📅 Original date posted:2017-06-06
📝 Original message:> CoinJoin works as a method of both improving fungibility and mixing with
> coinbase transactions.
My understanding is that the two situations are quite different.
Unlike mixing to coin-split, CoinJoin doesn't create a high demand exclusively for coinbase transactions.
However, of the proposed methods, coin-mixing seems the better option, because it might be reasonably easy (I don't know) for exchanges to obtain 148 coinbase coins, and mix their coins with them, extending the coin-splitting capability beyond just miner coins and then using that to split incoming coins.
That seems like the most reasonable approach I've heard so far. Whether exchanges would be willing to do that is a separate question.
> When it's confirmed on one chain, but not on the other, you
> can then "double-spend" on the lower hashrate chain with a higher fee,
> to end up with different coins on both chains.
This method is time consuming and not guaranteed to work. CPFP can be used by an attacker to get your original txn into the 148 chain.
> (also, no double-n in untenable)
Why thank you aj, you're so good at spelling. :-)
Cheers,
Greg
--
Please do not email me anything that you are not comfortable also sharing with the NSA.
> On Jun 6, 2017, at 4:20 PM, Anthony Towns via bitcoin-dev <bitcoin-dev at lists.linuxfoundation.org <mailto:bitcoin-dev at lists.linuxfoundation.org>> wrote:
>
> On Tue, Jun 06, 2017 at 03:39:28PM -0700, Tao Effect via bitcoin-dev wrote:
>> - Mixing with 148 coinbase txns destroys fungibility.
>
> CoinJoin works as a method of both improving fungibility and mixing with
> coinbase transactions.
>
> You probably don't need to do anything clever to split a coin though:
> if you send a transaction with a standard fee it will get confirmed
> in a normal time on the higher hashrate chain, but won't confirm as
> quickly on the lower hashrate chain (precisely because transactions are
> valid on both chains, but blocks are found more slowly with the lower
> hashrate). When it's confirmed on one chain, but not on the other, you
> can then "double-spend" on the lower hashrate chain with a higher fee,
> to end up with different coins on both chains.
>
> (also, no double-n in untenable)
>
> Cheers,
> aj
>
> _______________________________________________
> bitcoin-dev mailing list
> bitcoin-dev at lists.linuxfoundation.org <mailto:bitcoin-dev at lists.linuxfoundation.org>
> https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/bitcoin-dev
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://lists.linuxfoundation.org/pipermail/bitcoin-dev/attachments/20170606/ddaf726e/attachment-0001.html>;
-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: signature.asc
Type: application/pgp-signature
Size: 801 bytes
Desc: Message signed with OpenPGP
URL: <http://lists.linuxfoundation.org/pipermail/bitcoin-dev/attachments/20170606/ddaf726e/attachment-0001.sig>;
Tao Effect [ARCHIVE] /
npub1r0…vdpg3
2023-06-07 18:02:26
in reply to nevent1q…uwyu
Author Public Key
npub1r0g954grld59fuphzsypmuuhpdunq67f729afmp44h2mxvth2hts4vdpg3Published at
2023-06-07 18:02:26Event JSON
{
"id": "f5a5c4045d4a92240e64b4d2463c7b7a61f8de788f69725d02d0c7780b01d26f",
"pubkey": "1bd05a5503fb6854f03714081df3970b79306bc9f28bd4ec35add5b3317755d7",
"created_at": 1686160946,
"kind": 1,
"tags": [
[
"e",
"753128ff5203f7385f15743651b80e2131d69a7ed154ad15484c1ff10dea468c",
"",
"root"
],
[
"e",
"b48a421b80f68fd659b88d6b2a4fa9d55c3c94f9499fb7b9a2a3bf8d210047c9",
"",
"reply"
],
[
"p",
"f0feda6ad58ea9f486e469f87b3b9996494363a26982b864667c5d8acb0542ab"
]
],
"content": "📅 Original date posted:2017-06-06\n📝 Original message:\u003e CoinJoin works as a method of both improving fungibility and mixing with\n\u003e coinbase transactions.\n\nMy understanding is that the two situations are quite different.\n\nUnlike mixing to coin-split, CoinJoin doesn't create a high demand exclusively for coinbase transactions.\n\nHowever, of the proposed methods, coin-mixing seems the better option, because it might be reasonably easy (I don't know) for exchanges to obtain 148 coinbase coins, and mix their coins with them, extending the coin-splitting capability beyond just miner coins and then using that to split incoming coins.\n\nThat seems like the most reasonable approach I've heard so far. Whether exchanges would be willing to do that is a separate question.\n\n\u003e When it's confirmed on one chain, but not on the other, you\n\u003e can then \"double-spend\" on the lower hashrate chain with a higher fee,\n\u003e to end up with different coins on both chains.\n\nThis method is time consuming and not guaranteed to work. CPFP can be used by an attacker to get your original txn into the 148 chain.\n\n\u003e (also, no double-n in untenable)\n\nWhy thank you aj, you're so good at spelling. :-)\n\nCheers,\nGreg\n\n--\nPlease do not email me anything that you are not comfortable also sharing with the NSA.\n\n\u003e On Jun 6, 2017, at 4:20 PM, Anthony Towns via bitcoin-dev \u003cbitcoin-dev at lists.linuxfoundation.org \u003cmailto:bitcoin-dev at lists.linuxfoundation.org\u003e\u003e wrote:\n\u003e \n\u003e On Tue, Jun 06, 2017 at 03:39:28PM -0700, Tao Effect via bitcoin-dev wrote:\n\u003e\u003e - Mixing with 148 coinbase txns destroys fungibility.\n\u003e \n\u003e CoinJoin works as a method of both improving fungibility and mixing with\n\u003e coinbase transactions.\n\u003e \n\u003e You probably don't need to do anything clever to split a coin though:\n\u003e if you send a transaction with a standard fee it will get confirmed\n\u003e in a normal time on the higher hashrate chain, but won't confirm as\n\u003e quickly on the lower hashrate chain (precisely because transactions are\n\u003e valid on both chains, but blocks are found more slowly with the lower\n\u003e hashrate). When it's confirmed on one chain, but not on the other, you\n\u003e can then \"double-spend\" on the lower hashrate chain with a higher fee,\n\u003e to end up with different coins on both chains.\n\u003e \n\u003e (also, no double-n in untenable)\n\u003e \n\u003e Cheers,\n\u003e aj\n\u003e \n\u003e _______________________________________________\n\u003e bitcoin-dev mailing list\n\u003e bitcoin-dev at lists.linuxfoundation.org \u003cmailto:bitcoin-dev at lists.linuxfoundation.org\u003e\n\u003e https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/bitcoin-dev\n\n-------------- next part --------------\nAn HTML attachment was scrubbed...\nURL: \u003chttp://lists.linuxfoundation.org/pipermail/bitcoin-dev/attachments/20170606/ddaf726e/attachment-0001.html\u003e\n-------------- next part --------------\nA non-text attachment was scrubbed...\nName: signature.asc\nType: application/pgp-signature\nSize: 801 bytes\nDesc: Message signed with OpenPGP\nURL: \u003chttp://lists.linuxfoundation.org/pipermail/bitcoin-dev/attachments/20170606/ddaf726e/attachment-0001.sig\u003e",
"sig": "9d9fe14e91de045cf725062ae01a23704171eab3f5a50dc02428a6744669b9c0db7b59f505d78837150421d090da335c08e511f02a0fe0b1b9cc1e61085d84b3"
}