📅 Original date posted:2017-12-13
📝 Original message:
> If you have a reason to open a channel to an arbitrary node, then other nodes have a reason to open a channel to an arbitrary node, which might be you. Even if the network grows large, that > also means there are more participants who might decide, via whatever heuristic, to channel to your node.
If I am connected to some nodes, but no one connected to me, then all
of my deposit is used by me only, and is not used by other nodes.
If I am routing nodes through my node, then it can potentially
negatively affect availability of my deposit for my own transactions.
So it seems to me that the best strategy is to connect but accept no
incoming connections.
How much real is this problem?
On Wed, Dec 13, 2017 at 10:58 AM,
<lightning-dev-request at lists.linuxfoundation.org> wrote:
> Send Lightning-dev mailing list submissions to
> lightning-dev at lists.linuxfoundation.org
>
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> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
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>
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> than "Re: Contents of Lightning-dev digest..."
>
>
> Today's Topics:
>
> 1. Peer selection (Stan Kladko)
> 2. Re: Peer selection (ZmnSCPxj)
> 3. Re: LN public marketplaces (exchanges) (ZmnSCPxj)
> 4. Re: Peer selection (Stan Kladko)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Tue, 12 Dec 2017 17:32:12 +0200
> From: Stan Kladko <stan.kladko at galacticexchange.io>
> To: lightning-dev at lists.linuxfoundation.org
> Subject: [Lightning-dev] Peer selection
> Message-ID:
> <CA+Zg=czbP+UBSsigXF1Gzq+HZGPKAuy8wFpFnX4swY6fR3KqEQ at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
>
> I have been reading LN specs, one question that I am trying to answer
> is how do I find a peer
> for my lightning connections.
>
> Lets say I want to connect to the network with 6 links, each having $100.
>
> 1. How do I select the nodes to peer with?
>
> 2. How do I make them to do deposits - ideally I want them to match $100 each.
> But since they are presumably already sufficiently connected to
> the network, why would they lock more funds?
>
> 3. How do I find out if someone wants to connect to me?
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Tue, 12 Dec 2017 19:36:24 -0500
> From: ZmnSCPxj <ZmnSCPxj at protonmail.com>
> To: Stan Kladko <stan.kladko at galacticexchange.io>
> Cc: "lightning-dev at lists.linuxfoundation.org"
> <lightning-dev at lists.linuxfoundation.org>
> Subject: Re: [Lightning-dev] Peer selection
> Message-ID:
> <QUTEyN8gbg0ndyb38Q5-WkyCrooI8ptcnQTVeeoFAK3OGp3NVPfaLkzd8G1iUpeSLy1txlbMW6MORSZaF02CeJ8C8rgt5Ej1AMxqomN_BxM=@protonmail.com>
>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
> Good morning Stan,
>
>>1. How do I select the nodes to peer with?
>
> By whatever selection criteria you wish.
>
> In practice, lnd offers an "auto-pilot" where it selects peers to channel with automatically using some heuristic (which I do not know). My understanding, c-lightning will eventually offer a similar feature at some point in the future.
>
> Presumably node gossip will let you learn of other nodes that you might channel with in the future.
>
>>2. How do I make them to do deposits - ideally I want them to match $100 each.
>
> Currently, channels are initially single-funded. There is a proposal https://github.com/lightningnetwork/lightning-rfc/pull/184 for dual-funded channel setup, but did not make it into 1.0.
>
>>But since they are presumably already sufficiently connected to
>>the network, why would they lock more funds?
>
> It helps to consider that you are not particularly special, and neither are the existing nodes on the network particularly special.
>
> If you have a reason to open a channel to an arbitrary node, then other nodes have a reason to open a channel to an arbitrary node, which might be you. Even if the network grows large, that also means there are more participants who might decide, via whatever heuristic, to channel to your node.
>
> If you intend to connect for the purpose of becoming a hub and earning routing fees, if you have some onchain bitcoins you can afford to invest, then it is to your interest to channel with relatively new and low-connectivity nodes. Such nodes might receive payments and if you are one of the few routes (or the only route) you then get a higher chance of being routed through. Inverting this, if you have a new node with a few channels, others aspiring to become hubs will want to lock spare funds to channel to your node in case you become a very prolific user (sender or receiver) of the network in the future.
>
>>3. How do I find out if someone wants to connect to me?
>
> The node connects to yours and sends channel funding messages.
>
> Regards,
> ZmnSCPxj
> -------------- next part --------------
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> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 3
> Date: Tue, 12 Dec 2017 20:19:00 -0500
> From: ZmnSCPxj <ZmnSCPxj at protonmail.com>
> To: "U.Mutlu" <um4711 at mutluit.com>
> Cc: "lightning-dev at lists.linuxfoundation.org"
> <lightning-dev at lists.linuxfoundation.org>
> Subject: Re: [Lightning-dev] LN public marketplaces (exchanges)
> Message-ID:
> <l2X2PcULcdRd86iLthJttYfey1v8Vp3gZ9QQEkN4rSZ6wKx1LjLhejYF0LcnI6m1aOkplYVYRGYbNqqxKfMK0l_juZdkYNuAuyy6ctoQxXw=@protonmail.com>
>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
> Good Morning,
>
> My understanding of your idea is the below:
>
> 1. I set up as a middleman from the base blockchain to the LN.
> 2. You send me an onchain transaction plus a fee and after 0 confirmations (!! risk) I send to the recipient on LN.
>
> But please consider that you could run an LN node yourself, open a channel (and spend any fees you might have paid to me in the channel opening) and then sent to the recipient on LN yourself. Further, you can afterwards make future payments to LN for low fees yourself, without having to make a new onchain transaction each time. So I see no benefit to you using this service.
>
> Regards,
> ZmnSCPxj
>
> -------- Original Message --------
> Subject: Re: [Lightning-dev] LN public marketplaces (exchanges)
> Local Time: December 12, 2017 7:08 AM
> UTC Time: December 11, 2017 11:08 PM
> From: um4711 at mutluit.com
> To: lightning-dev at lists.linuxfoundation.org
>
> Christian Decker wrote on 12/11/2017 11:59 AM:
> Not sure I fully understand the use-case you are referring to. Is this
> supposed to be a short-term loan to get a bill paid or is this supposed
> to facilitate muli-hop payments? In the former case there is no support
> for it yet, since all of the payments in LN are always fully backed by
> Bitcoin. In the latter case, I don't see how that differs from the
> multi-hop payments we already do.
>
> I must admit I'm new to LN and don't know yet if it can be used
> in setting up such a scenario:
>
> A bitcoin transaction usually takes at least 10 minutes for confirmation.
> An instant payment could be realised if a middleman pays out the amount
> to the receiver immediately, and gets his money back from the original
> sender the normal way (ie. waiting the 10+ minutes).
>
> The middlemen (ie. other users) would announce their such service at
> a marketplace (the highest amount he/she is willing to overtake plus
> the fees he/she wants). With each transaction, Bitcoin would pick
> the best offer from the orderbook of the maketplace and process the
> transaction that way (ie. swapping the receiver by the middleman).
>
> The advantages: the receiver gets the money instantly,
> and any user can play middleman (hence an exchange for it),
> the middlemen earn from the fees, exchanges get established, ...
>
> Just an idea...
>
> Lightning-dev mailing list
> Lightning-dev at lists.linuxfoundation.org
> https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/lightning-dev
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>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 4
> Date: Wed, 13 Dec 2017 10:58:21 +0200
> From: Stan Kladko <stan.kladko at galacticexchange.io>
> To: ZmnSCPxj <ZmnSCPxj at protonmail.com>
> Cc: "lightning-dev at lists.linuxfoundation.org"
> <lightning-dev at lists.linuxfoundation.org>
> Subject: Re: [Lightning-dev] Peer selection
> Message-ID:
> <CA+Zg=cwRD-YKtXYjg+0K6Q75E77gS5quON456wGbnTb7R-5-ag at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
>
> I see - thank you.
>
> How to I discover nodes - is there any UI to see nodes currently
> running on the network ?
>
>> 3. How do I find out if someone wants to connect to me?
>> The node connects to yours and sends channel funding messages.
>
> In this case there is some kind of an UI where I can accept or reject - correct?
> Or I auto-accept everyone that connects to me?
>
>> If you intend to connect for the purpose of becoming a hub and earning routing fees, if you have some onchain bitcoins you can afford to invest, then it is to your interest to channel with relatively new and low-connectivity nodes.
>
> If I become a hub, how much to I earn, approximately in routing fees?
> Is it a percentage of transactions? Are routing fees the same for all
> hubs?
>
> If I am connecting to the network and see many hubs - how can I select
> which hub to connect to? Is there any performance/reputation info
> available for any hub?
>
>
>
>
> On Wed, Dec 13, 2017 at 2:36 AM, ZmnSCPxj <ZmnSCPxj at protonmail.com> wrote:
>> Good morning Stan,
>>
>>>1. How do I select the nodes to peer with?
>>
>> By whatever selection criteria you wish.
>>
>> In practice, lnd offers an "auto-pilot" where it selects peers to channel
>> with automatically using some heuristic (which I do not know). My
>> understanding, c-lightning will eventually offer a similar feature at some
>> point in the future.
>>
>> Presumably node gossip will let you learn of other nodes that you might
>> channel with in the future.
>>
>>>2. How do I make them to do deposits - ideally I want them to match $100
>>> each.
>>
>> Currently, channels are initially single-funded. There is a proposal
>> https://github.com/lightningnetwork/lightning-rfc/pull/184 for dual-funded
>> channel setup, but did not make it into 1.0.
>>
>>>But since they are presumably already sufficiently connected to
>>>the network, why would they lock more funds?
>>
>> It helps to consider that you are not particularly special, and neither are
>> the existing nodes on the network particularly special.
>>
>> If you have a reason to open a channel to an arbitrary node, then other
>> nodes have a reason to open a channel to an arbitrary node, which might be
>> you. Even if the network grows large, that also means there are more
>> participants who might decide, via whatever heuristic, to channel to your
>> node.
>>
>> If you intend to connect for the purpose of becoming a hub and earning
>> routing fees, if you have some onchain bitcoins you can afford to invest,
>> then it is to your interest to channel with relatively new and
>> low-connectivity nodes. Such nodes might receive payments and if you are one
>> of the few routes (or the only route) you then get a higher chance of being
>> routed through. Inverting this, if you have a new node with a few channels,
>> others aspiring to become hubs will want to lock spare funds to channel to
>> your node in case you become a very prolific user (sender or receiver) of
>> the network in the future.
>>
>>>3. How do I find out if someone wants to connect to me?
>>
>> The node connects to yours and sends channel funding messages.
>>
>> Regards,
>> ZmnSCPxj
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
> Lightning-dev mailing list
> Lightning-dev at lists.linuxfoundation.org
> https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/lightning-dev
>
>
> End of Lightning-dev Digest, Vol 28, Issue 9
> ********************************************
Stan Kladko [ARCHIVE] /
npub1hd…v3wes
2023-06-09 12:48:02
in reply to nevent1q…euzp
Author Public Key
npub1hd494269aenxtnartkwdlwcsa2xvuhtfaufh9kpetuz4m4n86q3qkv3wesPublished at
2023-06-09 12:48:02Event JSON
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"content": "📅 Original date posted:2017-12-13\n📝 Original message:\n\u003e If you have a reason to open a channel to an arbitrary node, then other nodes have a reason to open a channel to an arbitrary node, which might be you. Even if the network grows large, that \u003e also means there are more participants who might decide, via whatever heuristic, to channel to your node.\n\nIf I am connected to some nodes, but no one connected to me, then all\nof my deposit is used by me only, and is not used by other nodes.\nIf I am routing nodes through my node, then it can potentially\nnegatively affect availability of my deposit for my own transactions.\nSo it seems to me that the best strategy is to connect but accept no\nincoming connections.\n\nHow much real is this problem?\n\n\n\nOn Wed, Dec 13, 2017 at 10:58 AM,\n\u003clightning-dev-request at lists.linuxfoundation.org\u003e wrote:\n\u003e Send Lightning-dev mailing list submissions to\n\u003e lightning-dev at lists.linuxfoundation.org\n\u003e\n\u003e To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit\n\u003e https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/lightning-dev\n\u003e or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to\n\u003e lightning-dev-request at lists.linuxfoundation.org\n\u003e\n\u003e You can reach the person managing the list at\n\u003e lightning-dev-owner at lists.linuxfoundation.org\n\u003e\n\u003e When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific\n\u003e than \"Re: Contents of Lightning-dev digest...\"\n\u003e\n\u003e\n\u003e Today's Topics:\n\u003e\n\u003e 1. Peer selection (Stan Kladko)\n\u003e 2. Re: Peer selection (ZmnSCPxj)\n\u003e 3. Re: LN public marketplaces (exchanges) (ZmnSCPxj)\n\u003e 4. Re: Peer selection (Stan Kladko)\n\u003e\n\u003e\n\u003e ----------------------------------------------------------------------\n\u003e\n\u003e Message: 1\n\u003e Date: Tue, 12 Dec 2017 17:32:12 +0200\n\u003e From: Stan Kladko \u003cstan.kladko at galacticexchange.io\u003e\n\u003e To: lightning-dev at lists.linuxfoundation.org\n\u003e Subject: [Lightning-dev] Peer selection\n\u003e Message-ID:\n\u003e \u003cCA+Zg=czbP+UBSsigXF1Gzq+HZGPKAuy8wFpFnX4swY6fR3KqEQ at mail.gmail.com\u003e\n\u003e Content-Type: text/plain; charset=\"UTF-8\"\n\u003e\n\u003e I have been reading LN specs, one question that I am trying to answer\n\u003e is how do I find a peer\n\u003e for my lightning connections.\n\u003e\n\u003e Lets say I want to connect to the network with 6 links, each having $100.\n\u003e\n\u003e 1. How do I select the nodes to peer with?\n\u003e\n\u003e 2. How do I make them to do deposits - ideally I want them to match $100 each.\n\u003e But since they are presumably already sufficiently connected to\n\u003e the network, why would they lock more funds?\n\u003e\n\u003e 3. How do I find out if someone wants to connect to me?\n\u003e\n\u003e\n\u003e ------------------------------\n\u003e\n\u003e Message: 2\n\u003e Date: Tue, 12 Dec 2017 19:36:24 -0500\n\u003e From: ZmnSCPxj \u003cZmnSCPxj at protonmail.com\u003e\n\u003e To: Stan Kladko \u003cstan.kladko at galacticexchange.io\u003e\n\u003e Cc: \"lightning-dev at lists.linuxfoundation.org\"\n\u003e \u003clightning-dev at lists.linuxfoundation.org\u003e\n\u003e Subject: Re: [Lightning-dev] Peer selection\n\u003e Message-ID:\n\u003e \u003cQUTEyN8gbg0ndyb38Q5-WkyCrooI8ptcnQTVeeoFAK3OGp3NVPfaLkzd8G1iUpeSLy1txlbMW6MORSZaF02CeJ8C8rgt5Ej1AMxqomN_BxM=@protonmail.com\u003e\n\u003e\n\u003e Content-Type: text/plain; charset=\"utf-8\"\n\u003e\n\u003e Good morning Stan,\n\u003e\n\u003e\u003e1. How do I select the nodes to peer with?\n\u003e\n\u003e By whatever selection criteria you wish.\n\u003e\n\u003e In practice, lnd offers an \"auto-pilot\" where it selects peers to channel with automatically using some heuristic (which I do not know). My understanding, c-lightning will eventually offer a similar feature at some point in the future.\n\u003e\n\u003e Presumably node gossip will let you learn of other nodes that you might channel with in the future.\n\u003e\n\u003e\u003e2. How do I make them to do deposits - ideally I want them to match $100 each.\n\u003e\n\u003e Currently, channels are initially single-funded. There is a proposal https://github.com/lightningnetwork/lightning-rfc/pull/184 for dual-funded channel setup, but did not make it into 1.0.\n\u003e\n\u003e\u003eBut since they are presumably already sufficiently connected to\n\u003e\u003ethe network, why would they lock more funds?\n\u003e\n\u003e It helps to consider that you are not particularly special, and neither are the existing nodes on the network particularly special.\n\u003e\n\u003e If you have a reason to open a channel to an arbitrary node, then other nodes have a reason to open a channel to an arbitrary node, which might be you. Even if the network grows large, that also means there are more participants who might decide, via whatever heuristic, to channel to your node.\n\u003e\n\u003e If you intend to connect for the purpose of becoming a hub and earning routing fees, if you have some onchain bitcoins you can afford to invest, then it is to your interest to channel with relatively new and low-connectivity nodes. Such nodes might receive payments and if you are one of the few routes (or the only route) you then get a higher chance of being routed through. Inverting this, if you have a new node with a few channels, others aspiring to become hubs will want to lock spare funds to channel to your node in case you become a very prolific user (sender or receiver) of the network in the future.\n\u003e\n\u003e\u003e3. How do I find out if someone wants to connect to me?\n\u003e\n\u003e The node connects to yours and sends channel funding messages.\n\u003e\n\u003e Regards,\n\u003e ZmnSCPxj\n\u003e -------------- next part --------------\n\u003e An HTML attachment was scrubbed...\n\u003e URL: \u003chttp://lists.linuxfoundation.org/pipermail/lightning-dev/attachments/20171212/c8e87abc/attachment-0001.html\u003e\n\u003e\n\u003e ------------------------------\n\u003e\n\u003e Message: 3\n\u003e Date: Tue, 12 Dec 2017 20:19:00 -0500\n\u003e From: ZmnSCPxj \u003cZmnSCPxj at protonmail.com\u003e\n\u003e To: \"U.Mutlu\" \u003cum4711 at mutluit.com\u003e\n\u003e Cc: \"lightning-dev at lists.linuxfoundation.org\"\n\u003e \u003clightning-dev at lists.linuxfoundation.org\u003e\n\u003e Subject: Re: [Lightning-dev] LN public marketplaces (exchanges)\n\u003e Message-ID:\n\u003e \u003cl2X2PcULcdRd86iLthJttYfey1v8Vp3gZ9QQEkN4rSZ6wKx1LjLhejYF0LcnI6m1aOkplYVYRGYbNqqxKfMK0l_juZdkYNuAuyy6ctoQxXw=@protonmail.com\u003e\n\u003e\n\u003e Content-Type: text/plain; charset=\"utf-8\"\n\u003e\n\u003e Good Morning,\n\u003e\n\u003e My understanding of your idea is the below:\n\u003e\n\u003e 1. I set up as a middleman from the base blockchain to the LN.\n\u003e 2. You send me an onchain transaction plus a fee and after 0 confirmations (!! risk) I send to the recipient on LN.\n\u003e\n\u003e But please consider that you could run an LN node yourself, open a channel (and spend any fees you might have paid to me in the channel opening) and then sent to the recipient on LN yourself. Further, you can afterwards make future payments to LN for low fees yourself, without having to make a new onchain transaction each time. So I see no benefit to you using this service.\n\u003e\n\u003e Regards,\n\u003e ZmnSCPxj\n\u003e\n\u003e -------- Original Message --------\n\u003e Subject: Re: [Lightning-dev] LN public marketplaces (exchanges)\n\u003e Local Time: December 12, 2017 7:08 AM\n\u003e UTC Time: December 11, 2017 11:08 PM\n\u003e From: um4711 at mutluit.com\n\u003e To: lightning-dev at lists.linuxfoundation.org\n\u003e\n\u003e Christian Decker wrote on 12/11/2017 11:59 AM:\n\u003e Not sure I fully understand the use-case you are referring to. Is this\n\u003e supposed to be a short-term loan to get a bill paid or is this supposed\n\u003e to facilitate muli-hop payments? In the former case there is no support\n\u003e for it yet, since all of the payments in LN are always fully backed by\n\u003e Bitcoin. In the latter case, I don't see how that differs from the\n\u003e multi-hop payments we already do.\n\u003e\n\u003e I must admit I'm new to LN and don't know yet if it can be used\n\u003e in setting up such a scenario:\n\u003e\n\u003e A bitcoin transaction usually takes at least 10 minutes for confirmation.\n\u003e An instant payment could be realised if a middleman pays out the amount\n\u003e to the receiver immediately, and gets his money back from the original\n\u003e sender the normal way (ie. waiting the 10+ minutes).\n\u003e\n\u003e The middlemen (ie. other users) would announce their such service at\n\u003e a marketplace (the highest amount he/she is willing to overtake plus\n\u003e the fees he/she wants). With each transaction, Bitcoin would pick\n\u003e the best offer from the orderbook of the maketplace and process the\n\u003e transaction that way (ie. swapping the receiver by the middleman).\n\u003e\n\u003e The advantages: the receiver gets the money instantly,\n\u003e and any user can play middleman (hence an exchange for it),\n\u003e the middlemen earn from the fees, exchanges get established, ...\n\u003e\n\u003e Just an idea...\n\u003e\n\u003e Lightning-dev mailing list\n\u003e Lightning-dev at lists.linuxfoundation.org\n\u003e https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/lightning-dev\n\u003e -------------- next part --------------\n\u003e An HTML attachment was scrubbed...\n\u003e URL: \u003chttp://lists.linuxfoundation.org/pipermail/lightning-dev/attachments/20171212/ea69fedd/attachment-0001.html\u003e\n\u003e\n\u003e ------------------------------\n\u003e\n\u003e Message: 4\n\u003e Date: Wed, 13 Dec 2017 10:58:21 +0200\n\u003e From: Stan Kladko \u003cstan.kladko at galacticexchange.io\u003e\n\u003e To: ZmnSCPxj \u003cZmnSCPxj at protonmail.com\u003e\n\u003e Cc: \"lightning-dev at lists.linuxfoundation.org\"\n\u003e \u003clightning-dev at lists.linuxfoundation.org\u003e\n\u003e Subject: Re: [Lightning-dev] Peer selection\n\u003e Message-ID:\n\u003e \u003cCA+Zg=cwRD-YKtXYjg+0K6Q75E77gS5quON456wGbnTb7R-5-ag at mail.gmail.com\u003e\n\u003e Content-Type: text/plain; charset=\"UTF-8\"\n\u003e\n\u003e I see - thank you.\n\u003e\n\u003e How to I discover nodes - is there any UI to see nodes currently\n\u003e running on the network ?\n\u003e\n\u003e\u003e 3. How do I find out if someone wants to connect to me?\n\u003e\u003e The node connects to yours and sends channel funding messages.\n\u003e\n\u003e In this case there is some kind of an UI where I can accept or reject - correct?\n\u003e Or I auto-accept everyone that connects to me?\n\u003e\n\u003e\u003e If you intend to connect for the purpose of becoming a hub and earning routing fees, if you have some onchain bitcoins you can afford to invest, then it is to your interest to channel with relatively new and low-connectivity nodes.\n\u003e\n\u003e If I become a hub, how much to I earn, approximately in routing fees?\n\u003e Is it a percentage of transactions? Are routing fees the same for all\n\u003e hubs?\n\u003e\n\u003e If I am connecting to the network and see many hubs - how can I select\n\u003e which hub to connect to? Is there any performance/reputation info\n\u003e available for any hub?\n\u003e\n\u003e\n\u003e\n\u003e\n\u003e On Wed, Dec 13, 2017 at 2:36 AM, ZmnSCPxj \u003cZmnSCPxj at protonmail.com\u003e wrote:\n\u003e\u003e Good morning Stan,\n\u003e\u003e\n\u003e\u003e\u003e1. How do I select the nodes to peer with?\n\u003e\u003e\n\u003e\u003e By whatever selection criteria you wish.\n\u003e\u003e\n\u003e\u003e In practice, lnd offers an \"auto-pilot\" where it selects peers to channel\n\u003e\u003e with automatically using some heuristic (which I do not know). My\n\u003e\u003e understanding, c-lightning will eventually offer a similar feature at some\n\u003e\u003e point in the future.\n\u003e\u003e\n\u003e\u003e Presumably node gossip will let you learn of other nodes that you might\n\u003e\u003e channel with in the future.\n\u003e\u003e\n\u003e\u003e\u003e2. How do I make them to do deposits - ideally I want them to match $100\n\u003e\u003e\u003e each.\n\u003e\u003e\n\u003e\u003e Currently, channels are initially single-funded. There is a proposal\n\u003e\u003e https://github.com/lightningnetwork/lightning-rfc/pull/184 for dual-funded\n\u003e\u003e channel setup, but did not make it into 1.0.\n\u003e\u003e\n\u003e\u003e\u003eBut since they are presumably already sufficiently connected to\n\u003e\u003e\u003ethe network, why would they lock more funds?\n\u003e\u003e\n\u003e\u003e It helps to consider that you are not particularly special, and neither are\n\u003e\u003e the existing nodes on the network particularly special.\n\u003e\u003e\n\u003e\u003e If you have a reason to open a channel to an arbitrary node, then other\n\u003e\u003e nodes have a reason to open a channel to an arbitrary node, which might be\n\u003e\u003e you. Even if the network grows large, that also means there are more\n\u003e\u003e participants who might decide, via whatever heuristic, to channel to your\n\u003e\u003e node.\n\u003e\u003e\n\u003e\u003e If you intend to connect for the purpose of becoming a hub and earning\n\u003e\u003e routing fees, if you have some onchain bitcoins you can afford to invest,\n\u003e\u003e then it is to your interest to channel with relatively new and\n\u003e\u003e low-connectivity nodes. Such nodes might receive payments and if you are one\n\u003e\u003e of the few routes (or the only route) you then get a higher chance of being\n\u003e\u003e routed through. Inverting this, if you have a new node with a few channels,\n\u003e\u003e others aspiring to become hubs will want to lock spare funds to channel to\n\u003e\u003e your node in case you become a very prolific user (sender or receiver) of\n\u003e\u003e the network in the future.\n\u003e\u003e\n\u003e\u003e\u003e3. How do I find out if someone wants to connect to me?\n\u003e\u003e\n\u003e\u003e The node connects to yours and sends channel funding messages.\n\u003e\u003e\n\u003e\u003e Regards,\n\u003e\u003e ZmnSCPxj\n\u003e\n\u003e\n\u003e ------------------------------\n\u003e\n\u003e _______________________________________________\n\u003e Lightning-dev mailing list\n\u003e Lightning-dev at lists.linuxfoundation.org\n\u003e https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/lightning-dev\n\u003e\n\u003e\n\u003e End of Lightning-dev Digest, Vol 28, Issue 9\n\u003e ********************************************",
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