📅 Original date posted:2014-06-06
📝 Original message:Whenever you do a reissuing of a transaction that didn't go through
earlier, you should make sure to reuse one of the inputs for it. That
guarantees that both cannot confirm simultaneously.
On Sat, Jun 7, 2014 at 12:21 AM, Raúl Martínez <rme at i-rme.es> wrote:
> Alice does not intercept the transaction, she only saves it and expect that
> it will not be confirmed (because has 0 fee for example).
>
> Also using the Payment Protocol I believe that Alice is the only person that
> can relay Bob's transaction.
>
> Source: https://github.com/bitcoin/bips/blob/master/bip-0070.mediawiki
>
>> When the merchant's server receives the Payment message, it must determine
>> whether or not the transactions satisfy conditions of payment. If and only
>> if they do, if should broadcast the transaction(s) on the Bitcoin p2p
>> network.
>
>
>
> 2014-06-07 0:11 GMT+02:00 Toshi Morita <toshi at peernova.com>:
>
>> From what I know, Alice does not know to which node Bob will broadcast the
>> transaction. Therefore, Alice cannot intercept the transaction and prevent
>> the rest of the network from seeing it.
>>
>> Toshi
>>
>>
>>
>> On Fri, Jun 6, 2014 at 3:02 PM, Raúl Martínez <rme at i-rme.es> wrote:
>>>
>>> I dont know if this attack is even possible, it came to my mind and I
>>> will try to explain it as good as possible.
>>>
>>> Some transacions keep unconfirmed forever and finally they are purged by
>>> Bitcoin nodes, mostly due to the lack of fees.
>>>
>>>
>>> Example:
>>> ---------
>>>
>>> Alice is selling a pizza to Bob, Bob is now making the payment with
>>> Bitcoin.
>>> The main goal of this attack is to store a unconfirmed transaction send
>>> by Bob for a few days (it will not be included in the blockchain because it
>>> has no fee or due to other reason), Bob might resend the payment or might
>>> just cancel the deal with Alice.
>>>
>>> Bob forgets about that failed trade but a couple of days later, Alice,
>>> who has stored the signed transacion, relays the transaction to the network
>>> (or mines it directly with his own hashpower).
>>> Bob does not know what is happening, he believed that that transaction
>>> was "canceled forever", he even does not remember the failed pizza deal.
>>>
>>> Alice has now the bitcoins and Bob does not know what happened with his
>>> money.
>>>
>>> ---------
>>>
>>> This might also work with the Payment Protocol because when using it Bob
>>> does not relay the transaction to the network, its Alices job to do it,
>>> Alice stores it and tells Bob to resend the payment, Bob creates another
>>> transaction (If has the same inputs as the first TX this does not work)
>>> (this one is relayed by Alice to the network).
>>>
>>> Alice comes back a couple of days later and mines with his hashrate the
>>> first transaction (the one she didnt relayed to the network).
>>>
>>> Alice now has two payments, Bob does not know what happened.
>>>
>>>
>>> -----------
>>>
>>> I hope that I explained well this possible attack, I dont know if there
>>> is already a fix for this problem or if it is simply impossible to execute
>>> this kind of attack.
>>>
>>> Thanks for your time.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>> Learn Graph Databases - Download FREE O'Reilly Book
>>> "Graph Databases" is the definitive new guide to graph databases and
>>> their
>>> applications. Written by three acclaimed leaders in the field,
>>> this first edition is now available. Download your free book today!
>>> http://p.sf.net/sfu/NeoTech
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Bitcoin-development mailing list
>>> Bitcoin-development at lists.sourceforge.net
>>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bitcoin-development
>>>
>>
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Learn Graph Databases - Download FREE O'Reilly Book
> "Graph Databases" is the definitive new guide to graph databases and their
> applications. Written by three acclaimed leaders in the field,
> this first edition is now available. Download your free book today!
> http://p.sf.net/sfu/NeoTech
> _______________________________________________
> Bitcoin-development mailing list
> Bitcoin-development at lists.sourceforge.net
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bitcoin-development
>
Pieter Wuille [ARCHIVE] /
npub1tj…jtl6r
2023-06-07 15:22:32
in reply to nevent1q…frur
Author Public Key
npub1tjephawh7fdf6358jufuh5eyxwauzrjqa7qn50pglee4tayc2ntqcjtl6rPublished at
2023-06-07 15:22:32Event JSON
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"content": "📅 Original date posted:2014-06-06\n📝 Original message:Whenever you do a reissuing of a transaction that didn't go through\nearlier, you should make sure to reuse one of the inputs for it. That\nguarantees that both cannot confirm simultaneously.\n\nOn Sat, Jun 7, 2014 at 12:21 AM, Raúl Martínez \u003crme at i-rme.es\u003e wrote:\n\u003e Alice does not intercept the transaction, she only saves it and expect that\n\u003e it will not be confirmed (because has 0 fee for example).\n\u003e\n\u003e Also using the Payment Protocol I believe that Alice is the only person that\n\u003e can relay Bob's transaction.\n\u003e\n\u003e Source: https://github.com/bitcoin/bips/blob/master/bip-0070.mediawiki\n\u003e\n\u003e\u003e When the merchant's server receives the Payment message, it must determine\n\u003e\u003e whether or not the transactions satisfy conditions of payment. If and only\n\u003e\u003e if they do, if should broadcast the transaction(s) on the Bitcoin p2p\n\u003e\u003e network.\n\u003e\n\u003e\n\u003e\n\u003e 2014-06-07 0:11 GMT+02:00 Toshi Morita \u003ctoshi at peernova.com\u003e:\n\u003e\n\u003e\u003e From what I know, Alice does not know to which node Bob will broadcast the\n\u003e\u003e transaction. Therefore, Alice cannot intercept the transaction and prevent\n\u003e\u003e the rest of the network from seeing it.\n\u003e\u003e\n\u003e\u003e Toshi\n\u003e\u003e\n\u003e\u003e\n\u003e\u003e\n\u003e\u003e On Fri, Jun 6, 2014 at 3:02 PM, Raúl Martínez \u003crme at i-rme.es\u003e wrote:\n\u003e\u003e\u003e\n\u003e\u003e\u003e I dont know if this attack is even possible, it came to my mind and I\n\u003e\u003e\u003e will try to explain it as good as possible.\n\u003e\u003e\u003e\n\u003e\u003e\u003e Some transacions keep unconfirmed forever and finally they are purged by\n\u003e\u003e\u003e Bitcoin nodes, mostly due to the lack of fees.\n\u003e\u003e\u003e\n\u003e\u003e\u003e\n\u003e\u003e\u003e Example:\n\u003e\u003e\u003e ---------\n\u003e\u003e\u003e\n\u003e\u003e\u003e Alice is selling a pizza to Bob, Bob is now making the payment with\n\u003e\u003e\u003e Bitcoin.\n\u003e\u003e\u003e The main goal of this attack is to store a unconfirmed transaction send\n\u003e\u003e\u003e by Bob for a few days (it will not be included in the blockchain because it\n\u003e\u003e\u003e has no fee or due to other reason), Bob might resend the payment or might\n\u003e\u003e\u003e just cancel the deal with Alice.\n\u003e\u003e\u003e\n\u003e\u003e\u003e Bob forgets about that failed trade but a couple of days later, Alice,\n\u003e\u003e\u003e who has stored the signed transacion, relays the transaction to the network\n\u003e\u003e\u003e (or mines it directly with his own hashpower).\n\u003e\u003e\u003e Bob does not know what is happening, he believed that that transaction\n\u003e\u003e\u003e was \"canceled forever\", he even does not remember the failed pizza deal.\n\u003e\u003e\u003e\n\u003e\u003e\u003e Alice has now the bitcoins and Bob does not know what happened with his\n\u003e\u003e\u003e money.\n\u003e\u003e\u003e\n\u003e\u003e\u003e ---------\n\u003e\u003e\u003e\n\u003e\u003e\u003e This might also work with the Payment Protocol because when using it Bob\n\u003e\u003e\u003e does not relay the transaction to the network, its Alices job to do it,\n\u003e\u003e\u003e Alice stores it and tells Bob to resend the payment, Bob creates another\n\u003e\u003e\u003e transaction (If has the same inputs as the first TX this does not work)\n\u003e\u003e\u003e (this one is relayed by Alice to the network).\n\u003e\u003e\u003e\n\u003e\u003e\u003e Alice comes back a couple of days later and mines with his hashrate the\n\u003e\u003e\u003e first transaction (the one she didnt relayed to the network).\n\u003e\u003e\u003e\n\u003e\u003e\u003e Alice now has two payments, Bob does not know what happened.\n\u003e\u003e\u003e\n\u003e\u003e\u003e\n\u003e\u003e\u003e -----------\n\u003e\u003e\u003e\n\u003e\u003e\u003e I hope that I explained well this possible attack, I dont know if there\n\u003e\u003e\u003e is already a fix for this problem or if it is simply impossible to execute\n\u003e\u003e\u003e this kind of attack.\n\u003e\u003e\u003e\n\u003e\u003e\u003e Thanks for your time.\n\u003e\u003e\u003e\n\u003e\u003e\u003e\n\u003e\u003e\u003e\n\u003e\u003e\u003e\n\u003e\u003e\u003e\n\u003e\u003e\u003e\n\u003e\u003e\u003e ------------------------------------------------------------------------------\n\u003e\u003e\u003e Learn Graph Databases - Download FREE O'Reilly Book\n\u003e\u003e\u003e \"Graph Databases\" is the definitive new guide to graph databases and\n\u003e\u003e\u003e their\n\u003e\u003e\u003e applications. Written by three acclaimed leaders in the field,\n\u003e\u003e\u003e this first edition is now available. Download your free book today!\n\u003e\u003e\u003e http://p.sf.net/sfu/NeoTech\n\u003e\u003e\u003e _______________________________________________\n\u003e\u003e\u003e Bitcoin-development mailing list\n\u003e\u003e\u003e Bitcoin-development at lists.sourceforge.net\n\u003e\u003e\u003e https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bitcoin-development\n\u003e\u003e\u003e\n\u003e\u003e\n\u003e\n\u003e\n\u003e ------------------------------------------------------------------------------\n\u003e Learn Graph Databases - Download FREE O'Reilly Book\n\u003e \"Graph Databases\" is the definitive new guide to graph databases and their\n\u003e applications. Written by three acclaimed leaders in the field,\n\u003e this first edition is now available. Download your free book today!\n\u003e http://p.sf.net/sfu/NeoTech\n\u003e _______________________________________________\n\u003e Bitcoin-development mailing list\n\u003e Bitcoin-development at lists.sourceforge.net\n\u003e https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bitcoin-development\n\u003e",
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