\n\u003e\u003e\u003e it is that the yield generator income is random while the rent paid is a\n\u003e\u003e\u003e fixed cost, so there's a chance that the income won't cover the rent.\n\u003e\u003e The fact that *renting* is at all possible suggests to me that the following situation *could* arise:\n\u003e\u003e * A market of lessors arises.\n\u003e\u003e * A surveillor creates multiple identities.\n\u003e\u003e * Each fake identity rents separately from multiple lessors.\n\u003e\u003e * Surveillor gets privacy data by paying out rent money to the lessor market.\n\u003e\u003e In defiads, I and Tamas pretty much concluded that rental would happen inevitably.\n\u003e\u003e One could say that defiads was a kind of fidelity bond system.\n\u003e\u003e Our solution for defiads was to prioritize propagating advertisements (roughly equivalent to the certificates in your system, I think) with larger bonded values * min(bonded_time, 1 year).\n\u003e\u003e However, do note that we did not intend defiads to be used for privacy-sensitive applications like JoinMarket/Teleport.\n\u003e\u003e Regards,\n\u003e\u003e ZmnSCPxj\n\u003e _______________________________________________\n\u003e bitcoin-dev mailing list\n\u003e bitcoin-dev at lists.linuxfoundation.org\n\u003e https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/bitcoin-dev",
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