📅 Original date posted:2014-05-19
📝 Original message:Asking random ignorant stranger to care to protect themselves never works.
We need solution that requires strictly zero effort.
Best regards,
Alex Kotenko
2014-05-19 14:06 GMT+01:00 Brooks Boyd <boydb at midnightdesign.ws>:
> >> 2014-05-18 13:14 GMT+01:00 Andreas Schildbach <andreas at schildbach.de>:
> >> One problem we couldn't figure out here though - how to protect the
> >> notes from unauthorized redeem. Like if someone else tries to reach your
> >> wallet with his own NFC - how can we distinguish between deliberate
> >> redeem by owner and fraudulent redeem by anybody else with custom built
> >> long range NFC antenna? Any ideas?
> >>
> >> I think you'd need multiple factors to protect against that attack. Like
> >> encrypting with a key that is printed on the note as an QR code.
> >
> >On Sun, May 18, 2014 at 7:51 AM, Alex Kotenko <alexykot at gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > Yes, but it must not sacrifice usability. It's paper money, people are
> used to it and they have rather high standard of expectations in this area.
> Any usbility sacrifices in this area result into failure of the whole thing.
> >
> > Best regards,
> > Alex Kotenko
>
> One thought I had reading through this exchange: I think the general
> public is becoming more aware of the "hacker with a long range
> antenna" sort of attack, since credit cards are getting microchips
> that can be scanned. There's a few videos I've seen of white hat
> hackers demonstrating how a suitcase-sized apparatus carried by
> someone walking down the street can scan and make charges on cards in
> people's pockets as the attacker brushes past. Hence RFID-blocking
> sleeves/wallets are on the market, such that your smart credit card
> can't make a purchase while its in your wallet. Is a RFID-blocking
> wallet also NFC-blocking? Irregardless of whatever "future cash" you
> choose to carry (be it credit card or bitcoin card/coin/cash), perhaps
> its the wallet/purse that needs an upgrade, to ensure your money
> doesn't spend itself while its in your pocket, but you can easily
> remove it and spend it conveniently?
>
> Brooks
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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Alex Kotenko [ARCHIVE] /
npub14j…h00t4
2023-06-07 15:21:35
in reply to nevent1q…fu3x
Author Public Key
npub14jv7tj33yt72yk8mljmvkck3p4xm5s3mxfpj289up38qqsn9dhkqeh00t4Published at
2023-06-07 15:21:35Event JSON
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"content": "📅 Original date posted:2014-05-19\n📝 Original message:Asking random ignorant stranger to care to protect themselves never works.\nWe need solution that requires strictly zero effort.\n\n\nBest regards,\nAlex Kotenko\n\n\n2014-05-19 14:06 GMT+01:00 Brooks Boyd \u003cboydb at midnightdesign.ws\u003e:\n\n\u003e \u003e\u003e 2014-05-18 13:14 GMT+01:00 Andreas Schildbach \u003candreas at schildbach.de\u003e:\n\u003e \u003e\u003e One problem we couldn't figure out here though - how to protect the\n\u003e \u003e\u003e notes from unauthorized redeem. Like if someone else tries to reach your\n\u003e \u003e\u003e wallet with his own NFC - how can we distinguish between deliberate\n\u003e \u003e\u003e redeem by owner and fraudulent redeem by anybody else with custom built\n\u003e \u003e\u003e long range NFC antenna? Any ideas?\n\u003e \u003e\u003e\n\u003e \u003e\u003e I think you'd need multiple factors to protect against that attack. Like\n\u003e \u003e\u003e encrypting with a key that is printed on the note as an QR code.\n\u003e \u003e\n\u003e \u003eOn Sun, May 18, 2014 at 7:51 AM, Alex Kotenko \u003calexykot at gmail.com\u003e wrote:\n\u003e \u003e\n\u003e \u003e Yes, but it must not sacrifice usability. It's paper money, people are\n\u003e used to it and they have rather high standard of expectations in this area.\n\u003e Any usbility sacrifices in this area result into failure of the whole thing.\n\u003e \u003e\n\u003e \u003e Best regards,\n\u003e \u003e Alex Kotenko\n\u003e\n\u003e One thought I had reading through this exchange: I think the general\n\u003e public is becoming more aware of the \"hacker with a long range\n\u003e antenna\" sort of attack, since credit cards are getting microchips\n\u003e that can be scanned. There's a few videos I've seen of white hat\n\u003e hackers demonstrating how a suitcase-sized apparatus carried by\n\u003e someone walking down the street can scan and make charges on cards in\n\u003e people's pockets as the attacker brushes past. Hence RFID-blocking\n\u003e sleeves/wallets are on the market, such that your smart credit card\n\u003e can't make a purchase while its in your wallet. Is a RFID-blocking\n\u003e wallet also NFC-blocking? Irregardless of whatever \"future cash\" you\n\u003e choose to carry (be it credit card or bitcoin card/coin/cash), perhaps\n\u003e its the wallet/purse that needs an upgrade, to ensure your money\n\u003e doesn't spend itself while its in your pocket, but you can easily\n\u003e remove it and spend it conveniently?\n\u003e\n\u003e Brooks\n\u003e\n\u003e\n\u003e ------------------------------------------------------------------------------\n\u003e \"Accelerate Dev Cycles with Automated Cross-Browser Testing - For FREE\n\u003e Instantly run your Selenium tests across 300+ browser/OS combos.\n\u003e Get unparalleled scalability from the best Selenium testing platform\n\u003e available\n\u003e Simple to use. Nothing to install. Get started now for free.\"\n\u003e http://p.sf.net/sfu/SauceLabs\n\u003e _______________________________________________\n\u003e Bitcoin-development mailing list\n\u003e Bitcoin-development at lists.sourceforge.net\n\u003e https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bitcoin-development\n\u003e\n-------------- next part --------------\nAn HTML attachment was scrubbed...\nURL: \u003chttp://lists.linuxfoundation.org/pipermail/bitcoin-dev/attachments/20140519/66c3777d/attachment.html\u003e",
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