📅 Original date posted:2013-11-15
📝 Original message:On Thu, Nov 14, 2013 at 11:03 PM, Jeff Garzik <jgarzik at bitpay.com> wrote:
> Go straight to uBTC. Humans and existing computer systems handle numbers
> to the left of the decimals just fine (HK Dollars, Yen). The opposite is
> untrue (QuickBooks really does not like 3+ decimal places).
>
I have used mBTC for a long time and never had cope with more than two
numbers to the right of the decimal (which is the norm in euro countries).
Sure, if we have another 100x+ price increase then μBTC is a better pick,
but right now that would give us *intimidating large numbers*.
Though I have always liked the idea of moving to mBTC or μBTC, I want the
community to take initiative before switching over the default in the
reference client. The alternative units should first be sufficiently known
to the user base.
It has been possible for a long time to set the reference client to those
units (and all mentions of monetary value are accompanied with a unit).
Maybe we should stealthily collect people's settings and switch over once a
majority switched *ducks*.
Or, more seriously, maybe add a popup when upgrading the first time to 0.9
with an explanation where people can reconsider their unit setting?
Wladimir
> - Jeff
> On Nov 14, 2013 4:40 PM, "Mark Friedenbach" <mark at monetize.io> wrote:
>
>> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
>> Hash: SHA1
>>
>> For this reason I'm in favor of skipping mBTC and moving straight to
>> uBTC. Having eight, or even five decimal places is not intuitive to
>> the average user. Two decimal places is becoming standard for new
>> national currencies, and we wouldn't be too far from human scale
>> everyday numbers: 25.00uBTC ~= $0.01 currently. And I don't think very
>> many people on this list would consider bitcoin overvalued in the long
>> term perspective.
>>
>> Better to go through a confusing renumbering only once.
>>
>> Mark
>>
>> On 11/14/13 12:01 PM, Alan Reiner wrote:
>> > ... I'm also of the opinion that it's freakin' hard to change the
>> > base unit in such an established system. There is no easy way to
>> > do this that doesn't cause more heartache than it's worth...
>> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
>> Version: GnuPG/MacGPG2 v2.0.19 (Darwin)
>> Comment: GPGTools - http://gpgtools.org
>> Comment: Using GnuPG with Thunderbird - http://www.enigmail.net/
>>
>> iQIcBAEBAgAGBQJShT2JAAoJEAdzVfsmodw4DXAQAIJTNbpwBGTXuFyaxXQULf20
>> hMs7OlQZSOZOdsmSiPv2augxzbpa2DhhZjiosrScSBCjxMeYd4S6WgTt/b8moAYR
>> HD8pm88JyCKDOd7bOmzTkgDOTBBFfH+islmOY9VTdeKGHeOHH6yyLMKwnUpa+S89
>> 4YtdzlIXAtfT37dpR5E4cHPmAYCbrRsNOB6j5ohVl2VqRou2vkwoJr/YvaW54M8i
>> ucIZyai2qjNWyJLcZC9QWi9Yw/W/n9QYE2mHyL0qWNaIrZVn6WGty8KpYq+i7aeU
>> 4N4UdtLT7FAhWYec9nmEec868WsUsd+H3/WSWViMinUKO4YA3cyxWDL7MTmTRsci
>> g0R4WGYCzMM3cEWz5ycf5KEBPH/nDlbqFmEartTffqKXgrK5Ohhw+28Iqw5KcDX8
>> SVx34lw2yHWmTeIMY8d3qYKqBdcsvixDUD3xvq+ZqEIa+bZw12s4LIzqmir84TB8
>> fB4bdq5GddXX0PK4pboXL+Nib0OVK72YgYnVs/ejlBmeiG8Ixoz4/ygR5MHm8jcw
>> tSiwH0xohOJWg3lJj0vZorubXoECcOqwPzsZkwnT9irbrvOuk2jCPvrkEC8U9fgA
>> XHgirStS49/lI/iUWrRchoTt5iuwG18G4+E81V/DMsrSkYlipuf2DlEXiapn3hWz
>> ccP053+6o5Rgpc7J1aa0
>> =QW1i
>> -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> DreamFactory - Open Source REST & JSON Services for HTML5 & Native Apps
>> OAuth, Users, Roles, SQL, NoSQL, BLOB Storage and External API Access
>> Free app hosting. Or install the open source package on any LAMP server.
>> Sign up and see examples for AngularJS, jQuery, Sencha Touch and Native!
>>
>> http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=63469471&iu=/4140/ostg.clktrk
>> _______________________________________________
>> Bitcoin-development mailing list
>> Bitcoin-development at lists.sourceforge.net
>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bitcoin-development
>>
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> DreamFactory - Open Source REST & JSON Services for HTML5 & Native Apps
> OAuth, Users, Roles, SQL, NoSQL, BLOB Storage and External API Access
> Free app hosting. Or install the open source package on any LAMP server.
> Sign up and see examples for AngularJS, jQuery, Sencha Touch and Native!
> http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=63469471&iu=/4140/ostg.clktrk
> _______________________________________________
> Bitcoin-development mailing list
> Bitcoin-development at lists.sourceforge.net
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bitcoin-development
>
>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://lists.linuxfoundation.org/pipermail/bitcoin-dev/attachments/20131115/64a9bcfe/attachment.html>;
Wladimir [ARCHIVE] /
npub1xq…ymc2p
2023-06-07 15:09:41
in reply to nevent1q…chfs
Author Public Key
npub1xqshkqv2g7uea4xzqwvmgjcz7u8vfavw6aazs999v0azsv3w7u3qpymc2pPublished at
2023-06-07 15:09:41Event JSON
{
"id": "f7272c18b857acbf6cc1fac0f010d63d6498e96f25eb18b103117f30043ca8b2",
"pubkey": "30217b018a47b99ed4c20399b44b02f70ec4f58ed77a2814a563fa28322ef722",
"created_at": 1686150581,
"kind": 1,
"tags": [
[
"e",
"f949fa80b2178db0fa7c7377159ffdf8cd87cc4a75383c5243367fef9a888c57",
"",
"root"
],
[
"e",
"a08a779ea3ae650638b349d1c6a74e2ebc44eadd0b4ab17d6a624b3cde703744",
"",
"reply"
],
[
"p",
"e7bcf4d0ea05abfd67a8230b26a8de70392ff0b8b26ddf0f858224059aff100b"
]
],
"content": "📅 Original date posted:2013-11-15\n📝 Original message:On Thu, Nov 14, 2013 at 11:03 PM, Jeff Garzik \u003cjgarzik at bitpay.com\u003e wrote:\n\n\u003e Go straight to uBTC. Humans and existing computer systems handle numbers\n\u003e to the left of the decimals just fine (HK Dollars, Yen). The opposite is\n\u003e untrue (QuickBooks really does not like 3+ decimal places).\n\u003e\nI have used mBTC for a long time and never had cope with more than two\nnumbers to the right of the decimal (which is the norm in euro countries).\nSure, if we have another 100x+ price increase then μBTC is a better pick,\nbut right now that would give us *intimidating large numbers*.\n\nThough I have always liked the idea of moving to mBTC or μBTC, I want the\ncommunity to take initiative before switching over the default in the\nreference client. The alternative units should first be sufficiently known\nto the user base.\n\nIt has been possible for a long time to set the reference client to those\nunits (and all mentions of monetary value are accompanied with a unit).\nMaybe we should stealthily collect people's settings and switch over once a\nmajority switched *ducks*.\n\nOr, more seriously, maybe add a popup when upgrading the first time to 0.9\nwith an explanation where people can reconsider their unit setting?\n\nWladimir\n\n\n\n\u003e - Jeff\n\u003e On Nov 14, 2013 4:40 PM, \"Mark Friedenbach\" \u003cmark at monetize.io\u003e wrote:\n\u003e\n\u003e\u003e -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----\n\u003e\u003e Hash: SHA1\n\u003e\u003e\n\u003e\u003e For this reason I'm in favor of skipping mBTC and moving straight to\n\u003e\u003e uBTC. Having eight, or even five decimal places is not intuitive to\n\u003e\u003e the average user. Two decimal places is becoming standard for new\n\u003e\u003e national currencies, and we wouldn't be too far from human scale\n\u003e\u003e everyday numbers: 25.00uBTC ~= $0.01 currently. And I don't think very\n\u003e\u003e many people on this list would consider bitcoin overvalued in the long\n\u003e\u003e term perspective.\n\u003e\u003e\n\u003e\u003e Better to go through a confusing renumbering only once.\n\u003e\u003e\n\u003e\u003e Mark\n\u003e\u003e\n\u003e\u003e On 11/14/13 12:01 PM, Alan Reiner wrote:\n\u003e\u003e \u003e ... I'm also of the opinion that it's freakin' hard to change the\n\u003e\u003e \u003e base unit in such an established system. There is no easy way to\n\u003e\u003e \u003e do this that doesn't cause more heartache than it's worth...\n\u003e\u003e -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----\n\u003e\u003e Version: GnuPG/MacGPG2 v2.0.19 (Darwin)\n\u003e\u003e Comment: GPGTools - http://gpgtools.org\n\u003e\u003e Comment: Using GnuPG with Thunderbird - http://www.enigmail.net/\n\u003e\u003e\n\u003e\u003e iQIcBAEBAgAGBQJShT2JAAoJEAdzVfsmodw4DXAQAIJTNbpwBGTXuFyaxXQULf20\n\u003e\u003e hMs7OlQZSOZOdsmSiPv2augxzbpa2DhhZjiosrScSBCjxMeYd4S6WgTt/b8moAYR\n\u003e\u003e HD8pm88JyCKDOd7bOmzTkgDOTBBFfH+islmOY9VTdeKGHeOHH6yyLMKwnUpa+S89\n\u003e\u003e 4YtdzlIXAtfT37dpR5E4cHPmAYCbrRsNOB6j5ohVl2VqRou2vkwoJr/YvaW54M8i\n\u003e\u003e ucIZyai2qjNWyJLcZC9QWi9Yw/W/n9QYE2mHyL0qWNaIrZVn6WGty8KpYq+i7aeU\n\u003e\u003e 4N4UdtLT7FAhWYec9nmEec868WsUsd+H3/WSWViMinUKO4YA3cyxWDL7MTmTRsci\n\u003e\u003e g0R4WGYCzMM3cEWz5ycf5KEBPH/nDlbqFmEartTffqKXgrK5Ohhw+28Iqw5KcDX8\n\u003e\u003e SVx34lw2yHWmTeIMY8d3qYKqBdcsvixDUD3xvq+ZqEIa+bZw12s4LIzqmir84TB8\n\u003e\u003e fB4bdq5GddXX0PK4pboXL+Nib0OVK72YgYnVs/ejlBmeiG8Ixoz4/ygR5MHm8jcw\n\u003e\u003e tSiwH0xohOJWg3lJj0vZorubXoECcOqwPzsZkwnT9irbrvOuk2jCPvrkEC8U9fgA\n\u003e\u003e XHgirStS49/lI/iUWrRchoTt5iuwG18G4+E81V/DMsrSkYlipuf2DlEXiapn3hWz\n\u003e\u003e ccP053+6o5Rgpc7J1aa0\n\u003e\u003e =QW1i\n\u003e\u003e -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----\n\u003e\u003e\n\u003e\u003e\n\u003e\u003e ------------------------------------------------------------------------------\n\u003e\u003e DreamFactory - Open Source REST \u0026 JSON Services for HTML5 \u0026 Native Apps\n\u003e\u003e OAuth, Users, Roles, SQL, NoSQL, BLOB Storage and External API Access\n\u003e\u003e Free app hosting. Or install the open source package on any LAMP server.\n\u003e\u003e Sign up and see examples for AngularJS, jQuery, Sencha Touch and Native!\n\u003e\u003e\n\u003e\u003e http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=63469471\u0026iu=/4140/ostg.clktrk\n\u003e\u003e _______________________________________________\n\u003e\u003e Bitcoin-development mailing list\n\u003e\u003e Bitcoin-development at lists.sourceforge.net\n\u003e\u003e https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bitcoin-development\n\u003e\u003e\n\u003e\n\u003e\n\u003e ------------------------------------------------------------------------------\n\u003e DreamFactory - Open Source REST \u0026 JSON Services for HTML5 \u0026 Native Apps\n\u003e OAuth, Users, Roles, SQL, NoSQL, BLOB Storage and External API Access\n\u003e Free app hosting. Or install the open source package on any LAMP server.\n\u003e Sign up and see examples for AngularJS, jQuery, Sencha Touch and Native!\n\u003e http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=63469471\u0026iu=/4140/ostg.clktrk\n\u003e _______________________________________________\n\u003e Bitcoin-development mailing list\n\u003e Bitcoin-development at lists.sourceforge.net\n\u003e https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bitcoin-development\n\u003e\n\u003e\n-------------- next part --------------\nAn HTML attachment was scrubbed...\nURL: \u003chttp://lists.linuxfoundation.org/pipermail/bitcoin-dev/attachments/20131115/64a9bcfe/attachment.html\u003e",
"sig": "1b39dc0f1f1462f3674e55421abf04f5b3e1a5a1bcd0c562c7671b3ee1b31892c2d5b151c19e97ef4da65cd007f081686002adfd7d204ff5bf3540c797835577"
}